Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Credit, Debit and Prepaid Card Programs > American Express | Membership Rewards
Reload this Page >

How do Chase and Amex decide if you have the other Marriott card before?

How do Chase and Amex decide if you have the other Marriott card before?

Old Mar 14, 20, 11:01 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 49
How do Chase and Amex decide if you have the other Marriott card before?

How do chase and amex decide if you have the other marriott card before, in order to deny you a welcome bonus?

1, compare SSN you filled in the application. I don't think they are allowed to disclose this information to a third party.

2, through marriott number. But one can just not fill it in.

3, check credit report to find out what card you have. But the credit reports don't show full credit card number. Even the partial number is not the same with you true credit card number.

4, direct communication with each other "hey chase, this guy with name, birthday, and address just applied for a marriott card with us. please check if he got one from chase before." I dont' think this one is allowed as well.



It seems only 2 is doable, yet easy to get around with. But even so, since chase need to decide if one got marriott upgrade offer within 24 months. This seems to require information from amex. I find it hard to believe chase and amex are allowed to exchange that kind of information. The only possible way I can think of is to let marriott to decide. Since marriott have the inforamtion of when one received welcome or upgrade offer from both amex and chase, when the corresponding points post, they can decide if to issue welcome bonus or not. This seems to be the only possible scenario. Yet, will marriott be able to know if someone has Amex spg card within 30 days? If one close the card, will amex inform marriott within 30 days? Maybe.



But then, one can simply not fill in marriott account number at application. Chase will create a new one for you. I am not sure if Chase can release your birthday and address to marriott. Even then, you can change your address in the marriott account to a different one. I don't really think marriott will extensively check if someone has a account with them before, unless one require to combine accounts.

Any DPs and thoughts?
hermitw is offline  
Old Mar 15, 20, 9:34 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 667
It is my understanding that there isn't much difference in what a CC sees between a soft or hard credit pull. Yes, one requires your consent, while the other does not, but both give about same information.

When speaking to a Citibank rep about my account (asking for a sweet balance transfer offer to be extended), he asked if I had account numbers handy.. Didn't but he was able to "see" basically all my accounts from last time Citi did a soft pull for my account or something.

So yes, my guess is Amex and other banks/CC companies do have ways of knowing existing and previous CC accounts, well long as they appear on credit report.

Full account name likely isn't needed, there is enough information about issuing bank and so forth on a credit report.

Keep in mind if you have ever had any AMEX account that bank is like elephants; they don't forget a thing. People who have had accounts that were closed ten or twenty years ago make a new applications and are surprised when (if) account is approved the "Member Since" date reflects previous account.
BugsyPal is offline  
Old Mar 15, 20, 2:08 pm
  #3  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
It is my understanding that there isn't much difference in what a CC sees between a soft or hard credit pull. Yes, one requires your consent, while the other does not, but both give about same information.

When speaking to a Citibank rep about my account (asking for a sweet balance transfer offer to be extended), he asked if I had account numbers handy.. Didn't but he was able to "see" basically all my accounts from last time Citi did a soft pull for my account or something.

So yes, my guess is Amex and other banks/CC companies do have ways of knowing existing and previous CC accounts, well long as they appear on credit report.

Full account name likely isn't needed, there is enough information about issuing bank and so forth on a credit report.

Keep in mind if you have ever had any AMEX account that bank is like elephants; they don't forget a thing. People who have had accounts that were closed ten or twenty years ago make a new applications and are surprised when (if) account is approved the "Member Since" date reflects previous account.
Sorry I did not get your points. I was talking about marriott card specifically, as if you have marriott from amex, and apply for chase, you will be denied a welcome bonus. How does chase know you have marriott at amex?
hermitw is offline  
Old Mar 15, 20, 2:20 pm
  #4  
mia
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Moderator: American Express, Citi, Diners Club, Signatures
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; HH Gold
Posts: 39,987
Originally Posted by hermitw View Post
....The only possible way I can think of is to let marriott to decide. Since marriott have the information of when one received welcome or upgrade offer from both amex and chase, when the corresponding points post, they can decide if to issue welcome bonus or not. This seems to be the only possible scenario. Yet, will marriott be able to know if someone has Amex spg card within 30 days? If one close the card, will amex inform marriott within 30 days? Maybe.
I agree that Marriott knows which card each person holds (or held previously). I do not understand why you think it would take an issuer 30 days to notify Marriott of a change. I doubt that the membership number is the only way that Marriott can look for a database match.
mia is offline  
Old Mar 15, 20, 8:14 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by hermitw View Post
Sorry I did not get your points. I was talking about marriott card specifically, as if you have marriott from amex, and apply for chase, you will be denied a welcome bonus. How does chase know you have marriott at amex?
Marriott doesn't issue its own cards, AMEX and other CC companies do, and as such it surely information contained in ones' credit files. It doesn't take a rocket scientist looking at a CR to see someone has a Marriott branded card already issued by whatever bank/CC. More so if permission was granted to do a hard credit pull.

There are other ways for those who know what they are looking for to find information: https://smallbusiness.chron.com/iden...ber-61050.html
BugsyPal is offline  
Old Mar 15, 20, 8:54 pm
  #6  
mia
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Moderator: American Express, Citi, Diners Club, Signatures
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; HH Gold
Posts: 39,987
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
It doesn't take a rocket scientist looking at a CR to see someone has a Marriott branded card already issued by whatever bank/CC.
Card issuers share information about co-branded credit cards with the sponsor. I have never seen the name of a specific credit card shown on my credit report. I don't see how Chase would be able to distinguish an American Express Marriott card from a Hilton card from a Delta card from an Everyday or other credit card when looking at a credit report.
mia is offline  
Old Mar 15, 20, 11:59 pm
  #7  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by mia View Post
I agree that Marriott knows which card each person holds (or held previously). I do not understand why you think it would take an issuer 30 days to notify Marriott of a change. I doubt that the membership number is the only way that Marriott can look for a database match.

Chase will deny you welcome bonus if
  • (1)are a current cardmember, or were a previous cardmember within the last 30 days, of Marriott Bonvoy™ American Express® Card (also known as The Starwood Preferred Guest® Credit Card from American Express);
  • (2)are a current or previous cardmember of either Marriott Bonvoy Business™ American Express® Card (also known as The Starwood Preferred Guest® Business Credit Card from American Express) or Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card (also known as the Starwood Preferred Guest® American Express Luxury Card), and received a new cardmember bonus or upgrade bonus in the last 24 months; or
  • (3)applied and were approved for Marriott Bonvoy Business™ American Express® Card (also known as The Starwood Preferred Guest® Business Credit Card from American Express) or Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card (also known as the Starwood Preferred Guest® American Express Luxury Card) within the last 90 days.
This means chase need to know if you have spg card for the past 30 days. I am not sure if someone cancel the spg card, amex will immediately notify marriott. And if you are approved for marriott brilliant card a few minutes before, they need to know that in order to deny you a bonus. I am not sure if this really works. But if this is the case amex will need to notify marriott immediately for them to deny you the bonus.

I also suspect marriott can use other information to search if you have it before. Other players applied for the marriott card without filling in the account numer, asked chase for the number they created and tried to login. When try to combine accounts, they only use name and email address. And in the online banking it seems they don't really have one's DOB. I doubt chase and amex are allow to give one's DOB and address to marriott. If one change the address on the existing account to a foreign country and use a different email for application, I doubt marriott can really identify them with the old account just by name.
hermitw is offline  
Old Mar 16, 20, 12:04 am
  #8  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Marriott doesn't issue its own cards, AMEX and other CC companies do, and as such it surely information contained in ones' credit files. It doesn't take a rocket scientist looking at a CR to see someone has a Marriott branded card already issued by whatever bank/CC. More so if permission was granted to do a hard credit pull.

There are other ways for those who know what they are looking for to find information: https://smallbusiness.chron.com/iden...ber-61050.html
But it take Amex one to two month to report the new account to EX TU EQ. If you apply for chase and amex in the same date, they need to either direct communicate or through marriott to deny you the bonus.
hermitw is offline  
Old Mar 16, 20, 12:05 pm
  #9  
Hilton Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Hilton Diamond, Starriott Platinum, Hyatt FreeBottleofWaterist
Posts: 8,409
Originally Posted by hermitw View Post
4, direct communication with each other "hey chase, this guy with name, birthday, and address just applied for a marriott card with us. please check if he got one from chase before." I dont' think this one is allowed as well.
It definitely is. The bottom of the application page for the Chase Marriott Boundless card explicitly has these two bullet points:
  • I authorize Chase and the partner named in this offer to exchange information about me and my account(s).
  • I agree that when I apply for a Marriott Bonvoy™ credit card and for as long as I maintain an open account, my relationship with JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A. Member FDIC or other credit card issuers of Marriott International, Inc. may be disclosed to other Marriott®, Starwood® or Ritz-Carlton® credit card issuers.
You're of course welcome to test your theory, but Marriott went to great lengths to think up these cross-issuer rules, and I'd think that they'd have thought of the create a new account and have them merged trick. I'm not aware of any data points where somebody has successfully gotten around the Chase/Amex rules.
mia likes this.
krazykanuck is offline  
Old Mar 16, 20, 1:21 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 429
Originally Posted by hermitw View Post
How do chase and amex decide if you have the other marriott card before, in order to deny you a welcome bonus?

1, compare SSN you filled in the application. I don't think they are allowed to disclose this information to a third party.

2, through marriott number. But one can just not fill it in.

3, check credit report to find out what card you have. But the credit reports don't show full credit card number. Even the partial number is not the same with you true credit card number.

4, direct communication with each other "hey chase, this guy with name, birthday, and address just applied for a marriott card with us. please check if he got one from chase before." I dont' think this one is allowed as well.
I believe the answer is none of the above. It seems clear to me that Marriott is the one that decides whether you get the bonus or not. Marriott keeps the central database of points earned and who has gotten what bonus and what card each person holds or held in the past. Marriott learns this information when the card issuers (Chase or Amex) send them information about points that should be awarded. In the case of a bonus, neither Amex nor Chase check anything to initially deny but rather send information to Marriott that individual X should receive a certain bonus. Marriott then checks against its database and either accepts it or denies it. Once there's a bounce back or a NO code sent back from Marriott, the card issuer knows to deny the bonus. At that point, the onus is on the card applicant to prove that they deserve the bonus, which is where the fun begins for the applicant in terms of dealing with Marriott and the card issuer for weeks or months in order to show proof and then get the bonus.
halamadrid is offline  
Old Mar 31, 20, 9:53 am
  #11  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by halamadrid View Post
I believe the answer is none of the above. It seems clear to me that Marriott is the one that decides whether you get the bonus or not. Marriott keeps the central database of points earned and who has gotten what bonus and what card each person holds or held in the past. Marriott learns this information when the card issuers (Chase or Amex) send them information about points that should be awarded. In the case of a bonus, neither Amex nor Chase check anything to initially deny but rather send information to Marriott that individual X should receive a certain bonus. Marriott then checks against its database and either accepts it or denies it. Once there's a bounce back or a NO code sent back from Marriott, the card issuer knows to deny the bonus. At that point, the onus is on the card applicant to prove that they deserve the bonus, which is where the fun begins for the applicant in terms of dealing with Marriott and the card issuer for weeks or months in order to show proof and then get the bonus.
What you said makes sense. However, if one hold SPG card for the past 30 days, chase will deny the bonus. How would marriott know if one cancelled the card 30 days before application?
hermitw is offline  
Old Mar 31, 20, 11:12 am
  #12  
mia
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Moderator: American Express, Citi, Diners Club, Signatures
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; HH Gold
Posts: 39,987
Originally Posted by hermitw View Post
How would marriott know if one cancelled the card 30 days before application?
Each issuer would notify Marriott of each open/upgrade/downgrade/close event.
mia is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: