100 point minimum
 

I didn't see any posts on this, so I don't know how long it's been on the site, but, from AGR's Program News link,

That's over 10 points per dollar for my wife's common route. And for people commuting over the hump (SCZ-SJC), it's 25 points/dollar (or nearly 28 if a AAA member)!

200 points for train plus bus?
 

I'm wondering whether the 100-point minimum will apply to Amtrak Thruway bus segments separately from connecting train segments...i.e. whether a trip from SAC to SFC will provide 200 points....100 for the train SAC-EMY, and 100 for the Bay Bridge bus EMY-SFC.

Typically each ticket segment is identified individually on AGR's statement.

I asked about this when I spoke with AMTRAK to book an award ticket last month. The rep replied: "It is my understanding that it will be 100 per segment (emphasis hers)."

That would be correct. Any thruway bus is considered one segment along with the train that connects to the bus. If you look at your tickets for a bus/train connection they'll both show the same price on the stub & ticket.

If you know where to look for the breakdown on the main ticket, then you can see how Amtrak allocates the fare, but they still do consider it to be one segment.

Good deal! Most of my Amtrak segments only cost $10-25 anyway, so this will definitely be a boost.

Most of my tickets are in the $3.40-$7 range, so this is great! I wonder if this also applies to Select tier qualification...

My guess would be, Yes.

After all this is not a bonus, simply a minimum standard number of points that can be earned for a trip. Perhaps Amtrak may come to regret this if too many people hit select because of it, but for the time being take advantage of it.

Perhaps AMTRAK is trying to attract regular riders besides the [high-rolling] NEC/Acela crowd? Select is still enough of a challenge for other routes, even with the new minimum, to be concerned about "dilution."

That's still only 200 for a typical roundtrip outside of the NEC, and Amtrak consistently does jsut about anything to get you on the non-NEC trains (hot deals, etc.). Still doubt I'll come close to select with this, but it's a nice boost.

Who are you calling High Rollers? AMTRAK tickets are as cheap as the bus on my NEC route. Even the Acela is inexpensive using a corporate discount. I am convinced that AMTRAK loses money on all routes possibly including NYP-WAS. I try to spend ten bucks in the cafeteria car each time so they get some kind of incremental revenue.

I don't understand how AMTRAK can give away points the way they do. I'm earning something like a free ticket every month.

Well, this all depends on where you live and how you work your booking. For example, though I do most of my Amtrak travel in the NEC, I'm familiar with the Capitol Corridor in CA. So I could book a multi-city as follows:

EMY - BKY
BKY - RIC
RIC - BKY
BKY - EMY

Total cost = $11.00, yields 400 points towards Select/Select+ status. That means, I could hypothetically reach Select for $137.50 or Select+ for $275. Even utilising my corporate rates between WAS and the MET/NWK/NYP on Acela, the cost of reaching Select would be $1050 and Select+ $2100. Hardly comparable and you spend much more time on the train in the latter than the former.

The cheapest way for the NEC for me, again hypothetically would be off-peak fares between WAS and BOS booked multi-city style with a stop in NYC. So...

WAS - NYP
NYP - BOS
BOS - NYP
NYP - WAS

Total cost = $282 (no corp discount), yields 2000 points. I would reach Select+ for $1410. Again, no comparison to the Capitol Corridor. Of course, I can't always travel on off-peak times and using my cache of upgrades significantly reduces the time and cost to reach Select+.


Cheers.

I called and asked about the 100 point minimum apply to Select status and was answer is YES. :D All I need are 25 round trips @ $8.00 each...

100 Select Points it is!
 

My recent trip just posted showing 100 Select Points for the year. I had registered for the 5th anniversary bonus after traveling, but before posting; it was there, too!

In one sense, I make out worse under the new rule: previously I had gotten extra points for the extra fare to biz class, and now both biz and coach get a flat 100 points (SEA - PDX). Still, 100 is double what I had been getting.

fastflyer: I don't have any corp discounts; the one time I took Acela, it seemed mighty pricey to me - one way (shoulder fare I think?) cost more than a round-trip off-peak on DL Shuttle.
As for buying food, the seat assignment card for Cascades biz pax doubles as a $3 credit, so they do a pretty brisk business. The lasagna (which had been touted by another passenger) seem kinda skimpy to me, but the Cuban sandwich was great - especially as AMTRAK provides packets of horseradish.

Pointsscrounger,

My first 100 mile segment also just posted (along with the 500 point bonus). However, I didn't get the 25% Select bonus. And my select status doesn't appear on amtrakguestrewards. Did you get the 25% bonus? Is select status indicated?

Thanks

I am Select and got 100 points + 25 point bonus on a $10 ticket.

As for the "high rollers" in the NEC - I guess I'm one of those so-called high rollers, accruing over 15,000 points in 2004. I certainly don't feel the love. Especially when the trains are late pretty often.

Amtrak does, in fact, make money on the Acela routes. Especially since they're usually near sold out, despite the ticket price rising each year since it's introduction in 2000. It's a shame that they're way too overpowered for the infrastructure they're wedged into.

I think that Amtrak makes money if someone uses the AGR Mastercard or at least signs up for one. I wonder if that source of revenue helps to pay for redeemed awards. Also I think Amtrak does well on Acela sales revenue wise since that seem to charge more than the airlines. Afterall, no one is in direct competiion with Amtrak on the Northeast corridor. The airports are not the same quick option that they used to be. Acela has powerports and many of the shuttle planes do not and all Acela seating is business class or first class.

I do not know that AMTRAK does not make money on NYP-WAS, but I would be surprised if they do. When I say making money, I mean without the federal subsidy -- that the revenue on the line covers the expenses on the line. I would be very interested to see any statistics on this. And I certainly do not have any definitive proof either way; this is just my back-of-the-envelope suspicion.

Full fare DL shuttle (also US) is approx. $200 each way in Y. Full fare on ACELA is about $150 each way NYP-WAS. Corporate discounts can cut these numbers in half.

But then, remember, that AMTRAK runs non-ACELA service on the same tracks. And those prices are a fraction of the ACELA fares. My frequent commute NYP-HFD costs something like $30 each way -- a distance of 125 miles. We run a bit slower than the ACELA, but the schedule doesn't really permit me to take the ACELA in any case. And I get there in 2.5 hours. Perhaps the ACELA could shave off 15 minutes. (For this routing there is still the diesel connection on the Springfield spur).

I am certainly glad for the competition with the airlines. But I doubt anyone makes a killing anymore on these routes. That said, it is nice to have the choice, especially when we have bad weather.

Amtrak Acela/Metroliner is Profitable
 

Amtrak essentially covers its operating costs (or even makes a profit) from fares on the premium NEC services. This does not include capital costs, which of course are extensive.

If one looks at the simple picture, Amtrak does indeed make money off of both the Acela Express trains and the Metroliner service. Acela earned 7 million in Sept '04 and the Metroliner earned 300K for the same month. YTD for fiscal '04 (Oct 03 – Sept 04) the numbers were 65.9M and 5.2M respectively. Regional service however lost 60.5M YTD, wiping out most of the above profit.

This info is based upon the latest numbers, available from Amtrak here. Flip to pages 78 & 79 of the report. Note: You'll need Adobe Acrobat 5.0 or higher to view the report.

Now to further clarify those numbers, by simple picture, I mean operating expenses directly attributed to those respective services. Things like crew costs, maintenance of trains, food services onboard, power to run the trains, and such.

Those profit numbers however don't include capital expenses, things like depreciation expenses on the trains, interest on the loans to buy the trains, station personnel & building repairs and costs, track repairs, catenary repairs, signal repairs, and general overhead expenses like the reservation system and the executive offices.

Do the numbers for Regional service refer to what I think they mean: the non-Acela and non-Metroliner services between Boston/ Springfield and Norfolk, including points in between like NYC, Philadelphia, and Washington?

If I understand the Amtrak lingo correctly, Regional service does NOT include the DownEaster nor the Empire Services, nor the Keystone Services, nor the Vermont Services.

How do the local trains lose almost as much money as the express trains are making in profit?

I am actually curious, because the locals I take are usually rather full. If they are losing all of the profit that the Acelas are pulling in, why not cut some local services, like Tuesday-Thursday services, for example?

Premium vs. Conventional
 

The fares on the NEC Regional Trains (also commonly called "conventional" trains) are much lower, and thus those operations do not pull in the same yield as the premium-priced services.

Now, Downeaster and Keystone are supported by Maine and Pennsylvania, respectively. With these state support payments, it can roughly be said that Amtrak as an entity does not lose much money on those types of services.

That is correct.

Also correct.

Well the operating costs are basically the same for the regional services as they are for the premium service. In fact they might even be a little higher, since some of the regional trains require a change from electric engines to diesel engines. Yet the fares for a regional train are often half what they are for the premium trains. In some cases, the regional fares are even less than half the premium fares.

Cutting service doesn't necessarily save money. First some of the station and yard crews would still need to be there regardless of how many trains arrive & depart. Secondly many of the regionals provide connections for passengers traveling on long distance trains. Without the regionals, you'd loose those passengers and their revenue on the LD trains.

Additionally the loss of the regionals would diminish Amtrak's buying power when it comes to food supplies. Finally, even though it's not considered part of operations, you'd still need to maintain the tracks, signals, and overhead wires.

They can't raise the fares, without loosing business to the Airlines and the buses. So Amtrak incurrs a loss, while still providing an essential service.