JAGMAP

I know I'll get reamed for making this argument, but here it goes (prove me wrong, really)...

I have both an AX SPG and an AX Platinum Card. I use my SPG for virtually everything because I can transfer the points to AA for 1pt/1.25miles. Unless AA does away with their MM program (or until I reach 2 MM status), I plan to charge everything on this card.

But I was thinking...Membership Rewards isn't that bad of a program if and only if you take advantage of their bonuses. You get double points for Everyday Purchases in addition to transfer bonuses (it always seems they are offering them). For instance, right now you can transfer your points to AeroMexico with a 25% bonus. I've seen other bonuses for DL & CO ranging from 10-20%. SPG almost NEVER offers double point promotions unless you've either been targeted (as luck would have it, I've been targeted once) or if you pay your taxes with the card (and even that is limited to 5,000).

Anyway, let's say you want to go to Asia or Europe in Business Class. On AA & AeroMexico (using a SkyTeam award - good on NW, KL, DL, etc.), that's 90,000 miles. If you used your SPG card, you'd have to spend approximately $72,000 to get a ticket (72,000 x 1.25). If you transferred your MR Points to AeroMexico with the 25% bonus, you'd have to transfer 72,000 points to get 90,000 miles. In addition, with double points and other bonuses, your charging amount would be [significantly] less than $72,000. Also, if you transferred your MR points to ANA, a Business Class ticket to Japan is only 80,000 miles (what a bargain!). On US Airways (another MR transfer partner), a Business Class ticket to Europe (Star Alliance Award) is 80,000 miles and First Class is 100,000 (on AA it's 125,000!)!

Let's talk about Australia/South Pacific. On American it's 125,000 miles...but again, if you were to transfer your MR Points to Air Canada Aeroplan and use a Star Alliance award, it'd be 100,000 miles (there's the 25% SPG "bonus" for ya).

Think First Class Hawaii awards for 60,000 miles were gone (AA, CO, DL, NW, except UA increased to 75,000)? An AeroMexico SkyTeam award (DL or NW), US Airways Star Alliance award, Air Canada Star Alliance award, etc. all offer it for 60,000 miles.

I could go on and on...So I'm wondering ~ What's so special about the SPG card if you know you can travel for less using MR? I know you can transfer to just about any airline with a 25% bonus, but coupled with MR bonuses (Everyday Spending + Transfer Bonus), doesn't MR come out to be a better deal (assuming you don't care about which airline you fly)? With the advent of airline alliance (OneWorld, Star Alliance, Sky Team), MR really doesn't seem like that bad of a [transfer] program. Also, I've never used (nor do I plan to) my SPG points for hotel stays - so for now - let's ignore this feature(maybe that's my problem). Also, am I wrong to assume that many people get large Everyday Spending bonuses? I come from a large family so lots of groceries, gas, etc. adds up.

I look forward to your comments.

derpelikan

i can trade SPG starpoints against 1.5 airline miles.

this is a better deal for me as i have normally a 2:1 ratio airline mile or amex miles to starwood.

so for every SPG points i will give you 1.5 for example Lufthansa miles.

deal ?

JAGMAP

I'm confused...How do you get 1.5 [Lufthansa] miles/1 Starpoint? I know there is the 5,000 bonus/20,000 Starpoints, for a 25% bonus (1.25 miles/Starpoint). Am I doing something incorrect?

schoflyer

Jagmap:
You're doing nothing wrong.

DP is talking about helping his friends with hotels and them helping him with his flights, I'd imagine. (Or Viceversa)

Scho

BSL

I too have looked at this and think on whole that when earning 1 point per dollar, the SPG point is still more valuable than the MR point.

1) Limited conversion options. AA, UA, etc. I personally have found that no matter what the alliance, it is better to have the miles in the program in which you are looking to redeem (that said, I have sent MR points to MX and redeemed on LH);

2) I never am able to spend enough on "everyday" stuff to make a difference. I have my cell phone bills, and groceries and other everyday purchases run through the Gold Rwds+ as well as airlines and hotels and it is some, but not enough to really make a dent. (But I still take advantage of it as much as possible);

3) Nights and flights award on SPG that gets you 5 nights at a hotel and 50K in points to a SPG partner airline for 60/70K in SPG points.

If you use the N&F award then one way to look the math is:

A. Nights and flights is 60K SPG which gets you 1) 5 nights at a level 3 hotel (lets say 10K of the 60K for that), and 2) 50K for the miles (at a conversion of 50K for that)

B. 40K SPG = 50K airmiles

So assuming that you have 0 miles in your airline balance, you get a 1-1 ratio to net you 100K and the points are in the airline you are looking to fly AA,UA,CO,DL,NW.... AND you have 5 nights at a SPG hotel that would normally be 35K SPG.

If you change the valuation of the 5 nights to 35K, then you will net a ratio of (1-1.33) 35K for the stay and 25K for 50K in A above.

BSL

upgrader

IMHO, the OP has made a reasonable case for the MR program being at least as good as the SPG program if one disregards the hotel stays part of SPG and also does not care that much about which airline or which alliance he/she uses. Of course, those are big "ifs" for some FTers, although not necessarily for me.

One issue I would raise relative to the MR approach is the availability of award flights using the alliances the OP mentions vis a vis availability of award flights using the desired airline per se through the more flexible SPG transfers. For example, with SPG you could transfer to a much greater number of airlines directly and thus have access to a particular airlines award inventory directly. With the MR example the OP uses, you are able to transfer MR points to a much more limited number of airlines and thus are more likely to have to use those airlines' alliance ties for award tickets to where you want to go rather than the airlines own award inventory. Some FTers have reported that often they find there is less award inventory availability on an airlines's alliance flights than on the base airline's flights. On the other hand, I've many times been able to find award availability on Skyteam member flights when I've not been able to find them on DL, my base airline. So who's to say which is better in that respect?

In any case, as one who gets a lot of MR points from the bonus offers on everyday spending, I'm sticking with MR for the time being. I am with the OP in thinking that for some of us, the MR card is at least the match of the SPG card in value.

dspringer28

I think the SPG card and program are great, but I too am sticking with MR for now. I would say about 1/4 of all our spending is getting us 2x MR points and add the fact that Delta (a MR airline) is what I mainly fly and have the most miles with. If you like using points for hotels more than most other things, than that would push it towards SPG. I think it really just comes down to what and how one wants to spend there points.

esofina

Don't forget Amex MR transfer fees. They charge up to $50 for transferring those hard earned MR points into domestic carrier accounts, (Delta, etc.)

Amex SPG doesn't charge these fees, since it is SPG, not AMEX that does the transfer.

Doppy

A couple points:

(1) SPG has better airline options and you can transfer points into your mileage account to "top it off" if you are close, but not quite to the award level you want.

(2) AmEx doesn't always offer the 25% bonus - that only comes up about once a year, and there are no guarantees. Next year it might be gone. And if you need the points in a hurry, you might not have time to wait (and hope) for the bonus offer to come up again.

(3) AmEx charges you a fee (aka "tax") to turn your MR points into airline miles


Personally, double points on "everyday" purchases does me no good at all because I make almost no "everday" purchases. I spend maybe $20 a month on groceries, if that, and I don't have a car.

clanson

I think most people are missing the real value of SPG points. It is of course in the use of their hotels which represents the best value per point.
The conversion to airline partners should be the second consideration but if this is your main interest in accumulating SPG points then the best bang is: Join British Airways Executive Club FF program (get a VISA card from MBNA). Once per year, BA (this year Jan/Feb) they offer 1.5 BA miles for 1 SPG point. When coupled with the 25% bonus from SPG, 20,000 SPG points results in 37,500 BA miles.

BA miles are usable on One World carriers including AA.

When the annual fee $30.00 is taken into consideration for the SPG card, there is no comparison and the SPG card represents far better value.

steveme

Ok hows this for you.

I use Business gold rewards for all my purchases. Last month I racked up around 50k in purchases alone. I racked up around 6k in starwood purchaes on the personal card.

I use Delta skymiles due to the fact that I already have 40k stored up, but its almost impossible to book an award flight through there system. I think most definitely that starwood points for hotels is the best deal going, because you can get a regular room for 2k points anytime. I just wish they had starwood for business without the MR point transfer deduction.

So my question is, what in your opinons is the best was to utilize the MR points. I will be gaining these 60k each month for a while, so I am going to have a ton in a few months. I want to find a better airline transfer 1 to 1 then Delta.

I would like to go to Hawaii or Europe, or possibly to visit a friend in Japan.

JAGMAP

My 3 favorite places on earth If you'll be racking up a lot of MR points, I suggest you only transfer them to programs that have bonuses. Yes, there is a degree of uncertainty, but it's the best deal. I'm sure that it has happened before, but I have never not seen AX offer some sort of bonus to one of their 14 transfer airlines. Currently, Aeromexico (25%) and Delta (up to 20%) have promos. If you'll be getting 50-60K MR points/month, I assume you'd splurge for a premium class for your future travels. DL & CO grossly inflate their premium class mileage prices (DL to North Asia = 140,000 for B/E, whilst most other carriers are only 90K). ...so stay away from DL & CO transfers unless a bonus is offered!

Currently, Aeromexico is the best deal due to the 25% bonus. Skyteam Awards to Hawaii are 60,000 miles (DL & CO independently charge 75,000); Europe is 80,000 miles (DL & CO independently charge 100,000); and North Asia is 90,000 miles (DL=140K, CO=120K). When you decide to travel, I suggest looking up any transfer bonuses. You can automatically cross off El Al, Global Pass, jetBlue, Mexicana, Song, & Southwest since these carriers don't fly to where you want to go [conveniently]. US Airways, Air Canada, and ANA are great Star Alliance members with relatively the same award structure - visit their websites to check the least expensive way to get to your destination. Actual award redemption is something I'm not familiar with but have been told as long as your dates are somewhat flexible you'll be fine. Good luck racking up all those points!!!

TWAforever

I agree that MR can actually get you to most places if you are flexible with dates. I personally like the options through Virgin Atlantic and its partners.

Also, the nice thing about MR is that you can buy points at $25 per 1000 to top up to an award. This is slightly less than the airlines charge and you can go up to a max of 500K points per year, much better than the 25K per year that most airlines usually allow. This benefit isn't overly publicized.

steveme

Thanks for the advice. I think based on this I will use both Starwood and Business Gold for Business as my base cards, that way I can rack up both room and flight points instead of just using MR points. You say DL has the 20 point bonus transfer, and Aeromexico has 25%, but are Aeromexico's normal rates always lower then DL making it sort of a double dip on savings. I have been looking for about 6 months on Delta for a good award ticket but the only times ever available are red-eyes or crazy layovers. And they keep pushing the skysaver which doubles your award points.

DH

Hmmm, looks like you are looking up the old award chart. Check out the current chard at https://www.delta.com/skymiles/use/s...t_us/index.jsp

DL requires 75K miles to Hawaii, 90K to Europe and 120K to N Asia, just like CO and NW.

Since SPG is a hotel program, it's where it shines; not a fair comparison. The proper comparison would be with Diners Club.