Jan 11, 2020, 10:02 am
Last edit by: mia
American Express (USA)Trip Cancellation or Interruption terms:
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/c...ion-terms.html
American Express (USA) Trip Delay terms:
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/c...rip-delay.html
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/c...ion-terms.html
American Express (USA) Trip Delay terms:
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/c...rip-delay.html
Amex (USA) adding trip delay and cancellation coverage to select cards
Sep 29, 2019, 3:02 pm
#46
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Does anyone know how these benefit changes would apply to trips already booked but not taken yet? Is there a standard way Amex typically handles these sorts of things?
e.g. My parents booked a trip for May using Amex IAP on a Platinum card. They are phasing out Travel Accident Insurance but phasing in Trip Delay and Trip Cancellation and Interruption benefits. Which ones would apply? The ones that were in force when they bought the ticket? Or the ones in force when they traveled? Something else?
e.g. My parents booked a trip for May using Amex IAP on a Platinum card. They are phasing out Travel Accident Insurance but phasing in Trip Delay and Trip Cancellation and Interruption benefits. Which ones would apply? The ones that were in force when they bought the ticket? Or the ones in force when they traveled? Something else?
As for the features that are going away, I assume "in force when they bought the ticket" would generally be true.
It also says "Amex will begin notifying customers on October 1" so we'll know more for sure then.
Sep 29, 2019, 8:22 pm
#47
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As I phrased it over on TPG:
(1) I generally end up booking two one-way legs both because there's often no cost advantage to booking a round-trip and because I'd often get stuck doing an open jaw/multi-city ticket anyway. In some cases I find it a lot easier to nail down a "tricky" leg (for example, where I might have a specific time of day I need to travel or travel near a peak time) and then deal with the loose end (where I have more flexibility) later. It doesn't hurt that for my local area, there are often insane variations between the airports as to which is cheaper for a given leg of a trip (it can be, for example, cheaper/more advantageous to originate out of PHF and return into ORF or vice-versa, and sometimes PHF is the cheapest of the three while sometimes ORF or RIC is). This leads to...
(2) The question about what counts as working for the "closed loop" for the airports is a troublesome one. Let's start with an easy case: DCA/DCA would obviously count. What about DCA/IAD? DCA/BWI? IAD/BWI? Similar questions abound for New York, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, and the Bay Area (most obviously) though you can probably add Seattle, Los Angeles, and maybe a few others (South Florida comes to mind).
To offer several (real) trip examples from me over the last few years:
-I flew RIC-BOS on DL (paid), BOS-LHR on VS (award). I spent the next few weeks in Europe, ultimately winding up in Helsinki. No planes in the interim. Flew back HEL-LHR-IAD, then caught the train from Washington back to Richmond.
-I flew PHF-IAH on DL, IAH-MAN on SQ, trains in the UK, and then flew BRU-LHR-IAD on BA and got a pickup from IAD.
-I took the train to New York, flew JFK-FRA on SQ, took trains/ferries to Dublin, and then flew back DUB-LHR-JFK before taking the train home. Would I have been screwed if I had a tagged-on flight back to ORF or RIC?
-I took the train up to DC, flew DCA-LAX, spent a week and a half in CA, and then flew back SFO-ORF (it was originally PHF, but IRROPS came into play). All on DL.
-And then there's my around-the-world trip from three years ago (DCA-SEA-LAX-BNE-SIN-HKG-LHR-IAD). Different carriers (VX, VA, SQ, VS) but it gets me back to the same city. Would that have been covered?
In all of these cases (all of which come from the last three years), a close reading of the policy suggests that they would not have been covered.
I will be frank: If their coverage is going to be airlines-only, round-trip-tickets-only (with a provision for open jaws), and require the same airport at both ends of the trip I would rather that they just not bother with the pretense of coverage and cut their card fees since in that event not only is the coverage totally useless to me, it is worse than having no coverage since it acts as a "decoy". So unless there's a more generous read, Amex really needs to go back and try again.
Practical question: Does it still count as a "round trip" if I book two one-way tickets (still originating/terminating in the same place) versus a single round-trip reservation? I'm actually trying to think of the last time I actually booked a full "round trip" flight with...well, anyone (especially since some carriers have different service patterns). Hell, I generally don't even do it on Amtrak as an exercise in "damage control" if one leg has issues arise.
Also worth noting is that Chase (1) doesn't require a round-trip and (2) covers all "common carriers" (whereas per the phrasing above, Amex only covers you if you're flying both ways). So I would contend that the Chase coverage is *definitely* better (even if the Amex coverage could conceivably be achieved through some absurd exercises such as booking a very notional "return leg"...for example, flying JFK-LAX and then flying DCA-JFK).
Added for here:Also worth noting is that Chase (1) doesn't require a round-trip and (2) covers all "common carriers" (whereas per the phrasing above, Amex only covers you if you're flying both ways). So I would contend that the Chase coverage is *definitely* better (even if the Amex coverage could conceivably be achieved through some absurd exercises such as booking a very notional "return leg"...for example, flying JFK-LAX and then flying DCA-JFK).
(1) I generally end up booking two one-way legs both because there's often no cost advantage to booking a round-trip and because I'd often get stuck doing an open jaw/multi-city ticket anyway. In some cases I find it a lot easier to nail down a "tricky" leg (for example, where I might have a specific time of day I need to travel or travel near a peak time) and then deal with the loose end (where I have more flexibility) later. It doesn't hurt that for my local area, there are often insane variations between the airports as to which is cheaper for a given leg of a trip (it can be, for example, cheaper/more advantageous to originate out of PHF and return into ORF or vice-versa, and sometimes PHF is the cheapest of the three while sometimes ORF or RIC is). This leads to...
(2) The question about what counts as working for the "closed loop" for the airports is a troublesome one. Let's start with an easy case: DCA/DCA would obviously count. What about DCA/IAD? DCA/BWI? IAD/BWI? Similar questions abound for New York, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, and the Bay Area (most obviously) though you can probably add Seattle, Los Angeles, and maybe a few others (South Florida comes to mind).
To offer several (real) trip examples from me over the last few years:
-I flew RIC-BOS on DL (paid), BOS-LHR on VS (award). I spent the next few weeks in Europe, ultimately winding up in Helsinki. No planes in the interim. Flew back HEL-LHR-IAD, then caught the train from Washington back to Richmond.
-I flew PHF-IAH on DL, IAH-MAN on SQ, trains in the UK, and then flew BRU-LHR-IAD on BA and got a pickup from IAD.
-I took the train to New York, flew JFK-FRA on SQ, took trains/ferries to Dublin, and then flew back DUB-LHR-JFK before taking the train home. Would I have been screwed if I had a tagged-on flight back to ORF or RIC?
-I took the train up to DC, flew DCA-LAX, spent a week and a half in CA, and then flew back SFO-ORF (it was originally PHF, but IRROPS came into play). All on DL.
-And then there's my around-the-world trip from three years ago (DCA-SEA-LAX-BNE-SIN-HKG-LHR-IAD). Different carriers (VX, VA, SQ, VS) but it gets me back to the same city. Would that have been covered?
In all of these cases (all of which come from the last three years), a close reading of the policy suggests that they would not have been covered.
I will be frank: If their coverage is going to be airlines-only, round-trip-tickets-only (with a provision for open jaws), and require the same airport at both ends of the trip I would rather that they just not bother with the pretense of coverage and cut their card fees since in that event not only is the coverage totally useless to me, it is worse than having no coverage since it acts as a "decoy". So unless there's a more generous read, Amex really needs to go back and try again.
Sep 30, 2019, 7:24 am
#48
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Sep 30, 2019, 9:07 am
#49
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Most people holding these cards create bookings like this:
1. "Oh, I need to go to Omaha next week."
2. Opens browser, goes to Kayak/Google Flights/airline website/company travel portal.
3. Searches for XYZ<>OMA round trip on X dates.
4. Picks flights and finishes booking.
5. Maybe books a hotel and/or car.
6. Goes back to doing something completely unrelated to travel.
Sep 30, 2019, 9:17 am
#50
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The thing that confuses me about the one-ways is that award tickets (which at least one blog said were covered if taxes/fees were paid on the card) are almost always one-way, so how are they covered?
That's a good question but until the description of coverage is released, it hasn't been said. Amex might not have hammered out the details yet, since the coverage doesn't begin until tickets purchased as of January 1, 2020.
I would hope not or go so far as to say probably not 'one transaction'. Trips can include hotels and flights and rental cars, and even if you bundle with a travel agency, many allow for deposit + final payment arrangements.
That's a good question but until the description of coverage is released, it hasn't been said. Amex might not have hammered out the details yet, since the coverage doesn't begin until tickets purchased as of January 1, 2020.
I would hope not or go so far as to say probably not 'one transaction'. Trips can include hotels and flights and rental cars, and even if you bundle with a travel agency, many allow for deposit + final payment arrangements.
Sep 30, 2019, 9:47 am
#51
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Even if the award tickets are composed of two one way award tickets (one way fares), if they're purchased at the same time, they're presumably put together on the same itinerary/PNR and one would typically get a single receipt with a single ticket number. It's no different than the way many/most USA domestic routes now use one way fares but they can be put together on the same ticket/PNR to form a RT (and in that case, if you cancel, only one change/cancellation fee would be paid in most instances).
Sep 30, 2019, 11:05 am
#52
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I don't doubt this is true for you and many others posting here on FT, but again, I think it's important to remember that Chase/Amex are looking at their entire slate of consumers, of which we are a very small blob of outliers.
Most people holding these cards create bookings like this:
1. "Oh, I need to go to Omaha next week."
2. Opens browser, goes to Kayak/Google Flights/airline website/company travel portal.
3. Searches for XYZ<>OMA round trip on X dates.
4. Picks flights and finishes booking.
5. Maybe books a hotel and/or car.
6. Goes back to doing something completely unrelated to travel.
Most people holding these cards create bookings like this:
1. "Oh, I need to go to Omaha next week."
2. Opens browser, goes to Kayak/Google Flights/airline website/company travel portal.
3. Searches for XYZ<>OMA round trip on X dates.
4. Picks flights and finishes booking.
5. Maybe books a hotel and/or car.
6. Goes back to doing something completely unrelated to travel.
Sep 30, 2019, 11:35 am
#53
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I do agree that most DL Reserve cardholders are DL loyalists (not necessarily elites, just loyalists). They are sucked in to the marketing and think the card is a good value to them. But really the only difference here is that step 2 is reduced to just DL.com and not any of the other comparison sites. I believe steps 3-6 remain as-is.
Sep 30, 2019, 2:41 pm
#54
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To be fair, I basically threw those sites out the window after Basic Economy FUBARed price-checking and never looked back (ITA Matrix has generally allowed at least some filtering, and it allows more robust routing controls as well). There were too many issues with non-comparable fares showing up and having to sort through them. That also got me to be a lot less incline to even compare notes on coach/main cabin fares (since again, I just got sick of playing those games, and I was attuned to the price point for paid-up-front VX First).
Sep 30, 2019, 3:57 pm
#55
Join Date: May 2009
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Amex DL Platinum vs CSR.
DH has Amex DL Plat. We were planning on going to either Galapagos or Antarctica. Insurance was between 400$-1200$. For big trips I always purchase trip insurance. I decided to get the CSR because of the trip insurance. It covers "the trip", with any portion of "the trip" charged on the CSR card. Air, hotel, cruise.
As I understand the new trip insurance on Amex doesn't sound like its "the trip". Sounds like its just air????
I would keep the DL Amex if it were just like the CSR, I guess I'll have to wait and see the T's & C's. Doesn't sound like it though.
Looks like it is just flights. Guess we'll keep the CSR.
DH has Amex DL Plat. We were planning on going to either Galapagos or Antarctica. Insurance was between 400$-1200$. For big trips I always purchase trip insurance. I decided to get the CSR because of the trip insurance. It covers "the trip", with any portion of "the trip" charged on the CSR card. Air, hotel, cruise.
As I understand the new trip insurance on Amex doesn't sound like its "the trip". Sounds like its just air????
I would keep the DL Amex if it were just like the CSR, I guess I'll have to wait and see the T's & C's. Doesn't sound like it though.
Looks like it is just flights. Guess we'll keep the CSR.
Last edited by stan1162; Sep 30, 2019 at 6:25 pm
Oct 1, 2019, 12:02 pm
#56
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Any official announcement from Amex on this, which was supposed to be released today, October 1? Particularly for answering the question about how Amex is defining R/T.
Oct 1, 2019, 12:13 pm
#57
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Eh, I think many on FT way overestimate how much the general public thinks about either travel or maximizing every last drop of benefit from a CC. It's simply not something most people do or would ever want to do. Booking the ticket is a means to an end, so the easiest, most straightforward way to do it is how it gets done.
I do agree that most DL Reserve cardholders are DL loyalists (not necessarily elites, just loyalists). They are sucked in to the marketing and think the card is a good value to them. But really the only difference here is that step 2 is reduced to just DL.com and not any of the other comparison sites. I believe steps 3-6 remain as-is.
I do agree that most DL Reserve cardholders are DL loyalists (not necessarily elites, just loyalists). They are sucked in to the marketing and think the card is a good value to them. But really the only difference here is that step 2 is reduced to just DL.com and not any of the other comparison sites. I believe steps 3-6 remain as-is.
Oct 1, 2019, 2:19 pm
#58
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Also hub captives who believe they are loyalists by choice but are actually loyalists only because they are hub captives.
But basically people who automatically think of DL as their default airline for whatever reason.
My point is, there are a spectacular number of people who hold the DL Reserve or (especially) DL Platinum cards but never even sniff at FO. These people by and large a) book simple, point A/point B, round-trip tickets for all of their travel and b) are the ones producing the biggest profit margin for Amex (high AFs, maybe some interest, low use of benefits). These people are also the ones that Amex/DL are targeting with these changes - not us FTers. If anything, Amex/DL would like the FT crowd to stop using their products as we're the ones most likely to consume card benefits in a way that costs more than we actually produce in AFs, transaction fees, etc.
Oct 1, 2019, 4:54 pm
#59
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DL Plat: https://www.americanexpress.com/us/c...0/#offer-terms
Reserve: https://www.americanexpress.com/us/c...0/#offer-terms
EDIT: sorry, I got this thread confused with the other thread (in the DL forum) about "enhancements" to the DL co-brand portfolio
Last edited by Zorak; Oct 1, 2019 at 5:55 pm