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-   -   COVID-19 related disputes (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-express-membership-rewards/2015988-covid-19-related-disputes.html)

angra Apr 17, 20 1:14 pm

COVID-19 related disputes
 
Are any of the users here involved in disputes/chargebacks regarding covid-19 related cancellations? Just wondering if others have had completed outcomes yet.

I filed two disputes on March 14 over carrier-initiated flight cancellations that refused to provide refunds. SQ and AM. The SQ investigation completed in my favor in 21 days (I think this means SQ just didn't respond) but the AM is still ticking along. I've seen language popping up on various Amex web pages that have led me to suspect Amex may be preparing to side with airlines broadly on disputes. So, I'm interested to share notes on how others' disputes have gone.

mia Apr 17, 20 1:44 pm


Originally Posted by angra (Post 32301910)
.... I've seen language popping up on various Amex web pages that have led me to suspect Amex may be preparing to side with airlines broadly on disputes. .

Links to examples would be very helpful.

angra Apr 17, 20 1:48 pm

I'll have to re-find them. I didn't come here to try to debate formally or anything just wondering if anyone has had a completed experience. Will re-locate some and post as I can....

https://www.americanexpress.com/en-u...tice/covid-19/

Please be aware that if you do go ahead with the dispute and the business has already refunded, or is offering to provide a credit for future use, we will rebill the charge to your account.
this is one example. Emphasis mine.

Brandinho1 Apr 17, 20 11:02 pm


Originally Posted by angra (Post 32302003)
I'll have to re-find them. I didn't come here to try to debate formally or anything just wondering if anyone has had a completed experience. Will re-locate some and post as I can....

https://www.americanexpress.com/en-u...tice/covid-19/


this is one example. Emphasis mine.

I disputed an Azul flight from March 14th. Azul has until June 9th to respond. I was refunded the amount after 21 days from the dispute opening.

GagaPilot Apr 18, 20 12:27 am

Not airline related, but it's COVID-19 related. Thankfully my airline purchases have been refunded properly.

I purchased event tickets through Ticket Master in Dec 2019 for an event scheduled on March 26, 2020. On March 15 I was notified by Ticket Master that the event was cancelled (not postponed) and I would automatically receive a full refund back to my Amex in 14-21 days. Around the two week mark I started attempting to contact Ticket Master. It took days of getting disconnected from their online chat, Twitter refused to answer messages, and their phone lines are disconnected. Towards the end of the second week I lucked out and was able to live chat with an agent. She said the refund would be within 30 days of cancellation (March 15). Well today is April 17 and no refund. I attempted to contact Ticket Master again and no luck.

So I opened a dispute on the Amex website. I answered the questions related to services not received. It specifically asked if I or the vendor cancelled. It also specifically asked had I allowed the quoted refund time to elapse. It also asked if it was COVID-19 related. I submitted the dispute for the tickets ($630.20) and uploaded two documents. The first was the original receipt showing purchase to my Amex. The second was the cancellation email quoting 7-21 days.

The Amex website said due to COVID-19 please allow 60 days for a response. After submitting the dispute it said to expect a decision by June 17. To my surprise I checked the disputes tab about 30 minutes later and the dispute is closed with the message "After completing our investigation, we have credited your account the disputed amount. This will display as an adjustment on an upcoming statement."

To me this is shockingly fast. It does not mention that it's a preliminary credit or anything like that. I'm guessing someone reviewed the documents and quickly sided with me? I can also imagine they have tons of other disputes related to TicketMaster so probably was an easy decision.

Best of luck in your disputes! Please let us know how they turn out.

CaptainMarcus Apr 18, 20 1:46 am

Dispute mediator?
 
Anyone heard of Elliot.org airline dispute mediator? Just wondering. I'm beginning my bank's disputes forms today. Expedia x2, Trip.com x1, and now Etihad who I thought would get me from BKK to JFK for $550, 24 hrs later they cancelled, no refund.

36902BRF Apr 18, 20 11:40 am

In late March I submitted several claims after proactively cancelling refundable TAP J class tickets. Opened a dispute via chat since I could not do via Amex website. I had cancelled the reservations a couple of weeks before on the day that TAP disabled the ability to request cash refunds online (I made it in under the wire). Normally I would have waited longer but TAP to date has refused to confirm the amount I should expect back, whether it will be back to my credit card or indeed when I can expect my refund. Thankfully since I was able to do everything online I took screenshots of EVERYTHING so my claim is quite well documented.

Edit: I should add that I have zero interest in future airline credits as I am sitting on a ton of miles at this point from all my flight cancellations. For the next year or two I will pretty much only book on points due to the flexibility they provide. I don't think Amex should force folks to take airline credits when cash is allowed due to either the law and/or the original terms of the ticket.

36902BRF Apr 18, 20 11:42 am


Originally Posted by GagaPilot (Post 32303271)

To me this is shockingly fast. It does not mention that it's a preliminary credit or anything like that. I'm guessing someone reviewed the documents and quickly sided with me? I can also imagine they have tons of other disputes related to TicketMaster so probably was an easy decision.

Often there is a threshold amount where either the CC issuer or the vendor just agree to refund because it is not worth the cost of a real investigation and just refund the money automatically.

notquiteaff Apr 18, 20 11:57 am


Originally Posted by 36902BRF (Post 32304281)
Often there is a threshold amount where either the CC issuer or the vendor just agree to refund because it is not worth the cost of a real investigation and just refund the money automatically.

Ageed, but I would expect that threshold to be below $630.20.

Often1 Apr 18, 20 12:02 pm

Amex tends to be really good about this. If you supply the key documents, they will typically apply at least a preliminary if not a permanent credit if you are a decent customer. They know where to find you if you have committed a fraud and that is extraordinarily unlikely.

angra Apr 18, 20 12:27 pm

Agreed, but the language that they have added (referenced in #3 ) worries me. We shall see. Wish we had more data points.

Duck1981 Apr 18, 20 12:47 pm

I have disputed two tickets booked at the same time on the same PNR (LHR to VIE after Austria closed the border for UK citizens); flights with Austrian. Austrian cancelled my flights and was able to press the 'refund' button on the LH web page but have never received anything (they were not able to calculate my refund + I have filed a claim via an Austrian Airlines online form 4 weeks ago but haven't heard anything so far).

Interestingly my ticket was refunded immediately, my wife's ticket is still under investigation (charge back claimed about 2 weeks ago). So got 50% of the original price back and waiting for the rest.

Often1 Apr 18, 20 3:28 pm


Originally Posted by angra (Post 32304397)
Agreed, but the language that they have added (referenced in #3 ) worries me. We shall see. Wish we had more data points.

Nothing on the Amex website worries me remotely. Clearly there are situations where the contract does not require a refund, but under a Covid-19 waiver a credit is offered.

If one is due a refund under the contract or the law requires it, nothing in the language changes Amex's obligation or practice.

cfabar1 Apr 18, 20 4:09 pm

I think it is a situation where there would be some give and take about what a credit could mean, and whether any business can offer a credit instead of a refunds. What are their refund policies, etc.

GagaPilot Apr 19, 20 7:43 pm

Posting an update to my post a few days ago about a COVID-19 related dispute involving TicketMaster and disputing the charge with Amex:

This morning the credit/adjustment appeared on my Amex account mobile app for the full amount of the tickets, $630.20, as well as a small amount of interest charges returned.

Tonight I checked the full website and there was a note on the home screen that my account had been credited per the dispute. When I reviewed the dispute, it was now showing open again (whereas the day I filed it displayed as "closed" minutes after I filed it). It said the investigation was underway and they would advise with updates.

So, it does appear that the $630.20 was indeed a provisional credit, however the initial communications failed to say so. I'm not concerned - based on the documentation I submitted there should be no question. It does give me the option to close the dispute, which will be helpful if TicketMaster does end up refunding at some point.


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