Aug 31, 2015, 6:08 am
Last edit by: beltway
Changes to Amtrak Guest Rewards in 2016
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
AGR altered its expiration policy, which previously required paid travel once every 36 months. Effective August 27, 2015, any points-earning or redemption activity will reset the 36-month clock. Effective April 2019, points expire after 24 months of inactivity.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015. Post-Rollout Issues/Unknowns
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
As in the past, members earn Tier Qualifying Points (TQP) for paid travel at the rate of 2 TQP per dollar. With the 2016 changes, however, AGR has eliminated In addition, AGR now provides new class-of-service TQP bonuses: 25% for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. (As noted below, passengers will also earn redeemable AGR points in the same amount.)
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same: Benefits for each status level, including the Tier Bonus on cash fares (see below), remain the same.
Earning AGR Points Redeemable for Travel- the 100 TQP minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer TQP), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" TQP minimums for Business class (formerly 500 TQP) and First class (formerly 750 TQP); see post #83
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same:
- Select - 5,000 TQP
- Select Plus - 10,000 TQP
- Select Executive - 20,000 TQP
Members continue to earn redeemable AGR points for paid travel (except as discussed below in this section) at the rate of 2 points per dollar, plus a new 25% point bonus for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. Sleeper-car tickets do not earn a bonus.
With the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates In addition to base points, members with status continue to earn Tier Bonus redeemable AGR points (i.e., not TQP) at the same level as in 2015: As was the case before, members do not earn points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redeeming for TravelWith the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates
- the 100 point minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer points), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" minimums for Business class (previously 500 points) and First class (previously 750 points)
- Select - 25%
- Select Plus - 50%
- Select Executive - 100%
For 2016, redemption rules have changed drastically. AGR has discontinued its fixed-point awards and zone system, transitioning instead to a revenue-based system. Under the new program, the points required for an award ticket--including multi-ride tickets and monthly passes--are, with some exceptions noted below, proportional to the cash price of the ticket.
In general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
Note: Reward tickets booked before 1/24/16 are subject to the new redemption policy if modified or canceled on or after that date.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dateseliminated: On the plus side, AGR will eliminate award redemption blackout dates and Acela time-of-day restrictions. When the 2016 changes were announced, AGR claimed that blackout dates were being eliminated. As of January 24, 2016, the AGR website still makes that claim. Unfortunately, it is a lie.
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
Amtrak quietly added similar language to the website in early February 2016. The website also indicates that the point costs for "peak travel" dates and times may be increased in addition to any increase resulting resulting from a higher cash fare. To date, additional points costs of 50% and 100% have been observed on certain itineraries.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
Points ExpirationIn general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
- Minimum award pricing: Regardless of the cash fare, a non-Acela award ticket costs a minimum of 800 AGR points. As a result, using AGR points for such tickets with a cash price under $24 (e.g., LNC-PHL or BWI-WAS) results in lower yields.
Acela award tickets cost a minimum of 4,000 points. Using AGR points for Acela tickets costing less than $103 results in lower yields.
- No redemption for Saver awards: Per AGR's FT representative, members cannot redeem points for tickets at the least-expensive Saver rate. For instance, even if a $52 Saver WAS-NYP cash fare is available, points can be used only to purchase tickets at the equivalent of an $86 Value fare or higher (resulting in a yield of 1.75 cents/point at best).
- Peak travel dates/times: As discussed below under "Blackout Dates," Amtrak has quietly introduced a "peak travel" penalty in which certain high-demand itineraries (not published in advance) will cost 50% or even 100% more points than would normally correspond to the available cash fare.
- Most discount fares inapplicable: Under the 2016 program, AGR points are redeemable for tickets based only on the Adult or Child price, and not at the equivalent of Senior, AAA, or other discounted fares. (See post #83.)
- As was the case before, members may not redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dates
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
you may find limited availability on peak travel dates or times and it is possible that not every seat will be available for redemption. When redeeming points for trips during peak travel dates and times, some itineraries may be available only to our Select Plus and Select Executive members.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
CAUTION: The new policy is worded to imply that reservation "modification" and "cancellation" are treated differently. A "modification" ostensibly triggers a penalty only of "any fare difference returned to member," implying that changing to a more expensive fare should involve no penalty and changing to a less expensive fare should be subject to a penalty only on the refunded points difference.
Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
For complete details on the 2016 change rules, including the special rules for multi-ride tickets and monthly passes, see the AGR website.Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015.
- Class-of-service bonuses have been posting initially as non-TQPs, although subsequent data points suggest there is currently a delay of ~12 days in proper crediting.
- Agents have claimed that any change incurs the 10/20% penalty (up to and including asking for a changed room assignment) on the full value of the ticket, rather than just anything involving a reduction in price being penalized 10/20% on the changed portion
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards
Sep 29, 2015, 9:35 am
#256
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
Right. Another way to look at it is an incentive to upfare to a higher class of service, because those higher classes of service are (generally) more profitable for the carrier. The hard costs of providing the extra space and service are often not as high as the premium being charged, so the margin is greater.
I once flew Emirates F. My Emirates F suite was probably as large as six regular coach seats. Emirates is selling Y seats on DFW-DXB for $1,200. F seats are being sold for $23,300. If EK were just looking to recoup the cost of those six Y seats, they'd sell the F seat for $7,200, but they are selling it for over three times that cost. Sure, the Dom served by Emirates is a nice (and spendy) Champagne, and I know some FTers who have probably consumed the equivalent of a whole bottle by themselves in the dozen or so hours of that flight, but that plus the full meal services and other beverages plus extra flight attendants wouldn't total more than a fifth of the cost of one economy seat. They charge three times more than the equivalent number of coach seats that the F suite replaces because they can--because the people flying up there can afford it and are willing to pay for the improved experience.
To help incentivize that purchase and reward those customers for their increased profitability, they toss a few extra bonus miles out. (This is also why airlines give mileage bonuses on higher fare classes--someone paying full Y for a coach seat is much more profitable than someone paying a deep-discount fare. The airlines want to incentivize people to purchase higher, more flexible fare classes, and they do that in many ways, including by increasing the bonus miles offered on them.)
Amtrak is doing the same on Acela. They charge a premium for the F seats. The premium they charge is greater than the actual cost of removing some Y seats and tossing a meal and a beverage at the passenger and hiring an extra attendant. People buying up those extra F seats represents extra profit for Amtrak, so they help incentivize those purchases by giving extra points--points that amount, at most, to a few dollars' worth of value.
So why are sleepers any different? Last I heard, sleeping cars actually covered their above-the-rail costs better than coach cars. Amtrak makes more of a profit--or at least takes less of a loss--on sleepers than it does on coach cars. So it's in Amtrak's interest to incentivize people to upfare to a sleeper. If they can do that by tossing a dozen bucks' worth of points on the typical grand-plus sleeper fare out at passengers, why shouldn't they? It really has nothing to do with airline competition and more with incentivizing desirable behavior, and in that sense, it's somewhat baffling that the new program doesn't do that.
I once flew Emirates F. My Emirates F suite was probably as large as six regular coach seats. Emirates is selling Y seats on DFW-DXB for $1,200. F seats are being sold for $23,300. If EK were just looking to recoup the cost of those six Y seats, they'd sell the F seat for $7,200, but they are selling it for over three times that cost. Sure, the Dom served by Emirates is a nice (and spendy) Champagne, and I know some FTers who have probably consumed the equivalent of a whole bottle by themselves in the dozen or so hours of that flight, but that plus the full meal services and other beverages plus extra flight attendants wouldn't total more than a fifth of the cost of one economy seat. They charge three times more than the equivalent number of coach seats that the F suite replaces because they can--because the people flying up there can afford it and are willing to pay for the improved experience.
To help incentivize that purchase and reward those customers for their increased profitability, they toss a few extra bonus miles out. (This is also why airlines give mileage bonuses on higher fare classes--someone paying full Y for a coach seat is much more profitable than someone paying a deep-discount fare. The airlines want to incentivize people to purchase higher, more flexible fare classes, and they do that in many ways, including by increasing the bonus miles offered on them.)
Amtrak is doing the same on Acela. They charge a premium for the F seats. The premium they charge is greater than the actual cost of removing some Y seats and tossing a meal and a beverage at the passenger and hiring an extra attendant. People buying up those extra F seats represents extra profit for Amtrak, so they help incentivize those purchases by giving extra points--points that amount, at most, to a few dollars' worth of value.
So why are sleepers any different? Last I heard, sleeping cars actually covered their above-the-rail costs better than coach cars. Amtrak makes more of a profit--or at least takes less of a loss--on sleepers than it does on coach cars. So it's in Amtrak's interest to incentivize people to upfare to a sleeper. If they can do that by tossing a dozen bucks' worth of points on the typical grand-plus sleeper fare out at passengers, why shouldn't they? It really has nothing to do with airline competition and more with incentivizing desirable behavior, and in that sense, it's somewhat baffling that the new program doesn't do that.
And those real numbers say sleeping car passengers are significantly undercharged. You can see this by looking at what Via charges on the Canadian, or what the Indian Pacific charges in Australia.
The AGR changes are driven by the economic imperative to make the sleepers less unprofitable.
Sep 29, 2015, 12:13 pm
#257
In Memoriam
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New York, NY, USA
Programs: HH Diamond, Amtrak Exec
Posts: 3,262
The answer to your question is that rail advocacy groups-whose constituents are mostly older railfans who love nostalgic trips on sleeping cars-say a lot of things about their profitability that are not true, and that the people who run AGR have the real numbers, not the phony ones NARP puts out.
Well that and the fact that VIA can get away with the rail-cruise idea on the Canadian and therefore can also demand more.
The AGR changes are driven by the economic imperative to make Amtrak less unprofitable.
Sep 29, 2015, 2:57 pm
#258
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
The poster I was responding to was basically asking "why doesn't Amtrak treat its first class product like Emirates Airlines does?". And the answer is Emirates Airlines' First Class product makes more money than its Coach product, and where Amtrak has a First or Business Class product that makes more money than its Coach product (as it does with Acela), Amtrak DOES treat it that way.
So that's why I say "Amtrak has the real numbers". It really doesn't matter what some advocacy group says about Amtrak. The people who run Amtrak are not stupid. If sleepers made them money the same way Acela First Class did, you wouldn't see what you are seeing. You'd see something similar to Emirates First Class (or indeed, basically any airline's International First Class-- even Delta's contains tons of amenities, even if it isn't as luxurious as Emirates).
The fact of the matter is, if NARP were right, it would mean either that Amtrak has been run by complete idiots for 45 years, or that Amtrak is run by people who want to destroy the company.
Neither of those explanations are plausible. The only plausible explanation is that NARP, which has a very specific agenda with respect to sleeping cars, is selectively presenting data from public reports in an attempt to make them look profitable when they are not.
There is no comparison to what is provided to one on the Canadian and the number of staff on that train to what is provided by Amtrak in a sleeper. That is why the price is higher.
Well that and the fact that VIA can get away with the rail-cruise idea on the Canadian and therefore can also demand more.
Well that and the fact that VIA can get away with the rail-cruise idea on the Canadian and therefore can also demand more.
Now there's a couple of different directions Amtrak could go in. They COULD sell rail cruises with a standard of luxury, at far higher prices. Or they COULD devalue their sleeping car product to reduce costs so they can stanch the bleeding. That's what they are doing.
But if what NARP were saying was actually true, they would be keeping sleeping car service the way it was and expanding it with more sleepers on their trains. And they certainly wouldn't be punishing those sleeping car passengers with a devaluation of their AGR points. You don't do that to customers who are profitable. You do that to customers who are unprofitable.
The AGR changes are driven by the economic imperative to make Amtrak less unprofitable.
Again, if that is wrong, and NARP is right, than Amtrak is either being by idiots or by people who want to destroy the railroad.
The much more likely explanation is that Amtrak is run by very smart people who have access to the real numbers and believe they can cut their losses by cutting rewards to sleeping car passengers while maintaining rewards for First and Business Class travelers on corridors.
Real business analysis is not conducted by press release.
Sep 29, 2015, 7:17 pm
#259
In Memoriam
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New York, NY, USA
Programs: HH Diamond, Amtrak Exec
Posts: 3,262
So that's why I say "Amtrak has the real numbers". It really doesn't matter what some advocacy group says about Amtrak. The people who run Amtrak are not stupid. If sleepers made them money the same way Acela First Class did, you wouldn't see what you are seeing. You'd see something similar to Emirates First Class (or indeed, basically any airline's International First Class-- even Delta's contains tons of amenities, even if it isn't as luxurious as Emirates).
Sorry, but I don't believe that for a moment. Not with all the Congress critters opposed to Amtrak who would have directed their staff's to find the lies.
The NARP study showed that sleeper passengers still got a railfare subsidy, just like coach passengers get. Sleeper car passengers are still subsidized, just like coach passengers are subsidized. However, the study also showed that without sleeping car passengers, the railfare subsidy for coach passengers would actually be a bit higher than it is with sleeping car passengers included.
What makes you think Amtrak can't "get away with the rail-cruise idea" on its long distance trains? Rail cruises can be a profitable means of offering sleeping car service to the public. We see that in other countries. In contrast, Amtrak loses a ton of money on its long distance trains.
And by the way, VIA's Canadian isn't profitable.
As for Amtrak losing money, about 1/3rd of the subsidies given to Amtrak each year go to operating costs. Less than half of those operating subsidies go to the long distance trains.
Now there's a couple of different directions Amtrak could go in. They COULD sell rail cruises with a standard of luxury, at far higher prices. Or they COULD devalue their sleeping car product to reduce costs so they can stanch the bleeding. That's what they are doing.
But if what NARP were saying was actually true, they would be keeping sleeping car service the way it was and expanding it with more sleepers on their trains. And they certainly wouldn't be punishing those sleeping car passengers with a devaluation of their AGR points. You don't do that to customers who are profitable. You do that to customers who are unprofitable.
It was started for Acela, so that Amtrak could try to compete with the airlines. And the hope was that maybe a few Acela travelers would one day try a sleeper and increase the business there. The program proved more popular than ever expected, and interestingly turned a profit for Amtrak too!
So by devaluing a very popular program, one increases the profits of that program and correspondingly decreases the overall Amtrak loss. And remember, they're devaluing everything by the definition used by most people here. They aren't just devaluing sleepers!
Again, if that is wrong, and NARP is right, than Amtrak is either being by idiots or by people who want to destroy the railroad.
The much more likely explanation is that Amtrak is run by very smart people who have access to the real numbers and believe they can cut their losses by cutting rewards to sleeping car passengers while maintaining rewards for First and Business Class travelers on corridors.
The much more likely explanation is that Amtrak is run by very smart people who have access to the real numbers and believe they can cut their losses by cutting rewards to sleeping car passengers while maintaining rewards for First and Business Class travelers on corridors.
The real numbers are released every month by Amtrak to Congress and the public. Anyone can go and look at them.
Sep 29, 2015, 9:16 pm
#260
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
I'm just going to chime in here and note that the "subsidy" fight (and the resulting bickering over accounting practices) goes back several decades. A lot of it is down to what you do with overhead in terms of upper management cost allocation, for example, as well as some facility management (e.g. do you distribute based on number of trains, train-miles, seat-miles, etc.?).
There's also the question of whether some costs (e.g. 60 Mass) should be allocated versus being put into an "unallocated" line. Obviously some indirect costs for a given route (regular maintenance of pooled equipment, for example) should be allocated but other costs are harder to pin down (Beech Grove comes to mind here). Most companies do not make decisions based on the "fully allocated" costs of operating a service, route, etc. since there are a lot of products out there which turn a profit on direct costs but don't cover all of their overhead. These products (be they train services or anything else) aren't losing money in the normal sense...they're covering costs and contributing to overhead and in many cases cutting them would increase losses elsewhere.
Edit: I will say that I think Amtrak has been seriously missing some upselling opportunities on various routes. Setting aside the lie-flat seat rumor, the lack of anything above and beyond the mediocrity that is Regional BC is sort of stunning in light of how small the (relative) markup is for those seats (It's usually what? 25% or so on the base fare?). With some exceptions I'm used to seeing an "upsell option" available in the 50-100% range if there are multiple classes of service. Yes, I know the Acela theoretically covers this...but there are all sorts of asterisks on that since the Acela skips quite a few stops, doesn't run south of Washington, and so on. Some of the numbers I've seen on (in particular) Virginia service trains scream opportunity there.
There's also the question of whether some costs (e.g. 60 Mass) should be allocated versus being put into an "unallocated" line. Obviously some indirect costs for a given route (regular maintenance of pooled equipment, for example) should be allocated but other costs are harder to pin down (Beech Grove comes to mind here). Most companies do not make decisions based on the "fully allocated" costs of operating a service, route, etc. since there are a lot of products out there which turn a profit on direct costs but don't cover all of their overhead. These products (be they train services or anything else) aren't losing money in the normal sense...they're covering costs and contributing to overhead and in many cases cutting them would increase losses elsewhere.
Edit: I will say that I think Amtrak has been seriously missing some upselling opportunities on various routes. Setting aside the lie-flat seat rumor, the lack of anything above and beyond the mediocrity that is Regional BC is sort of stunning in light of how small the (relative) markup is for those seats (It's usually what? 25% or so on the base fare?). With some exceptions I'm used to seeing an "upsell option" available in the 50-100% range if there are multiple classes of service. Yes, I know the Acela theoretically covers this...but there are all sorts of asterisks on that since the Acela skips quite a few stops, doesn't run south of Washington, and so on. Some of the numbers I've seen on (in particular) Virginia service trains scream opportunity there.
Last edited by GrayAnderson; Sep 29, 2015 at 9:21 pm
Oct 3, 2015, 8:46 pm
#261
formerly known as Tad's Broiled Steaks
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,412
Hi FT,
Very new to Amtrak's rewards program...in fact, didn't even know I had 3k points until an hour ago.
Anyway, would I be able to use those points for a Rochester, NY - Niagara Falls (either NY or Ontario) one-way trip for next month? If not, and because I don't plan on using Amtrak again any time soon, what could be good about 3k reward points?
Thanks,
BmB
Very new to Amtrak's rewards program...in fact, didn't even know I had 3k points until an hour ago.
Anyway, would I be able to use those points for a Rochester, NY - Niagara Falls (either NY or Ontario) one-way trip for next month? If not, and because I don't plan on using Amtrak again any time soon, what could be good about 3k reward points?
Thanks,
BmB
Oct 4, 2015, 11:04 pm
#262
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Ok, this came up in another thread...
Does changing an award under the new program count as redepositing and re-booking or not? I'm going to over simplify here, but if I have a booking that initially cost 20k points. I rebook it at 15k points (5k less) due to "reasons". Do I lose 500 points (10% of 5k) or 2000 points (10% of 20k)?
ALSO, does the penalty apply if there's either a schedule change (which makes a booking a mess) or if a train is exceedingly late (e.g. where I'd be able to cancel with no penalty if the reservation is paid)? And what happens if there's an utterly blown connection (I'm thinking the Western meltdown a few years ago) which effectively renders a trip impossible to complete (e.g. no space on continuing trains for a few days)?
Does changing an award under the new program count as redepositing and re-booking or not? I'm going to over simplify here, but if I have a booking that initially cost 20k points. I rebook it at 15k points (5k less) due to "reasons". Do I lose 500 points (10% of 5k) or 2000 points (10% of 20k)?
ALSO, does the penalty apply if there's either a schedule change (which makes a booking a mess) or if a train is exceedingly late (e.g. where I'd be able to cancel with no penalty if the reservation is paid)? And what happens if there's an utterly blown connection (I'm thinking the Western meltdown a few years ago) which effectively renders a trip impossible to complete (e.g. no space on continuing trains for a few days)?
Oct 6, 2015, 1:58 pm
#263
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 44
Hi FT,
Very new to Amtrak's rewards program...in fact, didn't even know I had 3k points until an hour ago.
Anyway, would I be able to use those points for a Rochester, NY - Niagara Falls (either NY or Ontario) one-way trip for next month? If not, and because I don't plan on using Amtrak again any time soon, what could be good about 3k reward points?
Thanks,
BmB
Very new to Amtrak's rewards program...in fact, didn't even know I had 3k points until an hour ago.
Anyway, would I be able to use those points for a Rochester, NY - Niagara Falls (either NY or Ontario) one-way trip for next month? If not, and because I don't plan on using Amtrak again any time soon, what could be good about 3k reward points?
Thanks,
BmB
https://amtrakguestrewards.com/redeem
They give some examples.
After January the program will be changing so you might be able to use those points plus cash to for a ticket.
Oct 8, 2015, 7:03 am
#264
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: BOS
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (Select Executive)
Posts: 5
Any details on using points to purchase monthly passes?
The fare/points estimator is great but it only designates single leg trip cost. Is there any news suggesting monthly passes would be treated differently? If monthly passes are point purchasable on a "single leg" price that doesn't look too bad...but I would take a discount too haha.
Thanks for any insight.
Eric
Thanks for any insight.
Eric
Oct 9, 2015, 11:42 am
#265
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Manchester,UK and NYC
Programs: One Pass, BAEC, AA
Posts: 708
As I am not a frequent reader of the Amtrak thread, I have only just found out about all the new changes coming to AGR program.
I have also just had my Chase Amtrak card converted to Freedom. The main benefit for me was that it kept my AGR points from expiring. I currently live most of the year in England and have not paid for an Amtrak ticket in well over 3 years (i have used award tickets a few times).
I understand that after Jan 24, 2016 - any points earning will keep the AGR alive for another 36 months. So I can buy something on the shopping mall and earn a few points.
My question is - what is the situation between now and Jan 24, 2016 - WITHOUT HAVING AN AMTRAK CREDIT CARD??
I have around 35,000 AGR points - and am now concerned that these could vanish.
I will make sure to make a shopping mall purchase at end of January - but would appreciate if AGR Insider, or others "in the know" could offer any insight into the expiration policy WITHOUT A CREDIT CARD up to Jan 24 2016
I have also just had my Chase Amtrak card converted to Freedom. The main benefit for me was that it kept my AGR points from expiring. I currently live most of the year in England and have not paid for an Amtrak ticket in well over 3 years (i have used award tickets a few times).
I understand that after Jan 24, 2016 - any points earning will keep the AGR alive for another 36 months. So I can buy something on the shopping mall and earn a few points.
My question is - what is the situation between now and Jan 24, 2016 - WITHOUT HAVING AN AMTRAK CREDIT CARD??
I have around 35,000 AGR points - and am now concerned that these could vanish.
I will make sure to make a shopping mall purchase at end of January - but would appreciate if AGR Insider, or others "in the know" could offer any insight into the expiration policy WITHOUT A CREDIT CARD up to Jan 24 2016
Oct 9, 2015, 2:38 pm
#266
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
As I am not a frequent reader of the Amtrak thread, I have only just found out about all the new changes coming to AGR program.
I have also just had my Chase Amtrak card converted to Freedom. The main benefit for me was that it kept my AGR points from expiring. I currently live most of the year in England and have not paid for an Amtrak ticket in well over 3 years (i have used award tickets a few times).
I understand that after Jan 24, 2016 - any points earning will keep the AGR alive for another 36 months. So I can buy something on the shopping mall and earn a few points.
My question is - what is the situation between now and Jan 24, 2016 - WITHOUT HAVING AN AMTRAK CREDIT CARD??
I have around 35,000 AGR points - and am now concerned that these could vanish.
I will make sure to make a shopping mall purchase at end of January - but would appreciate if AGR Insider, or others "in the know" could offer any insight into the expiration policy WITHOUT A CREDIT CARD up to Jan 24 2016
I have also just had my Chase Amtrak card converted to Freedom. The main benefit for me was that it kept my AGR points from expiring. I currently live most of the year in England and have not paid for an Amtrak ticket in well over 3 years (i have used award tickets a few times).
I understand that after Jan 24, 2016 - any points earning will keep the AGR alive for another 36 months. So I can buy something on the shopping mall and earn a few points.
My question is - what is the situation between now and Jan 24, 2016 - WITHOUT HAVING AN AMTRAK CREDIT CARD??
I have around 35,000 AGR points - and am now concerned that these could vanish.
I will make sure to make a shopping mall purchase at end of January - but would appreciate if AGR Insider, or others "in the know" could offer any insight into the expiration policy WITHOUT A CREDIT CARD up to Jan 24 2016
Oct 9, 2015, 3:55 pm
#267
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,135
- It wasn't buried in this thread, but rather in a different thread (about the Amtrak MC changes).
- Points expiration has not stopped. However, the 2016 changes were essentially put into effect early, so that points now expire only if no redemption or earning activity has occurred in 36 months.
I've updated the wiki accordingly.
Oct 10, 2015, 12:10 am
#268
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Manchester,UK and NYC
Programs: One Pass, BAEC, AA
Posts: 708
So may I confirm that as my last points earned were on May 24, 2015 (credit card points) - this activity re-set the 36 month clock, and my 35,000 AGR points are now good up to May 2018.
Many thanks for your help.
Many thanks for your help.
Last edited by forextrader; Oct 10, 2015 at 12:19 am
Oct 10, 2015, 11:22 am
#269
formerly known as Tad's Broiled Steaks
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,412
I would suggest starting here:
https://amtrakguestrewards.com/redeem
They give some examples.
After January the program will be changing so you might be able to use those points plus cash to for a ticket.
https://amtrakguestrewards.com/redeem
They give some examples.
After January the program will be changing so you might be able to use those points plus cash to for a ticket.
Indeed...based on this year's chart, probably should wait 'til next year, since I live in the token profitable (expensive) Amtrak corridor.
Oct 19, 2015, 2:58 pm
#270
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Dayton, OH
Programs: CarlsonGold,HHDiamond, SPGGold,ChoiceGold, *Silver, WNCompanionPass, ASMVPGold, HyattDiamond,IHGPlat
Posts: 255
Choice Transfer
I don't ride Amtrak.
I was thinking of using this to get some Choice Privileges points. Old posts suggest that minimal spend on the Chase Amtrak CC would get this for you. The T&C's I've read say you need the lowest level elite to transfer, and the BoA card can only give (max) 4,000 Elite points... and that's with a significant amount of spend.
Is the CC otherwise useless for me then?
I was thinking of using this to get some Choice Privileges points. Old posts suggest that minimal spend on the Chase Amtrak CC would get this for you. The T&C's I've read say you need the lowest level elite to transfer, and the BoA card can only give (max) 4,000 Elite points... and that's with a significant amount of spend.
Is the CC otherwise useless for me then?
