Closed AmEx cards and lost all MR miles! Help!!!
Apr 23, 2009, 3:35 am
#16
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany
Programs: Miles & More, Amex
Posts: 678
AMEX is - as the other credit card companies - in a difficult financial situation and 1 million points mean a lot of money. I honestly doubt that you will see them again. If you are extremely lucky, then expect only a small percentage to show up again.
As already mentioned, there are rules which are part of a contract you made with AMEX. If you fail to read & know the basic rules then you cannot expect AMEX to bend them for you. I personally would expect the points to expire upon the expiry of the card. After that, you don't have any valid contract with AMEX any longer. 30 days are more than customer friendly.
As already mentioned, there are rules which are part of a contract you made with AMEX. If you fail to read & know the basic rules then you cannot expect AMEX to bend them for you. I personally would expect the points to expire upon the expiry of the card. After that, you don't have any valid contract with AMEX any longer. 30 days are more than customer friendly.
Apr 23, 2009, 7:27 am
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: SkyMiles MM, HHonors Gold, Avis, Hertz
Posts: 521
I happened to pick my moniker 10 yrs ago, when I was a junkie. I was traveling like crazy and getting miles by the boat-load. It all came to a halt, for number of reasons, after 9/11. In fact, I have not posted on this forum for years, since I don't travel any more. Glad you know "such a fundamental thing", it's no longer "fundamental" in my life. :-(
To all those who wonder how a "million-miler" in MR can overlook such an obvious rule, all I can say in my meek defense -- who knew that closing card(s), for purely financial reasons, would end participation in Membership Rewards program? Sure I would stop earning miles....But why would it vacate me belonging to the program? I'm not sure such mechanisms even exist in other programs - how do I "close" My SkyMiles "membership"? Or My HHonors one? Maybe there are steps to accomplish that, but certainly they are not related to credit cards, for example. Me thinks...Again, not a defense or excuse, just an explanation.
Apr 23, 2009, 8:07 am
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: SkyMiles MM, HHonors Gold, Avis, Hertz
Posts: 521
I don't quite understand the attitude of "I did not bother to read the rules nor think about what I did, surely I should not have to pay the consequences." For crying out loud, Amex even had a thirty day grace period.
I would think the only reasonable way for the OP to get the points back is to rejoin.
Cheers,
T.
I would be happy to re-join AmEx, be that Plat, Gold, Silver, or plain Green.All I am asking (and seem to get some sympathy, at least from posters here) is - is it possible? If yes, how?
Finnally, for all those high and mighty who remind me to read the small print: I presume you have read each and every letter of all membership programs you joined in the last 15 yrs, and all credit card agreements for all cards you opened since High School? Therefore, you never had your miles/points disappear, credit limit decreased, interest rate jacked up, etc?
If you can honestly say "yes" to all of it......I envy you. :-)
As always, thank you for support.
Apr 23, 2009, 10:06 am
#19
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 194
To all those who wonder how a "million-miler" in MR can overlook such an obvious rule, all I can say in my meek defense -- who knew that closing card(s), for purely financial reasons, would end participation in Membership Rewards program? Sure I would stop earning miles....But why would it vacate me belonging to the program? I'm not sure such mechanisms even exist in other programs - how do I "close" My SkyMiles "membership"? Or My HHonors one? Maybe there are steps to accomplish that, but certainly they are not related to credit cards, for example. Me thinks...Again, not a defense or excuse, just an explanation.
And again HHonors is not a CC rewards program, it is run by Hilton. Your AMEX HH affinity card deposits point AMEX buys from Hilton into your Hilton Honors account. Hotel programs have different rules. So as long as you obey Hilton's rules, your points remain.
MR is a CC run rewards program. No CC rewards programs allow you to keep your points balance after closing your cards. And as we've stated to you already, AMEX even has a 30 day grace period when other issuers will take your points away the second you close the account.
You really need to take a step back and realize that this was 100% your fault and AMEX has no obligation to give their, yes their points now, read the T&Cs, to you, an ex-client who has essentially fired them. It's hard for me, and others, to give you sympathy when pretty much everyone knows that closing a CC account forefiets any outstanding rewards points.
Apr 23, 2009, 11:29 am
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Programs: DL GM, AA Gold, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Plat
Posts: 12,171
I didn't see any entitlement in your post, and if you're seeking sympathy for making a dumb mistake, you have it from me.
Again, the Executive offices are your only prayer. Send a copy of your last statement with a huge, OMG, what did I do? and offer them a deal: Please reinstate my points and I'll give you a ton of business. If they take you up on it, great. Live up to your end of the deal and party down. If not, you're only out 30 min or so and a stamp.
Again, the Executive offices are your only prayer. Send a copy of your last statement with a huge, OMG, what did I do? and offer them a deal: Please reinstate my points and I'll give you a ton of business. If they take you up on it, great. Live up to your end of the deal and party down. If not, you're only out 30 min or so and a stamp.
Apr 23, 2009, 2:25 pm
#21
Join Date: Jan 2008
Programs: Continental, United, AA
Posts: 324
Ummm, "Skymiles" is not a CC rewards program, it is run by Delta. Your AMEX Delta affinity card deposits point AMEX buys from Detla into your Delta account. Airline mile accounts have different rules. Some of then expire after a few years of not flying on their airline (Southwest) and some have no expiration dates. It's you responsibility to know the T&Cs of each carrier you have points with.
And again HHonors is not a CC rewards program, it is run by Hilton. Your AMEX HH affinity card deposits point AMEX buys from Hilton into your Hilton Honors account. Hotel programs have different rules. So as long as you obey Hilton's rules, your points remain.
MR is a CC run rewards program. No CC rewards programs allow you to keep your points balance after closing your cards. And as we've stated to you already, AMEX even has a 30 day grace period when other issuers will take your points away the second you close the account.
You really need to take a step back and realize that this was 100% your fault and AMEX has no obligation to give their, yes their points now, read the T&Cs, to you, an ex-client who has essentially fired them. It's hard for me, and others, to give you sympathy when pretty much everyone knows that closing a CC account forefiets any outstanding rewards points.
And again HHonors is not a CC rewards program, it is run by Hilton. Your AMEX HH affinity card deposits point AMEX buys from Hilton into your Hilton Honors account. Hotel programs have different rules. So as long as you obey Hilton's rules, your points remain.
MR is a CC run rewards program. No CC rewards programs allow you to keep your points balance after closing your cards. And as we've stated to you already, AMEX even has a 30 day grace period when other issuers will take your points away the second you close the account.
You really need to take a step back and realize that this was 100% your fault and AMEX has no obligation to give their, yes their points now, read the T&Cs, to you, an ex-client who has essentially fired them. It's hard for me, and others, to give you sympathy when pretty much everyone knows that closing a CC account forefiets any outstanding rewards points.
She messed up, recognized it, and asked for help solving the problem. She didn't once demand anything or indicate any degree of entitlement. Ever make a mistake? @:-)
Apr 23, 2009, 10:26 pm
#22
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 445
I agree, it was a mistake! One of the companies I had to email the CEO was Tmobile - my daughter had texted to the tune of 600.00. We should have known better but didnt, I couldnt afford to pay but knew the contract and just called and asked for some sympathy. I told them straight up, we goofed - they did not hesitate to tell me they would "make it right" and they cleared the debt.
I am not happy with American Express at all -- they are doing their customers ugly. However, one can ask. What is the worst that could happen? They could say no... or .......... the best that could happen? They could say SURE NO PROBLEM~~ In the perfect world.
I say send an email - we ALL make mistakes~ good luck~!
I am not happy with American Express at all -- they are doing their customers ugly. However, one can ask. What is the worst that could happen? They could say no... or .......... the best that could happen? They could say SURE NO PROBLEM~~ In the perfect world.
I say send an email - we ALL make mistakes~ good luck~!
Last edited by Stars4SA; Apr 23, 2009 at 10:26 pm Reason: typo
Apr 24, 2009, 1:19 am
#23
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Programs: M&M SEN, Amex Plat, Club Carlson, Marriott, HHonors & Accor Gold, Velocity Silver, Qantas Bronze
Posts: 3,767
Thank you for understanding, dear! ;-) And tolerance. :-)
I happened to pick my moniker 10 yrs ago, when I was a junkie. I was traveling like crazy and getting miles by the boat-load. It all came to a halt, for number of reasons, after 9/11. In fact, I have not posted on this forum for years, since I don't travel any more. Glad you know "such a fundamental thing", it's no longer "fundamental" in my life. :-(
To all those who wonder how a "million-miler" in MR can overlook such an obvious rule, all I can say in my meek defense -- who knew that closing card(s), for purely financial reasons, would end participation in Membership Rewards program? Sure I would stop earning miles....But why would it vacate me belonging to the program? I'm not sure such mechanisms even exist in other programs - how do I "close" My SkyMiles "membership"? Or My HHonors one? Maybe there are steps to accomplish that, but certainly they are not related to credit cards, for example. Me thinks...Again, not a defense or excuse, just an explanation.
I happened to pick my moniker 10 yrs ago, when I was a junkie. I was traveling like crazy and getting miles by the boat-load. It all came to a halt, for number of reasons, after 9/11. In fact, I have not posted on this forum for years, since I don't travel any more. Glad you know "such a fundamental thing", it's no longer "fundamental" in my life. :-(
To all those who wonder how a "million-miler" in MR can overlook such an obvious rule, all I can say in my meek defense -- who knew that closing card(s), for purely financial reasons, would end participation in Membership Rewards program? Sure I would stop earning miles....But why would it vacate me belonging to the program? I'm not sure such mechanisms even exist in other programs - how do I "close" My SkyMiles "membership"? Or My HHonors one? Maybe there are steps to accomplish that, but certainly they are not related to credit cards, for example. Me thinks...Again, not a defense or excuse, just an explanation.
Och I love people who blame everything on 9/11!!! Why not to blame it on Saddam? Or Bush? Or Obama?I am sorry, mate, but it is also logical - why should AMEX give you anything for free if you are not AMEX's customer anymore. So even if you forget, or it is no longer fundamental in your life, just using your brain should be sufficient.
When mentioning frequent flyer programs, don't foreget, that many of them cancel your miles after you fail to keep your status and if you do not have status, miles are valid for limited time only... You do not need to bother to close your SkyMiles, they will do it for you
Apr 24, 2009, 11:00 am
#24
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: SkyMiles MM, HHonors Gold, Avis, Hertz
Posts: 521
vbroucek:Och I love people who blame everything on 9/11!!! Why not to blame it on Saddam? Or Bush? Or Obama?
How can you, having NO IDEA what happened, to my business, my position, or my travel patterns, can deduce that 9/11 was the reason for the change?! Amazing!!!
I know a dozen or so colleagues who stopped traveling after 9/11, for a number of reasons. And when most of us say "stopped", it means that instead of weekly trips, we now travel monthly or quarterly. When we used to be Platinum, we now barely make Silver. And so on.
How can you, having NO IDEA what happened, to my business, my position, or my travel patterns, can deduce that 9/11 was the reason for the change?! Amazing!!!
I know a dozen or so colleagues who stopped traveling after 9/11, for a number of reasons. And when most of us say "stopped", it means that instead of weekly trips, we now travel monthly or quarterly. When we used to be Platinum, we now barely make Silver. And so on.
Last edited by MileJunkie; Apr 24, 2009 at 11:02 am Reason: spelling
Apr 24, 2009, 11:01 am
#25
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 75
Milesjunkie
sorry for your loss. I would right a formal business letter, brief, to the point, claiming your responsibility, asking for any consideration they might have in the matter - and send it to the office of the CEO. I would send it registered mail for the few extra dollars - it says that you care about this situation.
I had an issue with another big corp. and the company and I came to a mutually acceptable arrangement. The above steps are what I followed.
good luck.
sorry for your loss. I would right a formal business letter, brief, to the point, claiming your responsibility, asking for any consideration they might have in the matter - and send it to the office of the CEO. I would send it registered mail for the few extra dollars - it says that you care about this situation.
I had an issue with another big corp. and the company and I came to a mutually acceptable arrangement. The above steps are what I followed.
good luck.
Apr 24, 2009, 12:13 pm
#26
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Northwest NJ
Programs: Starwood Platinum,Marriott Platinum, United Silver
Posts: 2,313
I find myself often amazed by the contents and tone of comments made on bulletin boards. People will write things in a way they would NEVER communicate in person.
When I think of what I could do with a million points......
I just don't understand how someone could call AMEX to cancel a card and that the representative would not say, "oh wait - do you realize that if you close this card, you will lose all of your accrued points?" As a dentist, just because someone asks me to do something, that doesn't mean I have been relieved of my responsibility to point out the potential downsides to the patient's choice or desire.
To those who felt the need to kick the OP when he was clearly already down, I hope you all remain perfect in how you lead your own lives.
When I think of what I could do with a million points......
I just don't understand how someone could call AMEX to cancel a card and that the representative would not say, "oh wait - do you realize that if you close this card, you will lose all of your accrued points?" As a dentist, just because someone asks me to do something, that doesn't mean I have been relieved of my responsibility to point out the potential downsides to the patient's choice or desire.
To those who felt the need to kick the OP when he was clearly already down, I hope you all remain perfect in how you lead your own lives.
Apr 24, 2009, 12:48 pm
#27
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 445
I find myself often amazed by the contents and tone of comments made on bulletin boards. People will write things in a way they would NEVER communicate in person.
When I think of what I could do with a million points......
I just don't understand how someone could call AMEX to cancel a card and that the representative would not say, "oh wait - do you realize that if you close this card, you will lose all of your accrued points?" As a dentist, just because someone asks me to do something, that doesn't mean I have been relieved of my responsibility to point out the potential downsides to the patient's choice or desire.
To those who felt the need to kick the OP when he was clearly already down, I hope you all remain perfect in how you lead your own lives.
When I think of what I could do with a million points......
I just don't understand how someone could call AMEX to cancel a card and that the representative would not say, "oh wait - do you realize that if you close this card, you will lose all of your accrued points?" As a dentist, just because someone asks me to do something, that doesn't mean I have been relieved of my responsibility to point out the potential downsides to the patient's choice or desire.
To those who felt the need to kick the OP when he was clearly already down, I hope you all remain perfect in how you lead your own lives.
Apr 24, 2009, 6:17 pm
#28
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Programs: M&M SEN, Amex Plat, Club Carlson, Marriott, HHonors & Accor Gold, Velocity Silver, Qantas Bronze
Posts: 3,767
Ok, I feel for the OP somehow, but imagine AMEX being your own business. What would you do, if someone who was your customer suddenly quitted and later on wanted from you freebie. Actually ONE BIG freebie! Would you do it? Well, many posters here suggest that you should. OK, you are good and you do it. You create legal precedent. Now, anyone who will write to you for similar freebie and is refused can sue you with reasonably good chance of winning.
Getting my point? We always have to look at things from both sides of the coin. OP wrote that 9/11 influenced his business, his position. So he should know how it is to have own business.
Apr 24, 2009, 6:24 pm
#29
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Northwest NJ
Programs: Starwood Platinum,Marriott Platinum, United Silver
Posts: 2,313
No - I don't get your point. That said, I have no intention of flaming you or anyone else.
I stated my point clearly. Whatever the terms and conditions, I consider it extraordinarily highly unethical that the AMEX rep taking the cancellation phone call did not tell the OP the implications of his action. Business succeed when they serve their customers (or in my case, their patients). Screwing them doesn't help anyone.
But let's take my argument a step further. Let's say I have a patient who prepaid for a decent size treatment plan. For whatever reason, he or she decides to cancel an appointment. Finally they call to let me know they are not proceeding with treatment. Am I supposed to say nothing and hope they don't realize that they have something of value (money) that they're leaving on the table? Am I supposed to hope I can get away with screwing them? Because that is exactly how I see AMEX's behavior in this situation. I think it is beneath contempt.
Finally, these are difficult times to be in most businesses. I know that over the years, I have had a few patients leave the practice because we did not participate in their insurance plan. I had a choice of a few "behaviors." It could be - "screw you, you ingrate!" or, as we chose, "we are sorry to see you go but know we will always be here for you and the door is always open should you find you're not happy." Believe it or not, most of those people we know about have returned. I consider AMEX's behavior to be more along the lines of the first response. On this AMEX board, am I the only one who found it strange that they didn't try to transfer the OP to a retention specialist?! Think maybe they knew the score and were trying to get away with something???
I stated my point clearly. Whatever the terms and conditions, I consider it extraordinarily highly unethical that the AMEX rep taking the cancellation phone call did not tell the OP the implications of his action. Business succeed when they serve their customers (or in my case, their patients). Screwing them doesn't help anyone.
But let's take my argument a step further. Let's say I have a patient who prepaid for a decent size treatment plan. For whatever reason, he or she decides to cancel an appointment. Finally they call to let me know they are not proceeding with treatment. Am I supposed to say nothing and hope they don't realize that they have something of value (money) that they're leaving on the table? Am I supposed to hope I can get away with screwing them? Because that is exactly how I see AMEX's behavior in this situation. I think it is beneath contempt.
Finally, these are difficult times to be in most businesses. I know that over the years, I have had a few patients leave the practice because we did not participate in their insurance plan. I had a choice of a few "behaviors." It could be - "screw you, you ingrate!" or, as we chose, "we are sorry to see you go but know we will always be here for you and the door is always open should you find you're not happy." Believe it or not, most of those people we know about have returned. I consider AMEX's behavior to be more along the lines of the first response. On this AMEX board, am I the only one who found it strange that they didn't try to transfer the OP to a retention specialist?! Think maybe they knew the score and were trying to get away with something???
Last edited by stevens397; Apr 24, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Apr 24, 2009, 7:22 pm
#30
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 445
Nor am I flaming but being an office manager good customer service is my top priority! Yes there still is good customer service. Setting precedent? That is my primary goal - to make my customers happy. If I can do it, I will do it. If I can not do it, I would do whatever humanly possible to make the customer happy. Good customer service keeps the customers returning. In light of American Expresses bad service lately, I would do it in a heartbeat if I were a AE Executive.
Regardless of where the error began, I would try to remedy the situation. Not only good for business but good for my own well being!
(Pay it forward!)
Regardless of where the error began, I would try to remedy the situation. Not only good for business but good for my own well being!
(Pay it forward!)