Moynihan Train Hall [Master Thread]
#61
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Here's a transit researcher explaining that the greater distance from the subway is one of the failures of the train hall. This is an older article but on transit Twitter, this has been a hot topic this week, and it's pretty universally acknowledged that the move west is a problem in that most NY'ers travel by subway. Not just the 7th Avenue line but many people are also getting there via the Herald Square stop a block further east (NRQ/BDF) https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...d-penn-station
For me personally? I cannot switch my subway line so as I said I will in all probability continue to board from the old Penn, and I'll be sorry to miss out on the shiny new station. I usually arrive about 20-25 minutes before the train (no flexibility on that one) and leaving the station and going across the street and to wherever the Lounge is (I am going to bet that adds 5 minutes, not 30 seconds, forget whatever you're carrying) just isn't worth it to get a track number. Not to mention, all of that and you end up standing in line, even if you're allowed to board first. If there's a delay, though, I'll be heading over!
For me personally? I cannot switch my subway line so as I said I will in all probability continue to board from the old Penn, and I'll be sorry to miss out on the shiny new station. I usually arrive about 20-25 minutes before the train (no flexibility on that one) and leaving the station and going across the street and to wherever the Lounge is (I am going to bet that adds 5 minutes, not 30 seconds, forget whatever you're carrying) just isn't worth it to get a track number. Not to mention, all of that and you end up standing in line, even if you're allowed to board first. If there's a delay, though, I'll be heading over!
It doesn't sound like you are actually interested in the food I enjoy but in the interest of anyone else who is reading this, the poke bowls at Wasabi, the fried chicken sandwich at Shake Shack (the app makes it a quick grab-and-go), or when I am in a total mad dash to make the train, a hot dog at one of the combo places further down the concourse are all my go-to substitutes for the Amtrak cafe car. If I were coming from the 8th Ave side I'd probably go upstairs and grab a slice from that place near Krispy Kreme or a felafel platter from Chickpea.
http://nypizzasuprema.com/
Last edited by Blumie; Jan 7, 2021 at 12:26 pm
#62
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Look, I'm not arguing about whether the subways are or not well located relative to the new station, all I'm saying that the new station is directly across the street from the old station. (And while my 30-second estimate may be hyperbolically low, I'm guessing it's a lot closer than your 5-minute estimate. Of course it depends how long one has to wait for the light at 8th Avenue. )
#63
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For pizza on the 8th Avenue side, I highly recommend Pizza Suprema, at 8th Avenue and 31st St.
New York Pizza Suprema
New York Pizza Suprema
Second the recommendation wherever you are in Penn Station if you 30 minutes and want a slice of pizza its worth leaving the station to grab a slice here.
#64
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One does not need to cross 8th Avenue. At the northeast corner of Moynahan is an escalator down to the NYP west side concourse. At the bottom of the escalator, turn left, go past track 21, turn right. Go down the ramp, past the 8th Avenue subway (A/C/E), then up the ramp into the NYP 33rd street concourse, which leads to the IRT (1/2/3). It's all done out of the elements.
#65
Join Date: Dec 2014
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Took the Acela from BOS to NYP this weekend and detoured to check out the new train hall — agree that it's way more pleasant than what it's replacing, but its location is still fairly impractical (especially for anyone coming from / going to the 1/2/3). Some pictures below:
Also oddly enough my train arrived (early) on Track 21 and so everyone ended up exiting back into the old concourse, and when I checked the Amtrak displays it was showing the train (to WAS) as delayed with no track number (and looks like it eventually left 20 min late), so was wondering if the train had to switch tracks as well (especially since there are no signs in the new train hall to 17 - 21) — the NEC twitter said "dispatching delay"
Also oddly enough my train arrived (early) on Track 21 and so everyone ended up exiting back into the old concourse, and when I checked the Amtrak displays it was showing the train (to WAS) as delayed with no track number (and looks like it eventually left 20 min late), so was wondering if the train had to switch tracks as well (especially since there are no signs in the new train hall to 17 - 21) — the NEC twitter said "dispatching delay"
Last edited by truncated; Jan 14, 2021 at 6:44 pm
#66
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Also oddly enough my train arrived (early) on Track 21 and so everyone ended up exiting back into the old concourse, and when I checked the Amtrak displays it was showing the train as delayed with no track number (and looks like it eventually left 20 min late), so was wondering if the train had to switch tracks as well (especially since there are no signs in the new train hall to 17 - 21) — the NEC twitter said "dispatching delay"
#67
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There's one trip each way that's BOS-NYP (2173), NYP-BOS (2166) so thru to WAS is not an issue. But I'm surprised there's catenary over Track 21 -- I would have thought it's third rail only for LIRR.
#68
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Ah this was 2251 continuing to WAS so it was definitely an issue — I do wonder how they eventually reversed the train and switched platforms. No clue as to the catenary question but I guess if the Acela managed to make it onto the track there must be catenary over 21 (and presumably 20 as well) — maybe it was added for when Metro-North eventually arrives at NYP?
#69
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Ah this was 2251 continuing to WAS so it was definitely an issue — I do wonder how they eventually reversed the train and switched platforms. No clue as to the catenary question but I guess if the Acela managed to make it onto the track there must be catenary over 21 (and presumably 20 as well) — maybe it was added for when Metro-North eventually arrives at NYP?
#70
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Washington DC
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Both the NY Times and the Wall St J have well-written and lavishly illustrated articles in today's print editions -- also online, but probably behind a paywall (I would provide a link, but that may only work for my accounts).
The NYT does note that the Moynihan only solves part of a problem -- the Gateway project (Hudson River tunnels) remains to be done, as does improvements for NJ Transit, such as a new "Penn South." Interesting proposal to demolish the Amtrak mezzanine in the old station and thus raise the low ceiling on the lower level to make LIRR a real open train station.
The WSJ notes, as have previous postings here, the difficulty of actually getting from one station to the other without going outside. "I ... began searching for the passage to the Moynihan Train Hall [from Penn Station]. As it happens, there is none; trains can move in a straight line between the two buildings but you cannot. It takes some time to find the meek arrow that sends you outside where you must make your way across Eighth Avenue. In fact, one can get there without going outside, by negotiating the concourse of the Long Island Rail Road, although the path is so labyrinthine that you are as likely to find the Minotaur as Moynihan Hall."
WSJ continues, "Moynihan Hall is not organically integrated within the tangled knot of the lines of Amtrak, the LIRR, and NJ Transit, a formless and piecemeal accretion a century in the making. Until it is (which seems far in the future, despite countless visionary proposals), the hall will remain an orphan."
I recommend reading both articles, as they are a useful reminder of the need for intermodality, or the ability to readily transfer from one transportation mode to another. Moynihan, it seems, is good for pedestrians or people coming by taxi or Uber, but less good for people using other means of transportation (subway, commuter train) to travel to/from the train station. And, no, walking down a long platform to exit in the old Penn Station is not a solution as it means that one is not even using Moynihan, which sort of defeats the purpose of building it. Despite these limitations, once the 3-day quarantine lifts in NY, I look forward to exploring Moynihan!
The NYT does note that the Moynihan only solves part of a problem -- the Gateway project (Hudson River tunnels) remains to be done, as does improvements for NJ Transit, such as a new "Penn South." Interesting proposal to demolish the Amtrak mezzanine in the old station and thus raise the low ceiling on the lower level to make LIRR a real open train station.
The WSJ notes, as have previous postings here, the difficulty of actually getting from one station to the other without going outside. "I ... began searching for the passage to the Moynihan Train Hall [from Penn Station]. As it happens, there is none; trains can move in a straight line between the two buildings but you cannot. It takes some time to find the meek arrow that sends you outside where you must make your way across Eighth Avenue. In fact, one can get there without going outside, by negotiating the concourse of the Long Island Rail Road, although the path is so labyrinthine that you are as likely to find the Minotaur as Moynihan Hall."
WSJ continues, "Moynihan Hall is not organically integrated within the tangled knot of the lines of Amtrak, the LIRR, and NJ Transit, a formless and piecemeal accretion a century in the making. Until it is (which seems far in the future, despite countless visionary proposals), the hall will remain an orphan."
I recommend reading both articles, as they are a useful reminder of the need for intermodality, or the ability to readily transfer from one transportation mode to another. Moynihan, it seems, is good for pedestrians or people coming by taxi or Uber, but less good for people using other means of transportation (subway, commuter train) to travel to/from the train station. And, no, walking down a long platform to exit in the old Penn Station is not a solution as it means that one is not even using Moynihan, which sort of defeats the purpose of building it. Despite these limitations, once the 3-day quarantine lifts in NY, I look forward to exploring Moynihan!
#71
Join Date: Apr 2015
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These are all great points regarding utility of Moynihan as an efficient transit hub. What I am hopeful for is that it will become a desirable eating/drinking/shopping/socializing/meeting destination that is reasonably convenient to reach via foot, surface vehicle, subway, Amtrak, LIRR, NJT, and eventually MNR. It is a truly beautiful space.
#72
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Join Date: Sep 2019
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The Metropolitan Lounge on the second floor on the south end of the building is beautiful--certainly as good as any airport lounge. Moynihan is also very nice. When I boarded a train at Moynihan, there was no "line up and wait" nonsense, either; passengers just went down the escalator to the track, without having to pointlessly wait in a line. A+, Amtrak!
#74
Join Date: Apr 2015
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It really is so gorgeous!!! Historically, I have mixed & matched taking Amtrak or Metro North between NYC and New Haven several times per week. Once I get back to regular travel, having this station instead of Penn Station is going to definitely skew my pattern towards Amtrak!
#75
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 311
I visited today. It's really beautiful, the sort of train station NY should have. You really can't help but stand there and absorb it, it's stunning and such a change. The Metropolitan Lounge was, as reported, like an airline lounge although hard to truly compare with no food. Speaking of, I brought in a bag of purchased food from Penn Station and none of the reps said a thing, not even Angry Rep. Maybe because I had no open beverage?
I had a lot of time today before my train so could check it out but I don't know that I'll do it often, not even because once my work returns in earnest I'll have too little time to make the trek but really because without the early downstairs boarding you arrive on the front end of the train at the same time people who have waited at the main Penn Station are descending at the other end, whether it's from upstairs or downstairs I don't know. But I could see the quiet car filling up as I had to walk the entire length of the train to get there. Not something I'll do again, I don't think. We'll see if the food hall ends up with any really great places because that might tempt me back if I can swing it.
I had a lot of time today before my train so could check it out but I don't know that I'll do it often, not even because once my work returns in earnest I'll have too little time to make the trek but really because without the early downstairs boarding you arrive on the front end of the train at the same time people who have waited at the main Penn Station are descending at the other end, whether it's from upstairs or downstairs I don't know. But I could see the quiet car filling up as I had to walk the entire length of the train to get there. Not something I'll do again, I don't think. We'll see if the food hall ends up with any really great places because that might tempt me back if I can swing it.