Aug 31, 2015, 6:08 am
Last edit by: beltway
Changes to Amtrak Guest Rewards in 2016
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
AGR altered its expiration policy, which previously required paid travel once every 36 months. Effective August 27, 2015, any points-earning or redemption activity will reset the 36-month clock. Effective April 2019, points expire after 24 months of inactivity.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015. Post-Rollout Issues/Unknowns
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
As in the past, members earn Tier Qualifying Points (TQP) for paid travel at the rate of 2 TQP per dollar. With the 2016 changes, however, AGR has eliminated In addition, AGR now provides new class-of-service TQP bonuses: 25% for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. (As noted below, passengers will also earn redeemable AGR points in the same amount.)
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same: Benefits for each status level, including the Tier Bonus on cash fares (see below), remain the same.
Earning AGR Points Redeemable for Travel- the 100 TQP minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer TQP), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" TQP minimums for Business class (formerly 500 TQP) and First class (formerly 750 TQP); see post #83
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same:
- Select - 5,000 TQP
- Select Plus - 10,000 TQP
- Select Executive - 20,000 TQP
Members continue to earn redeemable AGR points for paid travel (except as discussed below in this section) at the rate of 2 points per dollar, plus a new 25% point bonus for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. Sleeper-car tickets do not earn a bonus.
With the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates In addition to base points, members with status continue to earn Tier Bonus redeemable AGR points (i.e., not TQP) at the same level as in 2015: As was the case before, members do not earn points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redeeming for TravelWith the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates
- the 100 point minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer points), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" minimums for Business class (previously 500 points) and First class (previously 750 points)
- Select - 25%
- Select Plus - 50%
- Select Executive - 100%
For 2016, redemption rules have changed drastically. AGR has discontinued its fixed-point awards and zone system, transitioning instead to a revenue-based system. Under the new program, the points required for an award ticket--including multi-ride tickets and monthly passes--are, with some exceptions noted below, proportional to the cash price of the ticket.
In general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
Note: Reward tickets booked before 1/24/16 are subject to the new redemption policy if modified or canceled on or after that date.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dateseliminated: On the plus side, AGR will eliminate award redemption blackout dates and Acela time-of-day restrictions. When the 2016 changes were announced, AGR claimed that blackout dates were being eliminated. As of January 24, 2016, the AGR website still makes that claim. Unfortunately, it is a lie.
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
Amtrak quietly added similar language to the website in early February 2016. The website also indicates that the point costs for "peak travel" dates and times may be increased in addition to any increase resulting resulting from a higher cash fare. To date, additional points costs of 50% and 100% have been observed on certain itineraries.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
Points ExpirationIn general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
- Minimum award pricing: Regardless of the cash fare, a non-Acela award ticket costs a minimum of 800 AGR points. As a result, using AGR points for such tickets with a cash price under $24 (e.g., LNC-PHL or BWI-WAS) results in lower yields.
Acela award tickets cost a minimum of 4,000 points. Using AGR points for Acela tickets costing less than $103 results in lower yields.
- No redemption for Saver awards: Per AGR's FT representative, members cannot redeem points for tickets at the least-expensive Saver rate. For instance, even if a $52 Saver WAS-NYP cash fare is available, points can be used only to purchase tickets at the equivalent of an $86 Value fare or higher (resulting in a yield of 1.75 cents/point at best).
- Peak travel dates/times: As discussed below under "Blackout Dates," Amtrak has quietly introduced a "peak travel" penalty in which certain high-demand itineraries (not published in advance) will cost 50% or even 100% more points than would normally correspond to the available cash fare.
- Most discount fares inapplicable: Under the 2016 program, AGR points are redeemable for tickets based only on the Adult or Child price, and not at the equivalent of Senior, AAA, or other discounted fares. (See post #83.)
- As was the case before, members may not redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dates
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
you may find limited availability on peak travel dates or times and it is possible that not every seat will be available for redemption. When redeeming points for trips during peak travel dates and times, some itineraries may be available only to our Select Plus and Select Executive members.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
CAUTION: The new policy is worded to imply that reservation "modification" and "cancellation" are treated differently. A "modification" ostensibly triggers a penalty only of "any fare difference returned to member," implying that changing to a more expensive fare should involve no penalty and changing to a less expensive fare should be subject to a penalty only on the refunded points difference.
Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
For complete details on the 2016 change rules, including the special rules for multi-ride tickets and monthly passes, see the AGR website.Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015.
- Class-of-service bonuses have been posting initially as non-TQPs, although subsequent data points suggest there is currently a delay of ~12 days in proper crediting.
- Agents have claimed that any change incurs the 10/20% penalty (up to and including asking for a changed room assignment) on the full value of the ticket, rather than just anything involving a reduction in price being penalized 10/20% on the changed portion
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards
Sep 2, 2015, 5:40 am
#166
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,135
Anthony, the website says "Not all fares will qualify for point earning and redeeming." You've already stated that points will not be redeemable for fares at the Saver level, but I don't recall seeing further details on which fares won't earn points. Can you please elaborate (or point me to the discussion I may have overlooked)?
Sep 2, 2015, 7:22 am
#167
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Twixt Lancaster & Reading, PA
Programs: Amtrak, Southwest, Choice Hotels, AAdvantage, Alaska
Posts: 46
I "buy" over 500 trips a year, to the end-of-the-line station westbound and then back, after eight hours toiling in the legislation mines. Do you think that should be enough to have a fairly clear path to a status level upgrade? Amtrak used to say yes, now they say no. It's just that simple.
Sep 2, 2015, 2:10 pm
#168
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Programs: Marriott lifetime Titanium, Delta Platinum
Posts: 5,470
Auto Train AGR point fare under new program
Trying to get a handle on the high season AGR point cost of an Auto Train bedroom under the new program. Under current program, the cost is 25,000 points for the bedroom and all occupants (2 in the bedroom, or 2 adults and 2 children in family bedroom). Under the new program, based on likely high season prices shown on amtrak.com, it appears a bedroom with two adult occupants would be about $1,100 (not including the automobile). When I use the new program point calculator at amtrak.com, it calculates that a $1,100 fare requires 37,950 points, or about a 52% increase over the old AGR program. (52%!!!).
HOWEVER, the new program calculator also contains this disclaimer: "Point estimates are based on single train ticket for a single passenger and should be used for estimating purposes only." My question is, what significance does this disclaimer have on the above calculations for the new program? In other words, if the total price of the bedroom with two occupants is shown as $1,100 on amtrak.com, does the disclaimer (as to the AGR calculation being for a "single passenger") mean that it would not be accurate because the total fare shown is for two passengers? Or, since the $1,100 fare is for the bedroom and 2 passengers, would the calculation, nevertheless be accurate? Any thoughts? (I'm trying to estimate how many points I need to transfer from UR.)
HOWEVER, the new program calculator also contains this disclaimer: "Point estimates are based on single train ticket for a single passenger and should be used for estimating purposes only." My question is, what significance does this disclaimer have on the above calculations for the new program? In other words, if the total price of the bedroom with two occupants is shown as $1,100 on amtrak.com, does the disclaimer (as to the AGR calculation being for a "single passenger") mean that it would not be accurate because the total fare shown is for two passengers? Or, since the $1,100 fare is for the bedroom and 2 passengers, would the calculation, nevertheless be accurate? Any thoughts? (I'm trying to estimate how many points I need to transfer from UR.)
Sep 2, 2015, 2:19 pm
#169
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Philly suburbs
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards, BOA Travel Visa,
Posts: 56
Trying to get a handle on the high season AGR point cost of an Auto Train bedroom under the new program. Under current program, the cost is 25,000 points for the bedroom and all occupants (2 in the bedroom, or 2 adults and 2 children in family bedroom). Under the new program, based on likely high season prices shown on amtrak.com, it appears a bedroom with two adult occupants would be about $1,100 (not including the automobile). When I use the new program point calculator at amtrak.com, it calculates that a $1,100 fare requires 37,950 points, or about a 52% increase over the old AGR program. (52%!!!).
HOWEVER, the new program calculator also contains this disclaimer: "Point estimates are based on single train ticket for a single passenger and should be used for estimating purposes only." My question is, what significance does this disclaimer have on the above calculations for the new program? In other words, if the total price of the bedroom with two occupants is shown as $1,100 on amtrak.com, does the disclaimer (as to the AGR calculation being for a "single passenger") mean that it would not be accurate because the total fare shown is for two passengers? Or, since the $1,100 fare is for the bedroom and 2 passengers, would the calculation, nevertheless be accurate? Any thoughts? (I'm trying to estimate how many points I need to transfer from UR.)
HOWEVER, the new program calculator also contains this disclaimer: "Point estimates are based on single train ticket for a single passenger and should be used for estimating purposes only." My question is, what significance does this disclaimer have on the above calculations for the new program? In other words, if the total price of the bedroom with two occupants is shown as $1,100 on amtrak.com, does the disclaimer (as to the AGR calculation being for a "single passenger") mean that it would not be accurate because the total fare shown is for two passengers? Or, since the $1,100 fare is for the bedroom and 2 passengers, would the calculation, nevertheless be accurate? Any thoughts? (I'm trying to estimate how many points I need to transfer from UR.)
Sep 2, 2015, 2:35 pm
#170
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Twixt Lancaster & Reading, PA
Programs: Amtrak, Southwest, Choice Hotels, AAdvantage, Alaska
Posts: 46
This has been my point all along. The sleepers have been hit with huge point increases with the exception being a single train two zone ride(NYC-NOL or CHI-WAS) which have dropped by a few thousand points. The three zones have went up from 120,000 to around 188,000 depending on fare give or take. And single zones have went up for NYC to ORL from 50,000 to around 85,000. I would not have minded an increase but a 40% increase is too high.
Note: the ENTIRE Pennsylvania Keystone, HAR-PHL carries a $28 fare, whether bought 11 months, 11 days, 11 minutes, or 11 seconds prior to departure. And if you buy it as a HAR-LNC and LNC-PHL pair, it drops to $24. The HAR-PHL is a 1 hr. 45 min. trip - $24-$28. That's what state subsidies do. (As of October 1, slightly higher all Fridays and Sundays.)
Last edited by VKurtB; Sep 2, 2015 at 2:42 pm
Sep 2, 2015, 7:03 pm
#171
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
HOWEVER, the new program calculator also contains this disclaimer: "Point estimates are based on single train ticket for a single passenger and should be used for estimating purposes only." My question is, what significance does this disclaimer have on the above calculations for the new program? In other words, if the total price of the bedroom with two occupants is shown as $1,100 on amtrak.com, does the disclaimer (as to the AGR calculation being for a "single passenger") mean that it would not be accurate because the total fare shown is for two passengers? Or, since the $1,100 fare is for the bedroom and 2 passengers, would the calculation, nevertheless be accurate? Any thoughts? (I'm trying to estimate how many points I need to transfer from UR.)
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/25345048-post83.html
Sleeping car travel will be calculated using the prevailing fare, which would reflect the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train may be redeemed using the same process as other coach or sleeping car travel. The vehicle(s) on your reservation will be priced the same as the other portions of the itinerary, and in accordance with standard Amtrak Auto Train policies and procedures. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Auto Train may be redeemed using the same process as other coach or sleeping car travel. The vehicle(s) on your reservation will be priced the same as the other portions of the itinerary, and in accordance with standard Amtrak Auto Train policies and procedures. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Whatever the dollar amount of the redemption is, would be what is used to calculate points required.
Which makes the disclaimer puzzling and confusing. My guess is that AGR wanted to emphasize that unlike the former scheme, where a roomette is (for example) 20,000 points regardless of whether one or two people are traveling in it, the new scheme will result in different points requirements depending on the number of passengers in the accommodation. In other words they didn't want someone looking up the price of a roomette, assuming the passenger count didn't matter, and making an incorrect assumption as to the points needed. However the wording of the disclaimer is poorly phrased...if that is the intended message.
Sep 3, 2015, 2:01 pm
#173
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1
The good news with this new system is we are not tied to whatever version of the trip the Amtrak routing offers. Which will be good. But the bad new... I tried comparing point redeeming formats for an upcoming trip I was saving my points for. It seems under the new plan I would be forced to spend 12,000 more points for a one way than I would have under the old plan. I tried comparing other journeys I may take and it seems the new format requires a LOT more points for the same trip than before. The old (current) point redeeming did have flaws but it was workable.
So to sum up, the new plan seems to be better ONLY for shorter trips but is much worse for the longer ones. I personally never turned in points for short trips preferring to save them for the longer ones. Overall, the new format is actually worse for the guest reward members.
So to sum up, the new plan seems to be better ONLY for shorter trips but is much worse for the longer ones. I personally never turned in points for short trips preferring to save them for the longer ones. Overall, the new format is actually worse for the guest reward members.
Sep 3, 2015, 3:03 pm
#174
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 44
I spoke to two Chase reps, one for my AGR Mastercard and one for my Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa. They told me that my current AGR Chase Mastercard would continue to earn points until the 30th or until the account was transferred to a Chase Freedom card. The Chase Freedom card will not earn any AGR points nor could the points be transferred to AGR.
HOWEVER, if you are a Chase Sapphire Preferred cardholder, they will still be able to transfer points to AGR. Chase Sapphire Preferred cards earn Chase Ultimate Rewards Points that can then be converted 1:1 to a number of frequent flyer programs, including AGR. As far as the two reps I spoke with know, those points will still be transferable with no changes planned.
The Chase Sapphire is free for the first year and then $95 a year after that, but you earn 2 pts for dining and travel and 1 pt for all other transactions. If you dine out or spend money on anything considered a travel expense (which can include taxis, parking lots, commuter programs, airline tickets, etc... but strangely not gas) it may be worth it to you. If anyone wants a referral I'd be happy to send one. It's a 40,000 bonus point card if you spend 4k over the first 3 months. These are obviously not tier qualifying points.
I may wait on the BOA card until they do a decent bonus points offer, unless they do something nice out of the gate. I'm not a fan of BOA's business practices so unless they do more than just 2pts for Amtrak travel and 1pt for everything else, it will probably just sit in a drawer.
HOWEVER, if you are a Chase Sapphire Preferred cardholder, they will still be able to transfer points to AGR. Chase Sapphire Preferred cards earn Chase Ultimate Rewards Points that can then be converted 1:1 to a number of frequent flyer programs, including AGR. As far as the two reps I spoke with know, those points will still be transferable with no changes planned.
The Chase Sapphire is free for the first year and then $95 a year after that, but you earn 2 pts for dining and travel and 1 pt for all other transactions. If you dine out or spend money on anything considered a travel expense (which can include taxis, parking lots, commuter programs, airline tickets, etc... but strangely not gas) it may be worth it to you. If anyone wants a referral I'd be happy to send one. It's a 40,000 bonus point card if you spend 4k over the first 3 months. These are obviously not tier qualifying points.
I may wait on the BOA card until they do a decent bonus points offer, unless they do something nice out of the gate. I'm not a fan of BOA's business practices so unless they do more than just 2pts for Amtrak travel and 1pt for everything else, it will probably just sit in a drawer.
Sep 3, 2015, 3:10 pm
#175
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: MSY
Programs: BA GfL
Posts: 5,925
I may wait on the BOA card until they do a decent bonus points offer, unless they do something nice out of the gate. I'm not a fan of BOA's business practices so unless they do more than just 2pts for Amtrak travel and 1pt for everything else, it will probably just sit in a drawer.
Sep 3, 2015, 4:26 pm
#176
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,092
According to AGR Insider--official rep of AGR here on the forum--this is not the case, and Chase UR points will continue to be transferable "until further notice". This doesn't mean forever, but it does indicate that there will be some further notice of the termination of UR transfer to AGR.
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Sep 3, 2015, 9:20 pm
#178
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 22
According to AGR Insider--official rep of AGR here on the forum--this is not the case, and Chase UR points will continue to be transferable "until further notice". This doesn't mean forever, but it does indicate that there will be some further notice of the termination of UR transfer to AGR.
Sep 3, 2015, 10:04 pm
#179
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,135
Right. It could come to a sudden stop on Sept. 30, or even on Sept. 12[?] when the new AGR co-branded card is rolled out.
Sep 4, 2015, 5:30 am
#180
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: MSY
Programs: BA GfL
Posts: 5,925
That's exactly my view. I was careful in my post to say "I believe the Chase SP transfer option will vanish," because that is, in fact, what I believe will happen!