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Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards

Old Aug 31, 2015, 6:08 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: beltway
Changes to Amtrak Guest Rewards in 2016

Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.

Table of Contents
Earning Status
As in the past, members earn Tier Qualifying Points (TQP) for paid travel at the rate of 2 TQP per dollar. With the 2016 changes, however, AGR has eliminated
  • the 100 TQP minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer TQP), and
  • the Acela "select city pairs" TQP minimums for Business class (formerly 500 TQP) and First class (formerly 750 TQP); see post #83
In addition, AGR now provides new class-of-service TQP bonuses: 25% for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. (As noted below, passengers will also earn redeemable AGR points in the same amount.)

The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same:
  • Select - 5,000 TQP
  • Select Plus - 10,000 TQP
  • Select Executive - 20,000 TQP
Benefits for each status level, including the Tier Bonus on cash fares (see below), remain the same.
Earning AGR Points Redeemable for Travel
Members continue to earn redeemable AGR points for paid travel (except as discussed below in this section) at the rate of 2 points per dollar, plus a new 25% point bonus for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. Sleeper-car tickets do not earn a bonus.

With the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates
  • the 100 point minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer points), and
  • the Acela "select city pairs" minimums for Business class (previously 500 points) and First class (previously 750 points)
In addition to base points, members with status continue to earn Tier Bonus redeemable AGR points (i.e., not TQP) at the same level as in 2015:
  • Select - 25%
  • Select Plus - 50%
  • Select Executive - 100%
As was the case before, members do not earn points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redeeming for Travel
For 2016, redemption rules have changed drastically. AGR has discontinued its fixed-point awards and zone system, transitioning instead to a revenue-based system. Under the new program, the points required for an award ticket--including multi-ride tickets and monthly passes--are, with some exceptions noted below, proportional to the cash price of the ticket.

In general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
  • Minimum award pricing: Regardless of the cash fare, a non-Acela award ticket costs a minimum of 800 AGR points. As a result, using AGR points for such tickets with a cash price under $24 (e.g., LNC-PHL or BWI-WAS) results in lower yields.

    Acela award tickets cost a minimum of 4,000 points. Using AGR points for Acela tickets costing less than $103 results in lower yields.

  • No redemption for Saver awards: Per AGR's FT representative, members cannot redeem points for tickets at the least-expensive Saver rate. For instance, even if a $52 Saver WAS-NYP cash fare is available, points can be used only to purchase tickets at the equivalent of an $86 Value fare or higher (resulting in a yield of 1.75 cents/point at best).

  • Peak travel dates/times: As discussed below under "Blackout Dates," Amtrak has quietly introduced a "peak travel" penalty in which certain high-demand itineraries (not published in advance) will cost 50% or even 100% more points than would normally correspond to the available cash fare.

  • Most discount fares inapplicable: Under the 2016 program, AGR points are redeemable for tickets based only on the Adult or Child price, and not at the equivalent of Senior, AAA, or other discounted fares. (See post #83.)

  • As was the case before, members may not redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Note: Reward tickets booked before 1/24/16 are subject to the new redemption policy if modified or canceled on or after that date.

Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.

Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.

Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.

Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.

Blackout dates eliminated: On the plus side, AGR will eliminate award redemption blackout dates and Acela time-of-day restrictions. When the 2016 changes were announced, AGR claimed that blackout dates were being eliminated. As of January 24, 2016, the AGR website still makes that claim. Unfortunately, it is a lie.

On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
you may find limited availability on peak travel dates or times and it is possible that not every seat will be available for redemption. When redeeming points for trips during peak travel dates and times, some itineraries may be available only to our Select Plus and Select Executive members.
Amtrak quietly added similar language to the website in early February 2016. The website also indicates that the point costs for "peak travel" dates and times may be increased in addition to any increase resulting resulting from a higher cash fare. To date, additional points costs of 50% and 100% have been observed on certain itineraries.

Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.

Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.

No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)

For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
CAUTION: The new policy is worded to imply that reservation "modification" and "cancellation" are treated differently. A "modification" ostensibly triggers a penalty only of "any fare difference returned to member," implying that changing to a more expensive fare should involve no penalty and changing to a less expensive fare should be subject to a penalty only on the refunded points difference.

Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
For complete details on the 2016 change rules, including the special rules for multi-ride tickets and monthly passes, see the AGR website.

Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
Points Expiration
AGR altered its expiration policy, which previously required paid travel once every 36 months. Effective August 27, 2015, any points-earning or redemption activity will reset the 36-month clock. Effective April 2019, points expire after 24 months of inactivity.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015.
Post-Rollout Issues/Unknowns
  • Class-of-service bonuses have been posting initially as non-TQPs, although subsequent data points suggest there is currently a delay of ~12 days in proper crediting.
  • Agents have claimed that any change incurs the 10/20% penalty (up to and including asking for a changed room assignment) on the full value of the ticket, rather than just anything involving a reduction in price being penalized 10/20% on the changed portion

It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
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Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards

Old Nov 30, 2017, 4:22 pm
  #496  
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,135
Originally Posted by hi55us
I agree and the redemption values for the Acela are absolutely horrible. Looking at BOS-NYP for tomorrow, the 5:20 pm Acela is $207, the 5:35 pm Regional is $155 -- a difference of 33%.

But now to look at the points the Acela is 12,110 points (1.7 cpp!) and the regional is 5,348 points (2.9 cpp) -- a difference of of 126%!! Mind you this is not a high demand period or anything else funky, this pricing regularly occurs. Amtrak really needs to get real with it's valuations.
1.7cpp is 2/3 of the baseline 2.56cpp on Acela (thus, a 50% increase in cost), so this is the dreaded "high-demand" premium noted in the wiki.

(Don't ask me how a train 15 minutes later isn't also in high demand.)
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beltway is offline  
Old Dec 3, 2017, 9:18 am
  #497  
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Originally Posted by beltway
(Don't ask me how a train 15 minutes later isn't also in high demand.)
One's an Acela and the other is a Regional. They have different definitions of high demand/low demand.
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Old Dec 3, 2017, 9:48 am
  #498  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Posts: 1,728
Well the regional was sold out with people standing... but I had 2 seats so no harm no foul. Beyond me how Amtrak is determining these "high demand" redemption rates...
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Old Dec 6, 2017, 3:52 pm
  #499  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 6
What happened? Used to be insanely valuable but these days not so much :/
resiroth is offline  
Old Dec 7, 2017, 3:38 pm
  #500  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by resiroth
What happened? Used to be insanely valuable but these days not so much :/
Used to be insanely valuable

That's what happened.

They looked at it.
They said it was insanely valuable.
They changed it, promising some features
Not all those features were implemented.
They misled us about some features.

Ah! Still better than the airlines.Then again, that's not saying a lot.
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Old Feb 15, 2018, 2:14 pm
  #501  
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Amtrak announced in 2015 that Points & Cash redemption was coming. Did I miss that actually happening?
beltway is offline  
Old Feb 15, 2018, 3:00 pm
  #502  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: PSC
Programs: Hilton Diamond/IHG Platinum/DL Plutononium
Posts: 1,728
Amtrak announced a lot of things:

- Buying 10 ride/monthly passes with points
- Points + Cash
- Flat Redemption rate per $
- No Blackout Dates


None of them have really come true... and their Flyertalk rep left...

Last edited by hi55us; Feb 19, 2018 at 7:19 am
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Old Feb 15, 2018, 9:10 pm
  #503  
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Is there an update to transfers to UA?
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Old Feb 16, 2018, 12:45 pm
  #504  
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Originally Posted by UA Fan
Is there an update to transfers to UA?
No
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Old Feb 16, 2018, 8:23 pm
  #505  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 309
Originally Posted by hi55us

- Buying 10 ride/monthly passes with points
Agree on the sentiment and the rest, but you can do this, you just have to call in.
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musicalbox is offline  
Old Feb 17, 2018, 8:25 am
  #506  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Philly suburbs
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards, BOA Travel Visa,
Posts: 56
Unfortunately what was once a great program is no longer so. I have plenty of AGR points over 500,000 which I accrued using the Chase Sapphire Card and transferred to Amtrak. BOA last year came out with a similar card but with NO way to transfer points to AGR. With the redemption levels almost doubling on sleepers I'll use these points for a few cross country trips but the ease of massing points easily isn't possible with my BOA Amtrak card.
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Old Feb 19, 2018, 7:27 am
  #507  
 
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- Points + Cash
- Flat Redemption rate per $
- No Blackout Dates
Originally Posted by musicalbox
Agree on the sentiment and the rest, but you can do this, you just have to call in.
You can do points + cash by calling in?

The redemption rate is not flat. I frequently see the Acela at1.7 cents per point and the regional at 2.9cpp, so the Acela is routinely 2-3x the number of points as the regional trains.

And there are blackout dates, take a look at NYP-WAS for 3/30 (Friday before Easter), plenty of trains with the wonderful "No Price" tagline

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Old Feb 19, 2018, 10:19 am
  #508  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 309
Originally Posted by hi55us
You can do points + cash by calling in?
No, you can purchase monthlies and 10-rides with points by calling in. That was the part I quoted and was responding to.
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Old Feb 21, 2018, 7:21 pm
  #509  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 196
Is there any fast way, to get to select status? What about with credit card?
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Old Feb 21, 2018, 8:26 pm
  #510  
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Posts: 23,185
Originally Posted by CarlosRodrigue
Is there any fast way, to get to select status? What about with credit card?
I got a Select card yesterday. I was totally confused for a few minutes until I looked in my account online and realized I had spent way too much money on the AGR MasterCard last year. Each $5K of spend gets you 1K AGR Tier Qualify Points. So $25K spend gets you Select (without doing anything else).

Since each Amtrak point is worth almost double what most other airlines' points are worth, the AGR card has quickly become my primary card for unbonused spend as well as travel spend (2x AGR points = about 5% effective cashback). That had the side effect of making me earn Select, even though I've moved to a location where it'll be relatively useless...
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