lax01

Nervous - only did one self-refer (and it wasn't against TOS at the time)....not cool - do you think you can you appeal? I can't believe they would just shut down your card and not notify you - that seems like terrible customer service and potentially open them up to law suits

Often1

Punishing?

CC issuers are for-profit businesses. If they are losing money on you, they are going to fire you. No need to look a lot further.

idkmybffjill

55K in self-referral points does not mean they are losing money on me.

I also bascially did....3 self referrals? I think. Hardly grounds for doing something insane like shutting down many annual fee saying accounts.

Yeah, I think most people found out when they logged into their account and saw the big red dot next to all their accounts lol. A few people had their card declined at a store, etc.

I was told there is some way to appeal, but I have no idea. I need to get the letter with the reason first.

Super Mario

Here come all of the people playing dumb at how this could happen

Diplomatico

Based upon reports so far, many of the shutdowns appear to have at least two elements in common: self-referral clawbacks and multiples of the same cards. Inconclusive, of course, and as many have mentioned these AMEX actions tend to occur in waves.

danielflyer

I was tempted to self-refer earlier this year because the system allowed but it quickly realized this was a bad move-- Amex doesn't think these things are funny. Why not just swap referrals with friends?

shipitkthx

He didn't say 10 of the same card, he said 10 cards.

Between my wife and I we have 15 AMEX cards. We don't "game" them, and your assertion that the number of cards you have with AMEX is grounds for a shutdown is simply wrong. If AMEX doesn't want us having so many cards, I presume they should stop targeting us to sign up for new ones.

FWIW I've said self-referring was stupid and would lead to this from the beginning, THAT is definitely "gaming" to them, simply having 10 cards is not.

sdsearch

The thing I noticed (earlier today) on the dedicated thread on Reddit about this, where someone asked half a dozen questions, is that everyone who answered the questions by that time and had gotten shut down not only had done self-referrals but also had multiples of at least one non-Hilton card. (I say "non-Hilton" because it was easy for people to have multiple Hilton cards solely due to Amex buying Citi's Hilton card accounts a bit under two years ago.)

So did you have multiples of any cards (especially MR cards like Gold, Plat or biz of same) among those 10+. or no multiples of any card? Given Amex's "4 or 5" credit card limit, and Amex's limited number of different charge cards, it seems to me it might not be so easy to get to 10+ Amex cards without any multiples.

idkmybffjill

Yeah, technically I got 18 emails about the shutdown, so one for each card. 3 Platinums, 2 Golds, 2 Biz Plats, etc. Once again, I'm not sure why this should be a problem.

Gig103

What sort of account age were on those? Did you actually use enough of the perks to keep all those active? Amex is so aggressive about cardholders closing accounts in under a year and while I get that yours are all currently active, maybe the writing was on the wall to them that you weren't planning to keep and use all those cards.

Why it should be a problem is maybe because each one is a liability to Amex since each has their own independent spending power. Or maybe it's just simply b/c it's in the T&C (I never looked for anything to that effect; $550/yr is plenty for me).
Edit: To clarify these are conjectures. I don't even know if it's in the T&C to only have one per person.

MT_Switch

Well there is no local, state, federal, sovereign, maritime, or international law that explicitly disallows you to piss/urinate on a random strangers head whenever you please, but there is a general global unspoken consensus that you shouldn't do so and that generally speaking there will be negative consequences for doing so.

This reminds me of the discontinuation of the priority pass restaurant benefit, because some people decided to take advantage of the "loop hole" that wasn't explicitly controlled in the t&c and therefore by definition was not "gaming the system".

sdsearch

I presume it's because Amex considers both self-referrals and multiples of the so many cards as "abuse, misuse, or gaming" their system, and it said publicly over 2 years ago that their evaluation that you're "abusing, misusing, or gaming" could result in shutdowns:

Amex USA terms now penalize:abuse,misuse,gaming;1st yr downgrade/close;leaked offers.

"If we in our sole discretion determine that you have engaged in abuse, misuse, or gaming in connection with the welcome bonus offer in any way or that you intend to do so (for example, if you applied for one or more cards to obtain a welcome bonus offer (s) that we did not intend for you; if you cancel or downgrade your account within 12 months after acquiring it; or if you cancel or return purchases you made to meet the Threshold Amount), we may not credit Membership Rewards to, we may freeze Membership Rewards credited to, or we may take away Membership Rewards from your account. We may also cancel this Card account and other Card accounts you may have with us."

CodeAdam10

So what happens to one’s Amex points with a shut down?

Diplomatico

The text you quoted talks about abuse, misuse, or gaming in connection with the welcome bonus offer or closing cards in under a year.

It says nothing about other actions resulting in shutdowns so I disagree with your contention that AMEX stated all of this publicly two years ago - though it's become obvious that self-referrals and obtaining multiples of the same cards are actions that AMEX implicitly considers gaming the system (not surprising.)

I do agree, however, that AMEX may refuse to do business with anyone at any time. That's pretty clearly understood, as well as the fact that AMEX owns the MR points in your account until and unless you cash them out.

They vanish, according to those who have reported on reddit. Some people claim to have lost the equivalent of many thousands of dollars' worth of MR points.

AMEX has claimed for some time now that they own the points in your account until you use them - which is why a lot of folks were upset when AMEX sent out IRS form 1099 for referral points earned last year to many cardholders.

GUWonder

The argument by analogy is generally a logical flop; and in the case of the above analogy, the premise that there is no law that explicitly disallows urinating on random strangers is one that falls flat on its face. Even spitting on random strangers can invite assault charges.

There obviously was not — until more recently — a consensus that self-referring Amex card accounts was a fast track to be fired by Amex. But given Amex’s financial situation at this time, can’t say I’m surprised they are hiking fees, shutting down customers with multiples of the same card type and so on.

How many billions of Amex points does Amex need to render void for customer use — via customer account shutdowns — before Amex sees its quarterly EPS increased by 1 cent?