jetsetter

Hi,
I wonder if anyone can describe the layout of the tracks and entrances at NYP? I mostly use NYP for AE and Regional, but others may find description for the other railroads helpful. I am looking for general information, but these are some of the things I am thinking about:
1. What is the range of track numbers at NYP?
2. Some (which?) track numbers have east and west boarding gate designations. Are all of the west gates & all of the east gates in certain respective sections or levels? Is there an escallator at both ends of an east & west track?
3. What is the mezanine boarding strategy?
4. Are announcements for trains made throughout the station, or only in certain areas?
5. I am told that Arrow does not display track numbers, so hence the track number is not in the iPhone app, Julie, etc. Can agents look up track numbers in Arrow, or do they refer to a different system?
6. Once I traveled from BOS to NYP, exitted the train, and accessed the concourse via stairs. Are there escallators at each end of the track, and also sets of stairs in other locations?
7. Would Amtrak tend to use the East or West gates to tracks, or does it just vary?
8. Any other tips for navigating, using, and having the best possible experience at NYP?

I tried to find some of this on Wikepedia but there is not good documentation, and only maps rather than a text description of the layout.

Thanks!

AlanB

The tracks are numbered 1-21, with #1 being on the south side of the station nearest 31st Street and #21 on the north side near 33rd Street. NJ Transit has exclusive use of tracks 1-4 and shares with Amtrak 5-14. The LIRR has exclusive access to tracks 17-21 and shares tracks with Amtrak through 12 I believe.

All gates marked East & West exist only within the Amtrak waiting area. The east & west relates to which side of the main Amtrak area they are on, not where they come down on the platform. All Amtrak gates come down more on the west side/center of the platform, or the 8th Avenue side.

Not all have escalators on both the east & west sides, all though most do. East/West gates serve tracks 5-17 IIRC.

That's where one boards from the middle level below the Amtrak level. NYP has two levels.

All Amtrak & NJT announcements are made by the same person and they are heard only in the main Amtrak area, the main NJT area by 7th Avenue, and on the mezzanine level up to around the gate for tracks 10 & 11.

The LIRR has their own announcer and their announcements are only heard on the lower level in the LIRR boarding areas, typically tracks higher than 12.

ARROW has nothing to do with track numbers or dispatching. Agents are provided with a special monitor that shows tracks numbers from PSCC (Penn Station Control Center) the dispatch center for the station and its approach tracks.

Most, but not all platforms have at least 2 escalators, some have 3, and some even 4. The shortest platforms, the southernmost & northernmost have the least number of escalators. While the longest platforms, the middle ones, tend to have more.

Varies based upon what other trains are arriving/loading and with escalators considered. For example, tracks 5/6 only have an escalator on the east gate and 7/8 only have one on the west gate.

jetsetter

Thanks Allen for answering all the questions so quickly!

So the NYP levels are:
Level 1: Lowest level for tracks only;
Level 2: Mezanine level, is anything else in particular on this level eg NJ railroad?
Level 3: Amtrak level

I'm assuming both Level 2 and 3 have shops, restaurants, etc. and that the Club Acela is on the Amtrak Level 3? The level 1, lowest level underground, is tracks only without any ticket counters, shopss, restaurants, etc.

Recently I was on the Mezanine level and an Amtrak Acela train was boarding at track 8. There was a door leading to an escallator from the mezanine level going down one level to track 8. The escallator was actually operating so that it was an up escallator, but I was able to push the stop button and walk down, there did not seem to be a staircase right next to the escallator. You accessed the escallator via a set of double doors from this Mezanine level.

I'm assuming at the other end of this track 8 there would be another escallator from the 3rd Amtrak level, which they can run in either direction depending on if people are detraining or boarding.

Also for this track 8 you have the mezanine access point, and then on the Amtrak side would you have east, west, or both for track 8?

If you board from the mezanine level there is no east or west gate distinction, it is just the track numbers?

AlanB

The LIRR occupies most of level 2, along with many shops & food places. Level 2 has one long corridor that runs east/west between 7th & 8th Ave's. This is where the bulk of the stores are accessed from, and tracks 20/21. Running north/south connecting like 3 T's are the LIRR/East End concourse hall, the Central Concourse, and the Exit Concourse.

The LIRR/East is the main area for the LIRR, it's waiting rooms are off this corridor. One goes up about 5 or 6 steps after track 11 IIRC to reach the East Concourse, a mid level or if you prefer a half level, which is where the NJT waiting area boards at. This corridor is closest to 7th Avenue and the eastern end of the station.

The Central as its name implies is in the center and it serves only the LIRR. Technically if you knew what track your NJT or Amtrak train was on, and assuming it was track 11 or higher, you could still board your train from this corridor. But you will not hear any Amtrak/NJT announcement here, only LIRR.

The exit corridor is on the west/8th Avenue side of the station. This is the only corridor in the entire train station that actually serves every track without a mid-level. At the southern end or 31st Street side you'll hear Amtrak/NJT announcements and monitors showing those trains are available. At the northern end or 33rd. Street side it's all LIRR, along with some shops.

Level 3 is technically Amtrak on the 8th Avenue side and NJT on the 7th Avenue side. Again however, announcements are combined for both on this level and you can board both from either side. Shops & stores exist on this level too.

Correct.

To my recollection of things, the only doors are in the NJT area, that sort of mid-level that I mentioned above. The NJT area has this rather distinct pink Italian marble all over the place.

And you should never stop an escalator. They are supposed to run up at all times, except when a train has been announced and station personnel reverse it, so that arriving passengers can get off the platform. If someone saw you hit that button, you'd probably get quite a lecture.

Tracks 7-8 would have 3 escalators, one in the NJT area, one off the exit corridor, and one at the west gate in the Amtrak area. East gate is stairs. Also the NJT area would have 1 set of stairs and the exit corridor has stairs off the east side.

Correct.

AlanB

Jetsetter,

I know that you said that you had seen maps of NYP, but maybe you haven't seen these or even if you have they may still help you and others visualize some of what I've described above.

The first is the actual track map for NYP.

http://forums.railfan.net/Images//Pa...s/penn_sta.jpg

The second is a rather nice and detailed map of the various levels and it even shows how the various corridors sit over the platforms.

http://jasongibbs.com/pennstation/

The latter is also available as a PDF, should you wish to blow things up to see them better, or even put it on a smart phone for a handy reference when you're at NYP.

http://jasongibbs.com/projects/penns...n_20120914.pdf

jackal

Thanks for those! Those are by far the best maps of Penn I've ever seen. (I'd love to see a comprehensive 3D map of the entirety of Penn Station, but I haven't found one yet.)

I'd love to save the PDF one to my phone, but the link you provided gives a 404/permissions error.

I have spent a cumulative several hours walking every inch of Penn that I could find, and I still get lost. I can get where I need to go and have some of the basic routes down, but for some reason, I just fail at creating a good mental map of the place that sticks with me.

AlanB

Strange, it works for me. However, if you follow the other link for the map of the various levels, at the top of the page in the left hand corner just above the first image of the top level of NYP the author included a link to the PDF there. So hopefully that works for you.

jackal

Thanks.

Doubly weird: I click the PDF link in your post and got the same permissions error. Then I went to the map page and clicked the PDF link there, and it worked. Then I went back to the PDF link in your post (just to be sure they were the same) and suddenly it worked.

AlanB

Wonder if the first page sets some sort of cookie that the PDF link need. So if you try to go directly to the PDF without first visiting regular page it fails.

ByeByeDelta

I had the exact same issue. 403 forbidden when I linked from this post, then it worked after I clicked from their site.

I suspect they have hotlinking protection enabled. The server checks the referring page and if it isn't from that server access is blocked. It's a throwback to the days of expensive bandwidth. Site A would embed ("hotlink") images in their webpages that are actually hosted on Site B. This caused Site B to pay for the bandwidth to deliver those images to Site A's visitors. Hence hotlinking protection which blocks Site A visitors from loading images on Site B. If you go to Site B, the images work fine. Not something you see very often these days.

jackal

I wasn't going to post anything more on this since we're so OT, but if the mod of the forum is going to continue the off-topicness, I will, too.

I did notice that the actual link that downloads the PDF on the static page is actually:

http://jasongibbs.com/pennstation/download.php

I wonder if the PHP script does something that unlocks permissions for the file to be downloaded.

If the site owner is *that* worried about bandwidth, I'll throw it up on my S3 bucket. I don't mind paying half a cent a month for FTers to be able to have easy access to it.

jetsetter

http://dv.njtransit.com/mobile/tid-mobile.aspx?sid=NY

In doing some online research, I came across the above site that appears to display at least NJ Transit and Amtrak departure information including track numbers.

DCA writer

Sometime after early December, the food/beverage counter got spruced up with a new countertop and a backdrop of subway tiles. There's also a new fridge on top. It's a very small improvement, but at least it shows Amtrak is willing to spend some money on the place.

vatraveler

It's an improvement if you like Pepsi or Diet Pepsi. Ginger ale or OJ if you're lucky.

TheVig

I'm thankful for this thread. It seems to answer questions / concerns I have about NY Penn Station. Wife and I will be going thru Penn Station via Amtrak coming up in October.