Aug 31, 2015, 6:08 am
Last edit by: beltway
Changes to Amtrak Guest Rewards in 2016
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
AGR altered its expiration policy, which previously required paid travel once every 36 months. Effective August 27, 2015, any points-earning or redemption activity will reset the 36-month clock. Effective April 2019, points expire after 24 months of inactivity.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015. Post-Rollout Issues/Unknowns
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
As in the past, members earn Tier Qualifying Points (TQP) for paid travel at the rate of 2 TQP per dollar. With the 2016 changes, however, AGR has eliminated In addition, AGR now provides new class-of-service TQP bonuses: 25% for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. (As noted below, passengers will also earn redeemable AGR points in the same amount.)
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same: Benefits for each status level, including the Tier Bonus on cash fares (see below), remain the same.
Earning AGR Points Redeemable for Travel- the 100 TQP minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer TQP), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" TQP minimums for Business class (formerly 500 TQP) and First class (formerly 750 TQP); see post #83
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same:
- Select - 5,000 TQP
- Select Plus - 10,000 TQP
- Select Executive - 20,000 TQP
Members continue to earn redeemable AGR points for paid travel (except as discussed below in this section) at the rate of 2 points per dollar, plus a new 25% point bonus for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. Sleeper-car tickets do not earn a bonus.
With the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates In addition to base points, members with status continue to earn Tier Bonus redeemable AGR points (i.e., not TQP) at the same level as in 2015: As was the case before, members do not earn points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redeeming for TravelWith the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates
- the 100 point minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer points), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" minimums for Business class (previously 500 points) and First class (previously 750 points)
- Select - 25%
- Select Plus - 50%
- Select Executive - 100%
For 2016, redemption rules have changed drastically. AGR has discontinued its fixed-point awards and zone system, transitioning instead to a revenue-based system. Under the new program, the points required for an award ticket--including multi-ride tickets and monthly passes--are, with some exceptions noted below, proportional to the cash price of the ticket.
In general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
Note: Reward tickets booked before 1/24/16 are subject to the new redemption policy if modified or canceled on or after that date.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dateseliminated: On the plus side, AGR will eliminate award redemption blackout dates and Acela time-of-day restrictions. When the 2016 changes were announced, AGR claimed that blackout dates were being eliminated. As of January 24, 2016, the AGR website still makes that claim. Unfortunately, it is a lie.
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
Amtrak quietly added similar language to the website in early February 2016. The website also indicates that the point costs for "peak travel" dates and times may be increased in addition to any increase resulting resulting from a higher cash fare. To date, additional points costs of 50% and 100% have been observed on certain itineraries.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
Points ExpirationIn general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
- Minimum award pricing: Regardless of the cash fare, a non-Acela award ticket costs a minimum of 800 AGR points. As a result, using AGR points for such tickets with a cash price under $24 (e.g., LNC-PHL or BWI-WAS) results in lower yields.
Acela award tickets cost a minimum of 4,000 points. Using AGR points for Acela tickets costing less than $103 results in lower yields.
- No redemption for Saver awards: Per AGR's FT representative, members cannot redeem points for tickets at the least-expensive Saver rate. For instance, even if a $52 Saver WAS-NYP cash fare is available, points can be used only to purchase tickets at the equivalent of an $86 Value fare or higher (resulting in a yield of 1.75 cents/point at best).
- Peak travel dates/times: As discussed below under "Blackout Dates," Amtrak has quietly introduced a "peak travel" penalty in which certain high-demand itineraries (not published in advance) will cost 50% or even 100% more points than would normally correspond to the available cash fare.
- Most discount fares inapplicable: Under the 2016 program, AGR points are redeemable for tickets based only on the Adult or Child price, and not at the equivalent of Senior, AAA, or other discounted fares. (See post #83.)
- As was the case before, members may not redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dates
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
you may find limited availability on peak travel dates or times and it is possible that not every seat will be available for redemption. When redeeming points for trips during peak travel dates and times, some itineraries may be available only to our Select Plus and Select Executive members.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
CAUTION: The new policy is worded to imply that reservation "modification" and "cancellation" are treated differently. A "modification" ostensibly triggers a penalty only of "any fare difference returned to member," implying that changing to a more expensive fare should involve no penalty and changing to a less expensive fare should be subject to a penalty only on the refunded points difference.
Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
For complete details on the 2016 change rules, including the special rules for multi-ride tickets and monthly passes, see the AGR website.Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015.
- Class-of-service bonuses have been posting initially as non-TQPs, although subsequent data points suggest there is currently a delay of ~12 days in proper crediting.
- Agents have claimed that any change incurs the 10/20% penalty (up to and including asking for a changed room assignment) on the full value of the ticket, rather than just anything involving a reduction in price being penalized 10/20% on the changed portion
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards
Feb 21, 2018, 9:59 pm
#511
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NYC
Programs: DL Platinum, AA Plat Pro, Bonvoy Lifetime Platinum, JetBlue Mosaic 3, Amtrak Select
Posts: 966
I got a Select card yesterday. I was totally confused for a few minutes until I looked in my account online and realized I had spent way too much money on the AGR MasterCard last year. Each $5K of spend gets you 1K AGR Tier Qualify Points. So $25K spend gets you Select (without doing anything else).
Since each Amtrak point is worth almost double what most other airlines' points are worth, the AGR card has quickly become my primary card for unbonused spend as well as travel spend (2x AGR points = about 5% effective cashback). That had the side effect of making me earn Select, even though I've moved to a location where it'll be relatively useless...
Since each Amtrak point is worth almost double what most other airlines' points are worth, the AGR card has quickly become my primary card for unbonused spend as well as travel spend (2x AGR points = about 5% effective cashback). That had the side effect of making me earn Select, even though I've moved to a location where it'll be relatively useless...
"Tier Qualifying Points (TQPs): This benefit applies to Amtrak Guest Rewards® World Mastercard® cardholders only. The Amtrak Guest Rewards® Platinum Mastercard® has different costs and benefits. Tier Qualifying Points (TQPs) are used to track and calculate Amtrak Guest Rewards tier status. Cardholders can earn TQPs in increments of 1,000 points for every $5,000 in eligible Net Purchases on the Amtrak Guest Rewards World Mastercard, up to 4,000 TQPs within a single calendar year. "
@jackal - I assume you probably earned 1k TQPs last year, but if not and you earned select solely via spend, that's a very interesting data point
Feb 21, 2018, 11:22 pm
#512
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,194
One minor correction. According to the T&Cs (https://www.bankofamerica.com/credit-cards/terms-and-conditions/?campaignid=4016565&productoffercode=BH&locale=en_ US&isMobile=true&format=ccr), you can earn up to 4k TQPs a year.
"Tier Qualifying Points (TQPs): This benefit applies to Amtrak Guest Rewards® World Mastercard® cardholders only. The Amtrak Guest Rewards® Platinum Mastercard® has different costs and benefits. Tier Qualifying Points (TQPs) are used to track and calculate Amtrak Guest Rewards tier status. Cardholders can earn TQPs in increments of 1,000 points for every $5,000 in eligible Net Purchases on the Amtrak Guest Rewards World Mastercard, up to 4,000 TQPs within a single calendar year. "
@jackal - I assume you probably earned 1k TQPs last year, but if not and you earned select solely via spend, that's a very interesting data point
"Tier Qualifying Points (TQPs): This benefit applies to Amtrak Guest Rewards® World Mastercard® cardholders only. The Amtrak Guest Rewards® Platinum Mastercard® has different costs and benefits. Tier Qualifying Points (TQPs) are used to track and calculate Amtrak Guest Rewards tier status. Cardholders can earn TQPs in increments of 1,000 points for every $5,000 in eligible Net Purchases on the Amtrak Guest Rewards World Mastercard, up to 4,000 TQPs within a single calendar year. "
@jackal - I assume you probably earned 1k TQPs last year, but if not and you earned select solely via spend, that's a very interesting data point
I did get four of the 1K TQP bonuses. I have no idea how much over $20K I spent on the card last year.
Mar 18, 2018, 11:42 am
#513
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 196
I got a Select card yesterday. I was totally confused for a few minutes until I looked in my account online and realized I had spent way too much money on the AGR MasterCard last year. Each $5K of spend gets you 1K AGR Tier Qualify Points. So $25K spend gets you Select (without doing anything else).
Since each Amtrak point is worth almost double what most other airlines' points are worth, the AGR card has quickly become my primary card for unbonused spend as well as travel spend (2x AGR points = about 5% effective cashback). That had the side effect of making me earn Select, even though I've moved to a location where it'll be relatively useless...
Since each Amtrak point is worth almost double what most other airlines' points are worth, the AGR card has quickly become my primary card for unbonused spend as well as travel spend (2x AGR points = about 5% effective cashback). That had the side effect of making me earn Select, even though I've moved to a location where it'll be relatively useless...
Nov 21, 2018, 9:39 am
#514
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: PSC
Programs: Hilton Diamond/IHG Platinum/DL Plutononium
Posts: 1,728
All trains on the NEC today listed as "No Price" despite being a select member and having revenue tickets available. Very frustrating. I've been burning my points on last minute BOS-NLC tickets for work and there is only 1 train sold out, the rest won't let me use points.
Amtrak really should stop advertising "no blackout dates" on their new rewards program.
Amtrak really should stop advertising "no blackout dates" on their new rewards program.
May 14, 2019, 10:11 am
#515
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SF CA USA. I love large faceless corporations. And they cherish me in return (sometimes). ;)
Programs: UA Premier Gold/disappointed 1MM, HH Gold, IHG Plat, MB Gold, BW Diam Sel
Posts: 17,575
I searched for an answer to this question both on this forum and in the AGR T&Cs, but haven't yet found an answer: Do "pending points" from a Points for Shopping transaction prevent one's existing points from expiring? Of course, once the pending points are "approved," they will obviously count as a transaction that will prevent expiration (under the current T&Cs). But what happens if the existing points in the account expire before the transaction is approved? Do I have to contact AGR and beg for reinstatement of points?
ETA: I never got an answer to my own question (either here or from AGR), so to be safe I spent 1,000 points to offset 1,983 lbs. of carbon a few days before my points were scheduled to expire, and that did the trick, of course. I realize I could have purchased points to prevent expiration, but didn't consider it worthwhile as I only ride and/or redeem on Amtrak sporadically. Meanwhile, the Points for Shopping transaction is still "pending." It appears that it can take 3 months or even longer for these shopping transactions to be approved, so I should have done the purchase at least 4 months before points expiration. (And even then, it might never have been "approved."
)
But at least you don't have to actually ride on Amtrak to prevent points from expiring (since the changes in AGR a few years ago), so there's that.
ETA: I never got an answer to my own question (either here or from AGR), so to be safe I spent 1,000 points to offset 1,983 lbs. of carbon a few days before my points were scheduled to expire, and that did the trick, of course. I realize I could have purchased points to prevent expiration, but didn't consider it worthwhile as I only ride and/or redeem on Amtrak sporadically. Meanwhile, the Points for Shopping transaction is still "pending." It appears that it can take 3 months or even longer for these shopping transactions to be approved, so I should have done the purchase at least 4 months before points expiration. (And even then, it might never have been "approved."
)But at least you don't have to actually ride on Amtrak to prevent points from expiring (since the changes in AGR a few years ago), so there's that.
Last edited by KathyWdrf; Jun 11, 2019 at 6:05 pm
Jun 4, 2019, 8:10 am
#516
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: WN A+, AA, HYATT DIAMOND, SPG
Posts: 1,125
I've searched the WIKI, AGR website, etc and couldn't find an answer.
When one achieves status on Amtrak, is it only good for the remainder of the calendar year or does it also include the following year?
Thanks in advance...
When one achieves status on Amtrak, is it only good for the remainder of the calendar year or does it also include the following year?
Thanks in advance...
Jun 4, 2019, 9:07 am
#517
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NYC
Programs: DL Platinum, AA Plat Pro, Bonvoy Lifetime Platinum, JetBlue Mosaic 3, Amtrak Select
Posts: 966
The Select Executive status I earned on 2018 travel is good until Feb 29, 2020.
Jan 20, 2022, 7:18 am
#518
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Philly suburbs
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards, BOA Travel Visa,
Posts: 56
Looks like Amtrak Guest Rewards Master card will again be moving to a new bank. Assuming we will all have to re apply at the new bank. This will be bank #5 for this card if this happens.
https://www.bestcards.com/credit-car...lFFyAme-729a7E
https://www.bestcards.com/credit-car...lFFyAme-729a7E
Jan 21, 2022, 11:58 am
#519
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,719
What is BofA going to do with the legacy accounts? I really don't need another nonbranded BofA "rewards" card with mediocre ROI
Jan 21, 2022, 12:39 pm
#520
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
Bank of America has sent out a letter to existing Major League Baseball (MLB) cardholders stating that their Major League Baseball Customized Cash Rewards credit card will become a Bank of America Unlimited Cash Rewards card (some people are being converted to the Customized Cash Rewards credit card, this has the same rewards program as the MLB card) because the partnership between BofA & MLB has ended.
Dec 30, 2023, 5:57 pm
#521
Join Date: Nov 2016
Programs: Nectar Card
Posts: 1,092
I made a bunch of reservations and some time later realized it might make sense to make an account. With member number now in hand, I added it to every reservation using the "Add/Update Guest Rewards Number" prompt on each itinerary. I refreshed my account on desktop, but still didn't see anything under My Trips. I then waited a day thinking the system might need a refresh, and still nothing.
My guess is you can't see trips that aren't initially booked with your account; adding the member number later is somehow insufficient? If so, I wonder if this is intentional, or perhaps an error?
My guess is you can't see trips that aren't initially booked with your account; adding the member number later is somehow insufficient? If so, I wonder if this is intentional, or perhaps an error?
Dec 31, 2023, 8:41 am
#522
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: BOS
Posts: 2,315
If you manually add a trip in the app (bottom of Home Screen) it stays in the list. I frequently do this with my children’s trips and it shows up on the home
screem in the app - even though they are booked with my kids guest rewards numbers.
screem in the app - even though they are booked with my kids guest rewards numbers.
Dec 31, 2023, 1:46 pm
#523
Join Date: Nov 2016
Programs: Nectar Card
Posts: 1,092
Ah, sorry maybe I was confusing.
Whether or not trips show up in the app, my goal was for my trips to be associated with my account (and show up in my account). I added my member number to every trip initially-booked without a member number, yet when I login to my account on desktop, nothing is there. This seems like a pretty standard expectation (certainly how many airline FF programs work), and I wasn't sure if this was expected Amtrak IT behavior or a glitch.
Whether or not trips show up in the app, my goal was for my trips to be associated with my account (and show up in my account). I added my member number to every trip initially-booked without a member number, yet when I login to my account on desktop, nothing is there. This seems like a pretty standard expectation (certainly how many airline FF programs work), and I wasn't sure if this was expected Amtrak IT behavior or a glitch.
Jan 2, 2024, 1:27 am
#524
Join Date: Nov 2016
Programs: Nectar Card
Posts: 1,092
I made a bunch of reservations and some time later realized it might make sense to make an account. With member number now in hand, I added it to every reservation using the "Add/Update Guest Rewards Number" prompt on each itinerary. I refreshed my account on desktop, but still didn't see anything under My Trips. I then waited a day thinking the system might need a refresh, and still nothing.
My guess is you can't see trips that aren't initially booked with your account; adding the member number later is somehow insufficient? If so, I wonder if this is intentional, or perhaps an error?
My guess is you can't see trips that aren't initially booked with your account; adding the member number later is somehow insufficient? If so, I wonder if this is intentional, or perhaps an error?
Ah, sorry maybe I was confusing.
Whether or not trips show up in the app, my goal was for my trips to be associated with my account (and show up in my account). I added my member number to every trip initially-booked without a member number, yet when I login to my account on desktop, nothing is there. This seems like a pretty standard expectation (certainly how many airline FF programs work), and I wasn't sure if this was expected Amtrak IT behavior or a glitch.
Whether or not trips show up in the app, my goal was for my trips to be associated with my account (and show up in my account). I added my member number to every trip initially-booked without a member number, yet when I login to my account on desktop, nothing is there. This seems like a pretty standard expectation (certainly how many airline FF programs work), and I wasn't sure if this was expected Amtrak IT behavior or a glitch.
I don't know if the issue is that the trips were booked before you had an account, or, if it's because the member number wasn't in the booking during the initial booking.
As mentioned above, I think it should be easy for the system to associate a prior booking with your account (airlines do this all the time) and have it show up under "My Trips," but Amtrak doesn't seem to work like this.