Qantas moves to undercut AN-II
Sep 30, 2001, 11:08 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Melbourne, Vic., Australia.
Programs: QF Platinum One (LTG), UA Plat IHG Plat
Posts: 5,836
Qantas moves to undercut AN-II
$88 one way fares MEL-SYD.
Dixon is sticking the knife in, and moving it around, and laughing as he does it.
------------------
RichardMEL, UA 1K
A Star Alliance Member.
Supporting Ansett-II: Flying for Australia
Dixon is sticking the knife in, and moving it around, and laughing as he does it.
------------------
RichardMEL, UA 1K
A Star Alliance Member.
Supporting Ansett-II: Flying for Australia
Oct 1, 2001, 7:41 am
#2
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 371
I hope the Australian public see this one for what it's worth, one of the most unAustralian things I've ever seen. Dixon has claimed to 'not set out to destroy Ansett'.
Whatever!
There could be a severe backlash if the ACCC allows this to go through. Politically, if Howard doesn't say anything about it, he might be in hot water, with the number of jobs likely to be lost.
I think my business is going to other carriers, I'll drive for an Australian holiday thank you very much and fly foreign airlines if QF wants to play tough man. I'm voting with my dollar.
Dixon knows he's playing a risky game here, if AN matches, the Aussie public may see through it and go ahead and book Ansett in reaction. I hope (and pray) that this will happen.
Regards,
Clement
Whatever!
There could be a severe backlash if the ACCC allows this to go through. Politically, if Howard doesn't say anything about it, he might be in hot water, with the number of jobs likely to be lost.
I think my business is going to other carriers, I'll drive for an Australian holiday thank you very much and fly foreign airlines if QF wants to play tough man. I'm voting with my dollar.
Dixon knows he's playing a risky game here, if AN matches, the Aussie public may see through it and go ahead and book Ansett in reaction. I hope (and pray) that this will happen.
Regards,
Clement
Oct 1, 2001, 7:03 pm
#3
In Memoriam
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Katoomba (Blue Mountains)
Programs: Mucci
Posts: 8,083
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Clement Lowe:
I think my business is going to other carriers, I'll drive for an Australian holiday thank you very much</font>
I think my business is going to other carriers, I'll drive for an Australian holiday thank you very much</font>
Dave
Oct 1, 2001, 7:09 pm
#4
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 657
One more reason to fly AN.
Does the Administrator still need to keep QF on side, or can they put out a jingoistic line criticising QF's use of AC763s?
Cheers,
Justin
Does the Administrator still need to keep QF on side, or can they put out a jingoistic line criticising QF's use of AC763s?
Cheers,
Justin
Oct 2, 2001, 12:37 am
#5
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: SYD, GOT
Programs: BA GGL; SK EBG; QF LTG; Hilton Diamond, A-Club Platinum, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 2,719
$88 fares and leasing from Ar Canada rather than Ansett adminstrators. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
Of course te most underhand thing Dixon did was the memo to Howard in late June that AN was back to profiability and not to believe NZ's figures that they were loosing $18 million a week!
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
Mark
Of course te most underhand thing Dixon did was the memo to Howard in late June that AN was back to profiability and not to believe NZ's figures that they were loosing $18 million a week!
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
Mark
Oct 2, 2001, 4:03 am
#6
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia / Tallahassee, Florida, USA / QF Club; QF-Silver; OW-Ruby; AN; DL-Blue.
Posts: 289
It does look a bit off when QF are doing the AirCanada leases now, but it seems also DJ has failed to secure a lease deal of the administrators. So obviously there are some problems which are characterising the industry at the moment, not only QF wanting to secure its position. Lets be realistic, QF can 'live' with a 20% market share AN quite comfortably, especially if AN2 doesnt play the corporate market. lets not get into left wing conspiracy theories here.
Oct 2, 2001, 7:24 am
#7
Join Date: Jan 2001
Programs: QF Bronze
Posts: 264
And people complained when Qantas did not have cheap fares available after the Ansett collapse. Now they do they are undercutting Ansett. You cant have it both ways!
Oct 2, 2001, 11:39 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Melbourne, Vic., Australia.
Programs: QF Platinum One (LTG), UA Plat IHG Plat
Posts: 5,836
I don't recall anyone complaining that there were no cheap fares after AN colapsed. I complained at being charged full-Y on MEL-SYD when a 744 ended up with 162 pax on it, but that's a different issue to a general "cheap fares" thing.
The fact is that by undercutting AN-II QF is really saying "We're dominant. We have the capacity. We can bleed you dry over this. Go to hell" to Ansett (and incidently, DJ). In other words they are abusing their market stranglehold, while at the same time HonestGeoff(tm) claims to not be trying to crush Ansett-II. Seems to me QF can't have it both ways, either.
Same thing happened in Canada, too.
------------------
RichardMEL, UA 1K
A Star Alliance Member.
The fact is that by undercutting AN-II QF is really saying "We're dominant. We have the capacity. We can bleed you dry over this. Go to hell" to Ansett (and incidently, DJ). In other words they are abusing their market stranglehold, while at the same time HonestGeoff(tm) claims to not be trying to crush Ansett-II. Seems to me QF can't have it both ways, either.
Same thing happened in Canada, too.
------------------
RichardMEL, UA 1K
A Star Alliance Member.
Oct 2, 2001, 11:42 pm
#9
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: MEL
Programs: QF Platypus UA PE MM HH Diamond
Posts: 538
Let's be fair in this whole debate.
Qantas did a good job moving AN ticketed pax for nothing in the first few days, and their staff worked under great pressure.
Now we have the problem of AN tickets that were paid for in cash or by ff points -- and are accepted by Star partners internationally, but by absolutely no-one flying within Australia.
May I suggest that AN-2 would gain a great deal of goodwill, at next to no cost to themselves, to honour those tix on a space-available basis. The seats are empty, the water is free, why not?
Koala
Qantas did a good job moving AN ticketed pax for nothing in the first few days, and their staff worked under great pressure.
Now we have the problem of AN tickets that were paid for in cash or by ff points -- and are accepted by Star partners internationally, but by absolutely no-one flying within Australia.
May I suggest that AN-2 would gain a great deal of goodwill, at next to no cost to themselves, to honour those tix on a space-available basis. The seats are empty, the water is free, why not?
Koala
Oct 3, 2001, 3:24 am
#10
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 657
Err,
They are - returning stranded passengers. I'll say that AN hasn't said much about it though.
See "Stranded Ansett passengers who had already commenced their journey prior to the company entering voluntary administration, will be able to return free (subject to available space)."
Other passengers with existing AN I tickets pay the $99 fare, without the conditions.
Cheers,
Justin
They are - returning stranded passengers. I'll say that AN hasn't said much about it though.
See "Stranded Ansett passengers who had already commenced their journey prior to the company entering voluntary administration, will be able to return free (subject to available space)."
Other passengers with existing AN I tickets pay the $99 fare, without the conditions.
Cheers,
Justin
Oct 4, 2001, 12:00 am
#11
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia / Tallahassee, Florida, USA / QF Club; QF-Silver; OW-Ruby; AN; DL-Blue.
Posts: 289
Richard, i cant recall you having a whinge about the Canada situation, probably because it was a *A member taking over a OW member, so it didnt bother you that much. After all, you did once say 'its the end of the oneworld as we know it'. but it seems *A has excelled in being the first alliance to have a member face backruptcy.
Im no QF executive, but if i was i would not have any prob with a 15-20% AN competing mainly with DJ. After all, QF have the corp market in the bag for the next 10 years easily and that has nothing to do with cheap seats. Just get used to the facts, this is a tough industry and Dixon has a responsibility to QF, not AN2 or anyone else.
Im no QF executive, but if i was i would not have any prob with a 15-20% AN competing mainly with DJ. After all, QF have the corp market in the bag for the next 10 years easily and that has nothing to do with cheap seats. Just get used to the facts, this is a tough industry and Dixon has a responsibility to QF, not AN2 or anyone else.
Oct 4, 2001, 12:28 am
#12
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: SYD, GOT
Programs: BA GGL; SK EBG; QF LTG; Hilton Diamond, A-Club Platinum, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 2,719
On top of QF undercutting AN, leasing planes from AC, now they have pulled another sneaky.
They have recalled the 737s in NZ and replaced them with leased planes from Air Pacific, for QF services in NZ.
So now we have AC aircraft flying across the tasman, Air Pacific flying in NZ, just so QF can keep their promise of saying the are help ing AN by not leasing from overseas! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
Just so they can avoid leasing planes from AN and doing the decent thing.
And in Jan QF will buy NZ for a song. nd Geoof says he is not that clever. In 3 months he has pulled off;
1. 80% of domestic airtravel
2. No competition in Australia, NZ and transtasman
3. Reduced transpacific competition
4. Purchase of NZ.
Mr Geoff "AN has returned to profitability" Dixon should win an award for that strategy!
Qantas: Bury ansett all the way! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
Mark
They have recalled the 737s in NZ and replaced them with leased planes from Air Pacific, for QF services in NZ.
So now we have AC aircraft flying across the tasman, Air Pacific flying in NZ, just so QF can keep their promise of saying the are help ing AN by not leasing from overseas! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
Just so they can avoid leasing planes from AN and doing the decent thing.
And in Jan QF will buy NZ for a song. nd Geoof says he is not that clever. In 3 months he has pulled off;
1. 80% of domestic airtravel
2. No competition in Australia, NZ and transtasman
3. Reduced transpacific competition
4. Purchase of NZ.
Mr Geoff "AN has returned to profitability" Dixon should win an award for that strategy!
Qantas: Bury ansett all the way! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
Mark
Oct 4, 2001, 1:39 am
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Melbourne, Vic., Australia.
Programs: QF Platinum One (LTG), UA Plat IHG Plat
Posts: 5,836
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Skystar:
Err,
Other passengers with existing AN I tickets pay the $99 fare, without the conditions.
</font>
Err,
Other passengers with existing AN I tickets pay the $99 fare, without the conditions.
</font>
Perhaps you should amend that to suggest that pax with AN-1 tix would be _offered_ the discounted fares on _some services_ subject to availability, which sure sounds like conditions to me. When I was told my oly option for an "Ansett special assistance fare" was in the middle of the afternoon or 7am the day before I needed to fly it was a joke of the highest order.
------------------
RichardMEL, UA 1K
A Star Alliance Member.
Oct 4, 2001, 1:46 am
#14
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 657
Richard,
I'm referring to Ansett, not Qantas, you realise, and I take it you're doing the reverse http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
AN doesn't have any $333.74 fares - its full Y's aren't that high OW.
Cheers,
Justin
I'm referring to Ansett, not Qantas, you realise, and I take it you're doing the reverse http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
AN doesn't have any $333.74 fares - its full Y's aren't that high OW.
Cheers,
Justin
Oct 4, 2001, 3:19 am
#15
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: MEL
Programs: QF Platypus UA PE MM HH Diamond
Posts: 538
Hey -- go easy on the a puts knife into b routine, and lets solve some problems for pax.
What I am suggesting is that AN-2 consider honouring AN tix for journeys that have not yet been commenced. Tix bought with cash or ff points for domestic travel presently are not honoured by anyone. However, if issued for an international flight they are being honoured by Star partners & MH, where that particular airline is designated on the original tix.
How about it, AN-2! Allowing us to fly space available should not hurt the bottom line at all. Koala
What I am suggesting is that AN-2 consider honouring AN tix for journeys that have not yet been commenced. Tix bought with cash or ff points for domestic travel presently are not honoured by anyone. However, if issued for an international flight they are being honoured by Star partners & MH, where that particular airline is designated on the original tix.
How about it, AN-2! Allowing us to fly space available should not hurt the bottom line at all. Koala
