Forced to purchase return ticket, want to file dispute
#31
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,334
Have you heard of Buyer Protection before? You should read up on it. Also did you know AMEX fully refunds you if you bought something and someone stole it? Or if a store tries to say "No refunds", AMEX will still be willing to refund you. Ah yes.. I'd say OP should be able to dispute anything that he did not receive. Think about why Merchants hate accepting AMEX, because they always favor the buyer.
#32
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 5
"Non refundable" or not. AMEX doesn't care about gimmicks. They don't care if what you bought has a "No Refund" policy. Or a "Restocking fee". The fact is, if you're not completely satisfied with whatever is charged on your card, they encourage you to open a dispute so they can take matters into their own hands and fully credit you the charge. You should learn more about the perks of being an AMEX cardholder.
#33
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
Have you heard of Buyer Protection before? You should read up on it. Also did you know AMEX fully refunds you if you bought something and someone stole it? Or if a store tries to say "No refunds", AMEX will still be willing to refund you. Ah yes.. I'd say OP should be able to dispute anything that he did not receive. Think about why Merchants hate accepting AMEX, because they always favor the buyer.
#34
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
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I have, and I have.
Reading up on it, there are these terms (among others):
So, the OP's situation is excluded from Return Protection on at least two counts. It should be obvious without even having to look it up that non-refundable airline tickets are not covered by Amex Return Protection - otherwise, we'd be hearing all about it around here.
Nope. He received exactly what he purchased - a non-refundable airline ticket. The fact that he ended up not needing or using it isn't relevant. Nor is the fact that he knew this at the time of purchase.
Neither Purchase Protection or Return Protection result in chargebacks to the merchant. You seem to imply that Return Protection would force the merchant to refund the purchase even when they otherwise wouldn't, just because an Amex card was used to make the purchase. That's not how it works. Those protections are insurance products that are funded by premiums paid by Amex that come out of the revenue you generate for them - the merchant pays for neither the claims nor the premiums. It sounds like you have some kind of issue with Amex that is bleeding over into this thread, even though it's probably not related.
There are several problems with this. For one, if the passenger doesn't have the means to buy such a ticket, the inbound transporting carrier must transport them back at their own expense and is unlikely to be able to collect the cost after the fact. Second, if a passenger is denied entry for a documentation issue that they should have caught before boarding the passenger on the inbound flight, they are subject to a fine by the country denying entry. And, even if they don't get fined on each instance, having "too many" such situations creates problems. Third, for the passenger, having a denied entry to a particular country on their record may cause problems for future entries, even if they meet the requirements those times. For example, for people visiting the US on the Visa Waiver Program, if they ever get denied entry, that results in a lifetime ban of using that program, and forever thereafter they must apply for a visa to visit the US even though their nationality ordinarily doesn't have to.
So in cases such as this, carriers act the way they do because a) they're required by law to do so, and b) it's in their best interest to do so. It's also in the passenger's best interest, even if they don't realize it, although it's doubtful that this is why the carriers enforce the rules.
Items not eligible for a refund are: ... tickets of any kind (including, but not limited to, transportation passes or tickets and event tickets) ;
...
Purchases must be made in the 50 United States of America ...
...
Purchases must be made in the 50 United States of America ...
Since when is it not possible to book a flight if such situation like [being denied entry to a country because of not meeting entry requirements, such as having an onward/return flight] that happens? If I was denied entry, held in custody, don't you think you're allowed to book the next flight out
So in cases such as this, carriers act the way they do because a) they're required by law to do so, and b) it's in their best interest to do so. It's also in the passenger's best interest, even if they don't realize it, although it's doubtful that this is why the carriers enforce the rules.
#35
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,127
It sounds like there a bunch of experienced travelers on this thread, so I will pose a related question:
Say a traveler has a one-way ticket on Airline 1 to Country A. When checking in for this flight, the agent asks for proof of onward travel. The passenger presents a printout showing either an airline ticket on Airline 2 departing Country A , or a cruise departing from Country A.
Does anyone believe there is concern with this scenario?
Say a traveler has a one-way ticket on Airline 1 to Country A. When checking in for this flight, the agent asks for proof of onward travel. The passenger presents a printout showing either an airline ticket on Airline 2 departing Country A , or a cruise departing from Country A.
Does anyone believe there is concern with this scenario?
#36
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To satisfy immigration requirement, usually airlines will require passengers with one-way tickets to show some means leaving the country or proof of legal residence. For example, in the case of entering the U.S. for Canada, a foreigner can use Canadian Passport, Maple Leaf Card, a Canadian TRV with proper permit, or even a one-way ticket leaving from Canada, in addition to proper documentation for the U.S., to show that the passenger is meant to leave the U.S.
In your case, even you leave Thailand by land, you still have to show how you can legally stay in the nearby countries or leave from there. I am not saying that you have none. But to the GA, you have nothing to show.
This is why you are forced to buy a return ticket.
The reason why you will fail is not because your nonrefundable ticket has residual values.
It sounds like there a bunch of experienced travelers on this thread, so I will pose a related question:
Say a traveler has a one-way ticket on Airline 1 to Country A. When checking in for this flight, the agent asks for proof of onward travel. The passenger presents a printout showing either an airline ticket on Airline 2 departing Country A , or a cruise departing from Country A.
Does anyone believe there is concern with this scenario?
Say a traveler has a one-way ticket on Airline 1 to Country A. When checking in for this flight, the agent asks for proof of onward travel. The passenger presents a printout showing either an airline ticket on Airline 2 departing Country A , or a cruise departing from Country A.
Does anyone believe there is concern with this scenario?
#37
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
It sounds like there a bunch of experienced travelers on this thread, so I will pose a related question:
Say a traveler has a one-way ticket on Airline 1 to Country A. When checking in for this flight, the agent asks for proof of onward travel. The passenger presents a printout showing either an airline ticket on Airline 2 departing Country A , or a cruise departing from Country A.
Does anyone believe there is concern with this scenario?
Say a traveler has a one-way ticket on Airline 1 to Country A. When checking in for this flight, the agent asks for proof of onward travel. The passenger presents a printout showing either an airline ticket on Airline 2 departing Country A , or a cruise departing from Country A.
Does anyone believe there is concern with this scenario?
#38
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 5
That's like if I said. Buy my ticket for $50. No refunds. But if you pay me $100. Then you can get a refund after you pay me a fee of $50.... in the end you're still paying $50 anyways. So whats the point of buying a refundable ticket if you are still paying the same (or more) than the lowest price?
Last edited by acenase; Apr 17, 2019 at 12:16 am
#39
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: New York, NY, USA
Posts: 12,474
That defeats the purpose of having a refundable ticket if you have to pay $100 out of your pocket. Look at the total cost of the ticket from VTE-BKK, the cheapest one is $67. That goes up to $200. So why should someone pay $200 for a refundable ticket only to pay $100 and be refunded less than what they would pay for just a non-refundable $67 ticket and be out of pocket $67 instead of $100 refund fee?
#40
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
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An airline ticket from another carrier should be no problem. I've done this before. It's doubtful they'll even check to see if your confirmation is real. In years past, they'd want to see the actual paper ticket and not just an itinerary, but in today's world of electronic tickets, it's too much work to verify each one each time. The some holds true for the immigration authorities upon arrival. However, if the immigration authorities decided to verify your return flight and you got caught presenting a fake document, that would probably be Very Bad.
#41
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 5
An airline ticket from another carrier should be no problem. I've done this before. It's doubtful they'll even check to see if your confirmation is real. In years past, they'd want to see the actual paper ticket and not just an itinerary, but in today's world of electronic tickets, it's too much work to verify each one each time. The some holds true for the immigration authorities upon arrival. However, if the immigration authorities decided to verify your return flight and you got caught presenting a fake document, that would probably be Very Bad.
#42
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,127
That was the answer I expected. Thanks.
I assumed this. Thanks.
Thank you for the confirmation.
It needs to be on the same carrier you fly into the country on because of the fact that they can confirm it is real. If you book a one way flight.... they need to see a return flight IN THEIR SYSTEM or else they won't let you board the flight. So you can not have a flight out of the country on Airline 2 because its not confirmed. Airline 1 still can deny your boarding if they only have a 1 way ticket in their system even tho you show a flight out on Airline 2
I hope you are wrong on this. In the past few years, I've flown into DXB, VCE, NRT on one-way flight itineraries and departed these cities on one-way cruises. None of the airlines or immigration authorities seemed to care. Hoping that this is the case when I fly into SIN next year, transiting briefly in BKK on a set of TG flights from NRT.
I assumed this. Thanks.
An airline ticket from another carrier should be no problem. I've done this before. It's doubtful they'll even check to see if your confirmation is real. In years past, they'd want to see the actual paper ticket and not just an itinerary, but in today's world of electronic tickets, it's too much work to verify each one each time. The some holds true for the immigration authorities upon arrival. However, if the immigration authorities decided to verify your return flight and you got caught presenting a fake document, that would probably be Very Bad.
It needs to be on the same carrier you fly into the country on because of the fact that they can confirm it is real. If you book a one way flight.... they need to see a return flight IN THEIR SYSTEM or else they won't let you board the flight. So you can not have a flight out of the country on Airline 2 because its not confirmed. Airline 1 still can deny your boarding if they only have a 1 way ticket in their system even tho you show a flight out on Airline 2
#43
Join Date: May 2006
Location: KSNA/KLAX
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Posts: 645
I travel within that region extensively and can tell you that the agents basically selectively enforce the onward/return ticket rule. There definitely are customs/immigration regulation for many countries that have these dumb rules but check in and customs agents basically use selective profiling to see if they want to enforce it or not. Even if you had proof of a onward bus or train ticket sometimes they won't let you board. Best word of advice is to use a refundable ticket to cancel later, or if you are brave, print out a fake itinerary. As far as the charge back goes.. Sure.. Try it.. But keep in mind you might make it onto the airlines back list.
The airlines are mainly worried to make sure they don't get fined if a passenger on the flight gets denied entry. The customs and immigration agents just need to make sure you don't become an illegal immigrant. Enforcement is very selective.
The airlines are mainly worried to make sure they don't get fined if a passenger on the flight gets denied entry. The customs and immigration agents just need to make sure you don't become an illegal immigrant. Enforcement is very selective.
#44
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: London UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 201
As a data point, we knew on our cycling trip that we would be leaving Thailand via a road border into Laos. So just bought the cheapest ticket possible using a LCC ( I think it was Air Asia) leaving within 30 days of arrival to anywhere- I think cost in the region of Ł24. Totally accepted by airline (JAL). Job done.
#45
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Last edited by mia; Apr 17, 2019 at 7:05 am