Aug 31, 2015, 6:08 am
Last edit by: beltway
Changes to Amtrak Guest Rewards in 2016
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
AGR altered its expiration policy, which previously required paid travel once every 36 months. Effective August 27, 2015, any points-earning or redemption activity will reset the 36-month clock. Effective April 2019, points expire after 24 months of inactivity.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015. Post-Rollout Issues/Unknowns
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
As in the past, members earn Tier Qualifying Points (TQP) for paid travel at the rate of 2 TQP per dollar. With the 2016 changes, however, AGR has eliminated In addition, AGR now provides new class-of-service TQP bonuses: 25% for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. (As noted below, passengers will also earn redeemable AGR points in the same amount.)
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same: Benefits for each status level, including the Tier Bonus on cash fares (see below), remain the same.
Earning AGR Points Redeemable for Travel- the 100 TQP minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer TQP), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" TQP minimums for Business class (formerly 500 TQP) and First class (formerly 750 TQP); see post #83
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same:
- Select - 5,000 TQP
- Select Plus - 10,000 TQP
- Select Executive - 20,000 TQP
Members continue to earn redeemable AGR points for paid travel (except as discussed below in this section) at the rate of 2 points per dollar, plus a new 25% point bonus for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. Sleeper-car tickets do not earn a bonus.
With the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates In addition to base points, members with status continue to earn Tier Bonus redeemable AGR points (i.e., not TQP) at the same level as in 2015: As was the case before, members do not earn points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redeeming for TravelWith the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates
- the 100 point minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer points), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" minimums for Business class (previously 500 points) and First class (previously 750 points)
- Select - 25%
- Select Plus - 50%
- Select Executive - 100%
For 2016, redemption rules have changed drastically. AGR has discontinued its fixed-point awards and zone system, transitioning instead to a revenue-based system. Under the new program, the points required for an award ticket--including multi-ride tickets and monthly passes--are, with some exceptions noted below, proportional to the cash price of the ticket.
In general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
Note: Reward tickets booked before 1/24/16 are subject to the new redemption policy if modified or canceled on or after that date.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dateseliminated: On the plus side, AGR will eliminate award redemption blackout dates and Acela time-of-day restrictions. When the 2016 changes were announced, AGR claimed that blackout dates were being eliminated. As of January 24, 2016, the AGR website still makes that claim. Unfortunately, it is a lie.
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
Amtrak quietly added similar language to the website in early February 2016. The website also indicates that the point costs for "peak travel" dates and times may be increased in addition to any increase resulting resulting from a higher cash fare. To date, additional points costs of 50% and 100% have been observed on certain itineraries.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
Points ExpirationIn general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
- Minimum award pricing: Regardless of the cash fare, a non-Acela award ticket costs a minimum of 800 AGR points. As a result, using AGR points for such tickets with a cash price under $24 (e.g., LNC-PHL or BWI-WAS) results in lower yields.
Acela award tickets cost a minimum of 4,000 points. Using AGR points for Acela tickets costing less than $103 results in lower yields.
- No redemption for Saver awards: Per AGR's FT representative, members cannot redeem points for tickets at the least-expensive Saver rate. For instance, even if a $52 Saver WAS-NYP cash fare is available, points can be used only to purchase tickets at the equivalent of an $86 Value fare or higher (resulting in a yield of 1.75 cents/point at best).
- Peak travel dates/times: As discussed below under "Blackout Dates," Amtrak has quietly introduced a "peak travel" penalty in which certain high-demand itineraries (not published in advance) will cost 50% or even 100% more points than would normally correspond to the available cash fare.
- Most discount fares inapplicable: Under the 2016 program, AGR points are redeemable for tickets based only on the Adult or Child price, and not at the equivalent of Senior, AAA, or other discounted fares. (See post #83.)
- As was the case before, members may not redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dates
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
you may find limited availability on peak travel dates or times and it is possible that not every seat will be available for redemption. When redeeming points for trips during peak travel dates and times, some itineraries may be available only to our Select Plus and Select Executive members.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
CAUTION: The new policy is worded to imply that reservation "modification" and "cancellation" are treated differently. A "modification" ostensibly triggers a penalty only of "any fare difference returned to member," implying that changing to a more expensive fare should involve no penalty and changing to a less expensive fare should be subject to a penalty only on the refunded points difference.
Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
For complete details on the 2016 change rules, including the special rules for multi-ride tickets and monthly passes, see the AGR website.Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015.
- Class-of-service bonuses have been posting initially as non-TQPs, although subsequent data points suggest there is currently a delay of ~12 days in proper crediting.
- Agents have claimed that any change incurs the 10/20% penalty (up to and including asking for a changed room assignment) on the full value of the ticket, rather than just anything involving a reduction in price being penalized 10/20% on the changed portion
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards
Oct 19, 2015, 3:39 pm
#271
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: United States
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Amtrak
Posts: 4,647
Of course, the no-fee credit card would actually be cheaper, in a sense, but might not be worth the hassle, if you're able to reset the expiration clock doing something you would have been doing anyhow.
Oct 19, 2015, 7:06 pm
#272
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,933
I don't ride Amtrak.
I was thinking of using this to get some Choice Privileges points. Old posts suggest that minimal spend on the Chase Amtrak CC would get this for you. The T&C's I've read say you need the lowest level elite to transfer, and the BoA card can only give (max) 4,000 Elite points... and that's with a significant amount of spend.
Is the CC otherwise useless for me then?
I was thinking of using this to get some Choice Privileges points. Old posts suggest that minimal spend on the Chase Amtrak CC would get this for you. The T&C's I've read say you need the lowest level elite to transfer, and the BoA card can only give (max) 4,000 Elite points... and that's with a significant amount of spend.
Is the CC otherwise useless for me then?
* "Always" meaning for something like the last half a dozen years at least. Before that, there were no restrictions on transferring to Choice. But once the restrictions appeared late in the last decade, they always required Amtrak travel purchases, not just any old purchases, to enable them.
Oct 20, 2015, 12:01 am
#273
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Well, you wouldn't actually "need" the new CC since any transaction resets the clock under the new program. So the poster could, as (s)he suggests, buy something from the online shopping portal.
Of course, the no-fee credit card would actually be cheaper, in a sense, but might not be worth the hassle, if you're able to reset the expiration clock doing something you would have been doing anyhow.
Of course, the no-fee credit card would actually be cheaper, in a sense, but might not be worth the hassle, if you're able to reset the expiration clock doing something you would have been doing anyhow.
Oct 20, 2015, 6:01 am
#274
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 453
Ack! Is AGR trying to shrink their business, and that of Amtrak? How much more unfriendly can they get toward senior citizens?
I have already paid my yearly Chase card fee. My Chase card is good for another year. Last year, every point I earned was on the credit card purchases! Chase says they will give me a Freedom card. I need that like Dolly Parton needs a bust developer! I am a senior citizen; I already have 3 Freedom cards with high credit availability.
What needs to happen is something like immediate Select status with the BoA AGR cards, particularly that one with the fee.
OR, sell Select status as a stand alone product.
OR, tie it into a charity; like donations of a certain amount to a certain charity during a certain month get Select status for a year.
OR, my favorite, immediate Select status for senior citizens!
Oct 20, 2015, 7:48 am
#275
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: WAS
Posts: 339
I continue to experience wrinkles with the BoA credit card application process.
I don't actually have the cards in hand yet, but once I do, I guess another call to BoA is in order. I don't need two identical cards! Unless they're willing to give me the sign-up bonus twice.
- October 7: Applied online for the BoA Amtrak card, received an "application pending, we'll get back to you" response
- October 14: Tried to check the status of my application online and received a "we have no record of an application by this person" response, so called BoA. The phone support person confirmed that there was no record of my application in their system, and processed a fresh application for me over the phone, which was immediately approved.
- October 15: My original online application resurfaced and was approved
- October 19: I receive two letters with different account numbers welcoming me to BoA
I don't actually have the cards in hand yet, but once I do, I guess another call to BoA is in order. I don't need two identical cards! Unless they're willing to give me the sign-up bonus twice.
Oct 20, 2015, 10:27 am
#276
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Dayton, OH
Programs: CarlsonGold,HHDiamond, SPGGold,ChoiceGold, *Silver, WNCompanionPass, ASMVPGold, HyattDiamond,IHGPlat
Posts: 255
Did you get hit with 2 hard inquiries?
I continue to experience wrinkles with the BoA credit card application process.
I don't actually have the cards in hand yet, but once I do, I guess another call to BoA is in order. I don't need two identical cards! Unless they're willing to give me the sign-up bonus twice.
- October 7: Applied online for the BoA Amtrak card, received an "application pending, we'll get back to you" response
- October 14: Tried to check the status of my application online and received a "we have no record of an application by this person" response, so called BoA. The phone support person confirmed that there was no record of my application in their system, and processed a fresh application for me over the phone, which was immediately approved.
- October 15: My original online application resurfaced and was approved
- October 19: I receive two letters with different account numbers welcoming me to BoA
I don't actually have the cards in hand yet, but once I do, I guess another call to BoA is in order. I don't need two identical cards! Unless they're willing to give me the sign-up bonus twice.
Oct 20, 2015, 1:11 pm
#278
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: PDX
Programs: DL DM, AS MVP 100K, Amtrak peon, Colbert Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 4,534
I have already paid my yearly Chase card fee. My Chase card is good for another year. Last year, every point I earned was on the credit card purchases! Chase says they will give me a Freedom card. I need that like Dolly Parton needs a bust developer! I am a senior citizen; I already have 3 Freedom cards with high credit availability.
Chase never carried a fee on the AGR card. If you're talking about Sapphire Preferred, losing transfer access to AGR hurts, but it's still a fantastically rewarding card.What needs to happen is something like immediate Select status with the BoA AGR cards, particularly that one with the fee.
OR, sell Select status as a stand alone product.
OR, tie it into a charity; like donations of a certain amount to a certain charity during a certain month get Select status for a year.
OR, my favorite, immediate Select status for senior citizens!
OR, sell Select status as a stand alone product.
OR, tie it into a charity; like donations of a certain amount to a certain charity during a certain month get Select status for a year.
OR, my favorite, immediate Select status for senior citizens!
The new $79 BofA product does have enough perks to emulate a fairly satisfactory version of Select-lite, which many of us on this forum have requested for years. I'm losing Select Plus after this year and basically feel no incentive to go for Select as a West Coaster. Rather, the credit card bennies will suffice. Anything else I want, I'll pay for (which, incidentally, is also my new mindset with United after many years as 1K and watching the program devolve). Better to strategically make the programs work for you than to be a slave to a particular status level.
Oct 20, 2015, 8:11 pm
#279
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,194
Slightly OT question, though kinda related to all the changes going on here--
I know policies have changed in recent years and of course things are about to change even more, but can anyone confirm what the AGR sleeper award refund policies are? Are they still refundable in full (especially if canceled 14+ days out)? Or is there now a penalty for refunding a sleeper award?
I know policies have changed in recent years and of course things are about to change even more, but can anyone confirm what the AGR sleeper award refund policies are? Are they still refundable in full (especially if canceled 14+ days out)? Or is there now a penalty for refunding a sleeper award?
Oct 20, 2015, 8:43 pm
#280
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: n.y.c.
Posts: 13,988
Slightly OT question, though kinda related to all the changes going on here--
I know policies have changed in recent years and of course things are about to change even more, but can anyone confirm what the AGR sleeper award refund policies are? Are they still refundable in full (especially if canceled 14+ days out)? Or is there now a penalty for refunding a sleeper award?
I know policies have changed in recent years and of course things are about to change even more, but can anyone confirm what the AGR sleeper award refund policies are? Are they still refundable in full (especially if canceled 14+ days out)? Or is there now a penalty for refunding a sleeper award?
Oct 20, 2015, 9:14 pm
#281
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,194
Is this for the new program or is this already in effect today for points redeemed today for travel before the end of the year?
Oct 21, 2015, 5:45 am
#282
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 453
Chase never carried a fee on the AGR card. If you're talking about Sapphire Preferred, losing transfer access to AGR hurts, but it's still a fantastically rewarding card.With due respect, if you don't travel enough to make Select, it's not something to so intensely covet. Since AGR is being devalued and since Amtrak hasn't created a culture of rewarding elites at every customer service touchpoint at most stations and on-board, Select really isn't that beneficial, especially outside of the NEC.
The new $79 BofA product does have enough perks to emulate a fairly satisfactory version of Select-lite, which many of us on this forum have requested for years. I'm losing Select Plus after this year and basically feel no incentive to go for Select as a West Coaster. Rather, the credit card bennies will suffice. Anything else I want, I'll pay for (which, incidentally, is also my new mindset with United after many years as 1K and watching the program devolve). Better to strategically make the programs work for you than to be a slave to a particular status level.
Oct 27, 2015, 2:27 pm
#283
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: United 1P
Posts: 688
On the Wiki, it says" an AGR point will be worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela"
But someone also mentioned that the regional will cost 34.5 points per dollar, and the Acela will be 40 (seems to go down to 39 over $100).
Which one is correct for NE corridor? Thanks!
But someone also mentioned that the regional will cost 34.5 points per dollar, and the Acela will be 40 (seems to go down to 39 over $100).
Which one is correct for NE corridor? Thanks!
Oct 27, 2015, 2:30 pm
#284
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
On the Wiki, it says" an AGR point will be worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela"
But someone also mentioned that the regional will cost 34.5 points per dollar, and the Acela will be 40 (seems to go down to 39 over $100).
Which one is correct for NE corridor? Thanks!
But someone also mentioned that the regional will cost 34.5 points per dollar, and the Acela will be 40 (seems to go down to 39 over $100).
Which one is correct for NE corridor? Thanks!
1/.345 ~= 2.9
1/.39 ~= 2.56