Dining choices Lake Shore and Capital Limited
May 3, 2018, 7:50 pm
#16
In Memoriam
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New York, NY, USA
Programs: HH Diamond, Amtrak Exec
Posts: 3,262
Here's a simple question about NARP. If they did a study and it in fact honestly revealed that Amtrak needed to cancel a long distance train, would they ever release it?
I think we all know the answer is "no". That's why Antrak is in the train business and NARP is in the backseat driving business.
I think we all know the answer is "no". That's why Antrak is in the train business and NARP is in the backseat driving business.
And after all that, there was still enough money left over to slightly reduce the cost per passenger mile of the railfares for everyone on board. In other words, without sleepers, the subsidy per passenger mile would have been slightly higher than it was with sleepers. We're not talking about a big number here, at least in passenger miles, it like a few hundredths of a penny. But still, it lowered the overall subsidy per pax mile for the LD trains.
I lost track of that paper a few years back when NARP revamped their website, but I'd bet its still up there someplace.
May 16, 2018, 8:24 am
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: DTW/FNT
Programs: Delta (nee NW), Hilton Diamond. IHG (PT)
Posts: 4,823
The new and 'improved' menu is available at
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/p...-Menu-0518.pdf
Quotes because the improvements speak for themselves !!!!
Bob H
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/p...-Menu-0518.pdf
Quotes because the improvements speak for themselves !!!!
Bob H
Jun 9, 2018, 1:02 am
#19
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: California
Programs: AA Advantage Gold, Rapid Rewards A list, Sky Miles Gold Medallion, Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 403
As much as I hate to see this change it seems better to the Silver Star version of lounge car for everyone and by the way we will run out before we get to the end of the line.
It it is disappointing to see this type of cut, I’ll be curious to see what pictures of the actual meals look like. A long distance train without a dining car is not one I would be inclined to take particularly the farther West you go with longer routes.
It it is disappointing to see this type of cut, I’ll be curious to see what pictures of the actual meals look like. A long distance train without a dining car is not one I would be inclined to take particularly the farther West you go with longer routes.
Jun 9, 2018, 10:20 am
#20
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: flyover country
Posts: 2,435
The change from a dining car to boxed meals applies only to the Lake Shore Limited and the Capitol Limited. The western routes are not affected, as far as I have heard.
Jun 9, 2018, 10:50 am
#21
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: California
Programs: AA Advantage Gold, Rapid Rewards A list, Sky Miles Gold Medallion, Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 403
Hopefully it stays this way, but my fear is it will start rolling out to the other 1 night routes.
Jun 9, 2018, 1:04 pm
#22
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: CMH/CVG
Programs: Marriott, Southwest, American, Delta, Amtrak,Multiple others
Posts: 564
I took the Cardinal to DC in early May, and the 'dining' car staff indicated that their dining options will also be changing in the near future. I've had very mixed meal experiences on the Cardinal depending on who was working that train, so a boxed meal may be an improvement. The best meal we had on our trip was my wife's Quinoa salad at lunch.
Jun 13, 2018, 10:55 am
#24
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Hilton Diamond
Posts: 4,252
Yea, I have ridden that a lot and its a route prone to issues because its a more limited kitchen and frankly it seems like whatever they use to heat meals is highly unreliable. I would love a beef tenderloin salad in lieu of most of my Cardinal dinners. I do agree with an earlier poster that having this sort of gourmet boxed meal and a drink is much more preferable than the nothing option on the Silver Star
Jun 15, 2018, 9:37 pm
#25
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: California
Programs: AA Advantage Gold, Rapid Rewards A list, Sky Miles Gold Medallion, Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 403
Just got off the Builder. Crew mentioned that corporate is looking at doing boxed meals system wide and encouraged us to write in and share our thoughts which I intend to do, not that it will have much impact.
A table mate rode on the Capital Limited. They reported dinner was basically 3 different pitiful salads and breakfast was continental breakfast high in sugar. Would like to see pictures from anyone who had risen on the Cap or Lake Shore
A table mate rode on the Capital Limited. They reported dinner was basically 3 different pitiful salads and breakfast was continental breakfast high in sugar. Would like to see pictures from anyone who had risen on the Cap or Lake Shore
Jun 16, 2018, 8:24 am
#26
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: flyover country
Posts: 2,435
Amtrak's New "Fresh Choices" Dining on CL & LSL - Page 55 - Amtrak Rail Discussion - Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum
Amtrak's New "Fresh Choices" Dining on CL & LSL - Page 62 - Amtrak Rail Discussion - Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum
Jun 17, 2018, 8:57 pm
#27
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DCA ZWU
Programs: AGR WOH
Posts: 1,785
Photos and nutrition facts are at:
http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com (click LSL)
In other dining news, the cafe menus have been updated on the Northeast Corridor; a similar menu is also now available on the Cap Limited and LSL.
http://blog.amtrak.com/2018/06/new-corridor-cafe-menu/
http://www.amtrakfoodfacts.com (click LSL)
In other dining news, the cafe menus have been updated on the Northeast Corridor; a similar menu is also now available on the Cap Limited and LSL.
http://blog.amtrak.com/2018/06/new-corridor-cafe-menu/
Last edited by paytonc; Jun 17, 2018 at 9:04 pm
Jul 22, 2018, 7:21 pm
#28
Join Date: May 2006
Programs: Amtrak, AA, USA, DL, UA, MW, SWA, MW, AirTran, Priority Club, Marriott, Hilton, Chc Prvlgs, BW
Posts: 101
Here's a simple question about NARP. If they did a study and it in fact honestly revealed that Amtrak needed to cancel a long distance train, would they ever release it?
I think we all know the answer is "no". That's why Antrak is in the train business and NARP is in the backseat driving business.
I think we all know the answer is "no". That's why Antrak is in the train business and NARP is in the backseat driving business.
They have the expertise, not someone claiming the trains are "money losers" and how yucky COLD BOXED LUNCHES are "the future" of passenger rail.
Here's a simple question about NARP. If they did a study and it in fact honestly revealed that Amtrak needed to cancel a long distance train, would they ever release it?
I think we all know the answer is "no". That's why Antrak is in the train business and NARP is in the backseat driving business.
I think we all know the answer is "no". That's why Antrak is in the train business and NARP is in the backseat driving business.
The 15 LD routes do well.
LD ridership is at an all-time high, which means Amtrak has, albeit slowly, reversed the decline in passenger train travel that was occurring in the 1950s and 1960s.
It's amazing the valuable LD routes even survive today.
Think about it.
Amtrak never markets them (or hasn't in 30-40 years).
Amtrak never improves or upgrades them through needed new equipment, new routes, new connections.
You know, the things that successful businesses do, ones that want to better serve their customers and improve their business.
What kind of business keeps things static for DECADES?
The NARP is not a trustworthy organization.
There is plenty of evidence that long distance sleepers are tremendously unprofitable, at least when coupled with free meals in a traditional diner. Now granted it is circumstantial, but it exists. The evidence includes how railroads cut costs in the 1960's, Via Rail Canada's price points, and Amtrak's own actions in what they are trying to cut.
What NARP wants to do is use Hollywood style accounting. They want to misallocate overhead so it gets charged to Acela rather than long distance trains, and use a "passenger mile" measure which favors long distance routes.
Amtrak operates in the real world. In the real world, long distance food and beverage is a huge drain because it involves both ridiculously high logistical costs and high labor costs. And sleepers lose more than coach because the fares don't cover the higher lsbor costs of sleeping car attendants and the additional space.
So as I said, the future is that if we want long distance trains, they can't follow the traditional model. This is a step forward.
There is plenty of evidence that long distance sleepers are tremendously unprofitable, at least when coupled with free meals in a traditional diner. Now granted it is circumstantial, but it exists. The evidence includes how railroads cut costs in the 1960's, Via Rail Canada's price points, and Amtrak's own actions in what they are trying to cut.
What NARP wants to do is use Hollywood style accounting. They want to misallocate overhead so it gets charged to Acela rather than long distance trains, and use a "passenger mile" measure which favors long distance routes.
Amtrak operates in the real world. In the real world, long distance food and beverage is a huge drain because it involves both ridiculously high logistical costs and high labor costs. And sleepers lose more than coach because the fares don't cover the higher lsbor costs of sleeping car attendants and the additional space.
So as I said, the future is that if we want long distance trains, they can't follow the traditional model. This is a step forward.
After all, an article in a rail industry publication years ago analyzed "allocated costs."
In the Southwest Chief, there was a "Penn Station charge."
What?
How in Hades would the SW Chief have any connection to Penn Station?
Amtrak's deceptive answer was, "well, a SW Chief passenger could ride to Penn Station....
Using that faulty logic, one could claim an Acela traveler could use Lamy, NM, or Havre, MT. Right?
I therefore suggest all accounting of the NEC include every.single.LD.route. stations.
Last edited by l etoile; Jul 23, 2018 at 2:51 pm
Jul 30, 2018, 3:11 pm
#29
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
1. The obvious reason Amtrak has done little to improve LD routes is that they have the real numbers and know that increasing ridership would increase Amtrak's losses, not improve its bottom line.
2. I am not vouching for numbers Amtrak puts out to the public. They might be wrong for all sorts of reasons. I am saying that Amtrak, INTERNALLY, knows the real numbers, and when Amtrak makes a business decision the NARP disagrees with (such as cutting meal service on 1 overnight LD trains), that is usually going to be because the Amtrak decisionmakers have to use real numbers whereas the NARP is an advocacy organization that uses all sorts of accounting tricks to further the goals of its membership, which includes a ton of people who love LD trains and want them to be luxurious.
3. Rest in peace AlanB. He was a great moderator.
2. I am not vouching for numbers Amtrak puts out to the public. They might be wrong for all sorts of reasons. I am saying that Amtrak, INTERNALLY, knows the real numbers, and when Amtrak makes a business decision the NARP disagrees with (such as cutting meal service on 1 overnight LD trains), that is usually going to be because the Amtrak decisionmakers have to use real numbers whereas the NARP is an advocacy organization that uses all sorts of accounting tricks to further the goals of its membership, which includes a ton of people who love LD trains and want them to be luxurious.
3. Rest in peace AlanB. He was a great moderator.
Aug 10, 2018, 12:32 am
#30
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
Programs: American Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Silver
Posts: 5,640
I'm thinking about doing a trip on the Lake Shore Limited in a sleeper. I have a few questions about this new dining change.
How many meals are served on the Lake Shore Limited between Boston and Chicago? It departs at ~1PM. Do they serve lunch? I'm assuming that they serve dinner. Do they serve breakfast since the arrival into Chicago is in the morning?
What does the amenity kit look like, and what does it contain?
How many meals are served on the Lake Shore Limited between Boston and Chicago? It departs at ~1PM. Do they serve lunch? I'm assuming that they serve dinner. Do they serve breakfast since the arrival into Chicago is in the morning?
What does the amenity kit look like, and what does it contain?