tmapian

Long story short: I had my card # comprimised the beginning of the month, and had about $500 in fraudlent charges, mostly for internet service providers (Yahoo, Match.com, godaddy). AMEX closed the account, and issued chargebacks on all of the charges. So far so good. Yesterday, I received a letter from AMEX telling me that Yahoo Small Business contested the chargeback and provided "proof" that the charge was valid, and as a result AMEX was siding with Yahoo small business and re-instating $200 in charges. What was their proof? A screen shot of the transaction page, containing:
-The wrong billing address, including a fake zip code
-A Blank CVV2 field
-A Transaction date of 9/7, 4 days AFTER AMEX closed my account

I called AMEX to dispute the re-instatment of the charge and was told I had to contact the vendor...but then Yahoo small business refuses to give me any information, and says it's between me and my bank. So then I call AMEX, and again they refuse to do anything and refer me to Yahoo. I ask for a supervisor, and he says that the case is closed, and that they feel Yahoo provided enough evidence to show that it was a valid charge. After pointing out that an incorrect billing address was used, AND a fake zip code, and much arguing about how AMEX's actions violates the spirit (if not their contract) of fraud protection, they agreed to open an appeal, with the stipulation I fax a document proving that I wasn't responsible for the charge (how do you prove that you DIDN'T do something??).

I am shocked that AMEX would even allow this charge in the first place given the wrong billing address and zip code, and even more shocked that they seem to be planning to force me to swallow the loss. My favorite part is, the email used to create the account is a @yahoo.ca, one would think that AMEX would at least ask Yahoo to do some IP checking on that. With the amount I pay in fees per year, you would think that they would remove the $200 as a goodwill gesture just to keep me as a customer - but, as it stands now - they will likely be losing my business- and the > $200 i pay per year in annual fees.

sbm12

I've had AmEx deny me once on a dispute. I called in to appeal and they sent me a letter in the mail. I filled it out, ha dit notarized and sent it back. Before I even got it back in the mail they reversed their decision but it really isn't that big a deal. Simply state what you've already stated in the letter and send it in.

climbermom

IMO, I believe that Amex's bottom line is affecting how they manage disputes.

Centurion

Do not get worked up. Just write your letter get it notorized if necessary and relax.

Steve M

You fill out, sign, and have notarized an Affidavit of Fraud, as others have suggested. At that point, the ball really is in Amex's (and by inference the vendor) to prove that the charge was valid.

It's up to the merchant, not Amex, to make this decision. Many merchants that collect the address data don't verify it with the bank. And, even if they collect the security code, some merchants verify it only with Visa/MC and not Amex.

It's just bureaucracy you're dealing with. Everyone you've dealt with so far is going through the motions, seeing that the "did the merchant affirm the charge?" checkbox is checked and following the procedure based on that. Based on your appeal, you should be able to get your situation in front of someone that can use judgment to make a decision.

Amex Customer Care

Hi tmapian,

It’s Beth from Amex Customer Care.

I apologize for the inconvenience this matter has caused you.

I would be happy to review the investigation. Please understand when the dispute is opened our Customer Service Department will contact the merchant requesting itemization of the charge(s). The itemization we receive from the merchant is then sent to you for review. If there is a discrepancy in the information we will re-open the investigation and contact the merchant again. I’m not sure why the representative did not re-open the investigation, however if you would send me an email via our Secure Message Center I would be happy to research this matter further.

Please log in to our Secure Message Center at:

www.americanexpress.com/messagecenter

If you are not registered to access your account online, simply click on the “continue” box located on the right to create a User ID and password.

After logging in, simply click on the box “Compose A Message” and select “General Inquiries” for “Choose a Topic.” If you address your email to me – Beth/flyertalk – I will personally receive your email and respond directly to you.

I look forward to hearing from you. It is my pleasure to assist you.

broadwayblue

I'm pretty shocked as well. AMEX has always come down on my side of the few disputes I've had over the years. But how this "proof" could cause them to reverse their decision is quite odd to say the least.

tmapian

OP here with an update - AMEX eventually reversed their decision and removed the charge due to it "clearly being fraud" (AMEX service reps words). So, in the end, they did the right thing - but only after multiple attempts to force them to. I wonder how many people would have just given up and swallow the loss, saying "well, it's only $100", but I'm sure thats what they are counting on, which is dissapointing

frank_10b

If yahoo is a partner with AMEX this would make sense, I have also found this with Hertz. Their new motto to corporate partners is basically, AMEX will have your back and screw the cardholders or small biz owners....

Nevsky

I am not surprised. I have had a lot of problems with AMEX Customer Service recently. It has taken me weeks to get problems resolved that used to be resolved in one call and generally the people are not that helpful and do not follow-through. I do not know if it is just cutbacks or new policies, but being a long-term AMEX customer, I definitely see the difference.

Among other issues, I had security people calling me and then being connected to the Philippines for long conversations. I knew more than they did and they finally determine that the card was already canceled and a new card issued, which I already knew. They just wasted lots of my time.

I even had a person in the Platinum retention department claiming that I never received an offer with respect to the Delta Card, claiming there never was such an offer that I had a copy of right in my hand.

I could go on and on with the frustrations.

Frankly they would save themselves more money if they went back to the old system and solved problems in one call. Plus they leave me with a bad impression of the company as now run.

frank_10b

it seems to me the more they try to dig themselves out of the hole the more they dig deeper, remember how they use to slam walmart shopers and then when it came out opps! here is 20 to shop at walmart...

Kamron

I am sorry to bring up an old topic, but I am having a hard time with Amex Dispute resolution as well. In my particular case, I reopened a dispute after Amex received a response from the merchant claiming that I was committing fraud and they should not be held liable to a violation of their no-refund policy. The merchant also claimed that I incurred the company several thousand of dollars in extra marketing and administrative costs.

I will admit that the merchant wrote the response beautifully, albeit was nasty and 90% BS. I literally threw up after reading it. They obviously did not incur any extra costs otherwise they would have submitted proof of this. They claimed that I did not submit emails showing their good faith, yet they failed to submit the emails themselves because the emails don't exist.

I was treated like crap by the merchant and essentially strung along until the end where the merchant pulled the "no-refund policy" on me. Hell they even lied to Amex saying that their return policy was on the email confirmation when it wasn't. They even went so far as to say that I was making unreasonable demands and that they were being accommodating when in reality I was simply asking for the service to be performed as I originally paid.

Upon reopening the dispute, I spoke with a representative from the office of the president of Consumer Relations who told me to fax in a detailed response refuting each point in the 27 page claim against me. I asked him how to refute allegations of fraud and using internet services that accompanied the services I never received, which I also never used. He told me to do the best I could. He also informed me that even though he represents the president of consumer relations, there is no way to get in contact with the dispute department, and that he has no pull in terms of their decisions. For the record, he agrees with me that I should get my money back. I asked him if I should send a letter to his boss, and he assured me that it would most likely fall of deaf ears. I also asked the representative, and subsequently called customer service again and asked them to send me a legible copy of the merchant's response. The original that I received from American Express was a letterhead print out of a copy of a fax. Also the pages were not printed out in order and some backs went to other fronts. It was a complete mess.

Despite never receiving a legible copy, I submitted my second response and received a notice two weeks later saying that they closed the case because they could not get in contact with me and are therefore upholding the merchant's no-refund policy and will not open the case again. The letter also explained that I should contact the merchant to attempt to get a refund.

I'll be honest. This whole situation makes me sick to my stomach, especially since I don't have $1000 to throw around. I even addressed my response to Douglas DiPaola, the vice president of dispute resolutions from the Amex offices in Ft Lauderdale. So not only did my response not get to his office, but I received a response by mail saying that they didn't get anything at all.

Why does American Express have a dispute department if they will blatantly tell their customers that they cannot force a merchant to do anything? OBVIOUSLY a merchant will ALWAYS say no to a refund. Reminds me of someone on TV who was drugged and charged over $45,000 at an exclusive club. It wasn't until after he got the FBI involved that American Express acknowledged that the person wasn't lying about being drugged and taken advantage of by what turned out to be a Russian Mafia organized crime scheme. Hell, I would say no too if I was the merchant and I knew I could get away with it.

To make matters worse, American Express informed me that merchant is held to the laws pertaining to the sale of goods and services in the state that they reside. I purchased a service via a website that was to be executed in California. If American Express doesn't know how to apply the law properly (which in this case is California's jurisdiction, not New York), then how they can make a proper decision?

How can American Express wrongly allow a merchant to hide behind a no-refund policy despite deceptive bait-and-switch sales tactics simply because it suits them? It really pains me to believe that just because I am not a high profile customer, I should be treated like those "buyer beware" signs from the early 20th century when there were no consumer laws.

I would like to believe that American Express is at least a LITTLE bit better than other card companies. I can understand that because of the economy, I lost ALL of my benefits on that particular card but I should also lose my sense of loyalty as well? If this is the case then I should go back to my piece of crap Chase Freedom card where I know the company is completely worthless and I don't have to file a dispute to find out.

Centurion

Write another letter asking the dispute be re-opened. You are dealing with one of the highest rated credit/charge card companies when it comes to dispute issues. But if the merchant has proof and your claim is skeptical good luck.

They do not come any better than Amex today...Years ago you could claim Dinners club was better.

Kamron

The only proof is that they have a no-refund policy. I know in my heart that I was screwed by the merchant and its sad that when the merchant made outrageous claims with no evidence, it doesn't really matter because of the no-refund policy.
As it stands right now, I cannot use their service anymore because its time sensitive in nature which is also the reason I had to go with a competitor. I never received the service and I have to pay the $1000 bill. Of course the merchant claimed that the service was always available that I backed out. Its a long story but I was jerked around and they baited-switched me and after I asked for a refund, they rescinded the bait-switch. Right now the merchant never lost anything either except the time it took them to write the nasty letter to American Express.

Centurion

Relax and try and write a very short letter as I suggested with no "screw" words etc. In my opinion it also helps if you still are a Amex card holder and user. The longer you are with amex the better. One of the few times that member since 19xx or 20xx means anything.