AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant "forfeited" points!?
Apr 17, 2019, 5:55 am
#31
Join Date: Oct 2014
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Threads like this one are what make Flyertalk great. I've always turned my nose up at autopay for credit cards (I do it for my fixed-amount bills, though) since the amount varies. I don't know what rock I was living under, but I legitimately had no idea the payment doesn't happen if you've already made a payment on your own, and the autopay T&C for my cards generally say exactly that (although one of my card issuers had T&C was silent on it). I only wish this had come about two months ago, because I was just recently in OP's boat. I forfeited some Hilton points, but not enough to make the reinstatement fee worth it, but it could've easily been avoided without any catch that I can see. Thanks everyone.
Apr 17, 2019, 7:07 am
#32
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Apr 17, 2019, 12:07 pm
#33
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Programs: UA 1K, AA Lifetime Platinum, DL Platinum, Honors Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz Platinum
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It generates bad press but until they change it we have to follow it.
On the bright side, bonvoys have devalued a lot so it could have been worse had it been starpoints that were taken away =P
Apr 17, 2019, 12:42 pm
#34
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I paid my bill the first few days of the month in full. This charge posted in the middle of the month, that billing cycle closed around 17th of the month. I paid my bill again in full in beginning of the next month, less than 1mo after the charge posted AND paid the late fee they hit me with. Does it not seem objectively stupid that I have 1. paid all the $ owed on my bill, 2. paid the late fee and still they want to charge me ANOTHER fee for points I already "earned" with the spend? If I had a bill that was outstanding for months or something i'd understand, but this is just dumb and you'd think any customer service agent would be like "OK, we'll waive the fee this time but please make sure to pay on time!" Like I said, if AMEX wants to ruin a 15+ year relationship over $35 they're welcome to. I've shifted most of my spend to Chase, I'm happy to bring the rest over. Shouldn't the "penalty" for late payment be the late fee? Not late fee + another BS fee?
I always pay my bill in full too after reviewing the charges... but if you don’t schedule auto pay for at least the minimum payment, it’s 100% on you when you get busy and forget to do this on time.
It’s not a particularly friendly fee, but if a $35 fee is going to make you break up a decades-long business relationship when you’re in the wrong anyway, that’s up to you. Sounds like that relationship was fragile enough that it was inevitably going to break at some point anyway.
Apr 17, 2019, 11:53 pm
#36
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Is this the rule for all AMEX points accruing cards, or just the Bonvoy card?
Seems a bit harsh, glad I've never bumped into this rule. Amex has waived a late fee for me though. I think it helps to be apologetic, not combative.
Seems a bit harsh, glad I've never bumped into this rule. Amex has waived a late fee for me though. I think it helps to be apologetic, not combative.
Apr 18, 2019, 8:03 am
#37
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 779
The same for the Hilton cards. Amex waived the late fee for me but the points were forfeited.
Apr 18, 2019, 11:34 am
#38
Join Date: Nov 2013
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No, these are separate. One is an automatic penalty if you fail to pay as required. $35 is optional reinstatement fee. It's all here:
https://www.americanexpress.com/cont...03-28-2019.pdf
If the Minimum Payment Due is not paid by the
Closing Date of the billing period in which it is due,
you will forfeit the Points you received for eligible
purchases during that billing period. For example,
if your billing period closes January 15 and the
minimum payment for that billing period is due on
February 10, and you do not make that minimum
payment due by the close of your next billing period
on February 15, then you will not earn Points for
spend in the billing period ending February 15.
You may reinstate those Points within the next 12
billing periods if your Card Account is not past due
and you pay a $35 fee.
Closing Date of the billing period in which it is due,
you will forfeit the Points you received for eligible
purchases during that billing period. For example,
if your billing period closes January 15 and the
minimum payment for that billing period is due on
February 10, and you do not make that minimum
payment due by the close of your next billing period
on February 15, then you will not earn Points for
spend in the billing period ending February 15.
You may reinstate those Points within the next 12
billing periods if your Card Account is not past due
and you pay a $35 fee.
Apr 18, 2019, 1:08 pm
#39
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: ATL
Programs: MR/SPG Plat, HH Gold, DL PM
Posts: 413
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Apr 18, 2019, 3:33 pm
#40
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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Again, I think that ALL lenders will take your points away if you close your card(s) or let your account go into significant default. That seems reasonable to me.
Amex and Barclay are the only major lenders that I know of that will revoke your points over a single forgotten or missed payment.
There is a big difference here, because a single payment that's a few days late is something that happens often when people are busy. Someone who does not pay anything (even the minimum) for 60 days past the due date ignoring multiple demands for payment.
Apr 18, 2019, 11:18 pm
#41
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 152
Why not? A good thing to do, even if you don't plan to use it, is to enable autopay for at least the minimum payment. Only if you make no payment yourself will the autopay do anything, but in that case, it will save you from the late payment fee, losing your points, and potentially getting kicked up to the penalty APR. I can see why some people don't feel comfortable with autopay for the entire balance, as they may be carrying a balance on an ongoing basis, or occasionally don't have the full amount that is due. But I can't think of a good reason to not have a minimum-payment autopay enabled, even if you don't plan to use it (unless your finances are such that you think you may not be able to make even the minimum payment on time, but then you probably have much larger issues).
I don't like autopay because I like to review my bill and make sure that I actually charged everything on there. More than a few times/year there are discrepancies and it's a lot easier to have the charge removed before you pay the bill, than to pay then try to claw back $ after the fact. I always pay my balance in full.
The only reason to not have automatic minimum payments set up on the very last date is if the OP would rather be delinquent and pay the penalty for missing a payment, which is exactly what happened here. Except OP also wants the late fees to be waived.
Apr 19, 2019, 9:54 am
#42
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
AMEX sure does have some unfriendly customer business practices.
1. Removing points because you paid late on your bill and then charging a rather expensive fee (for something so stupid) to get them back.
2. Closing accounts because the account had a returned payment (whether a technical glitch or on accident).
3. Posting earned points an additional statement after the 1st statement closes - longest in the industry.
4. Random financial reviews when nothing warranted them, with no notice given, so your card gets declined at the register.
5. Excise tax charges on transferred points with US airlines.
If you're not a heavy Hilton or Delta user, I don't see a point in having an AMEX. They should stop calling it "Card Member" and just start calling you a customer.
1. Removing points because you paid late on your bill and then charging a rather expensive fee (for something so stupid) to get them back.
2. Closing accounts because the account had a returned payment (whether a technical glitch or on accident).
3. Posting earned points an additional statement after the 1st statement closes - longest in the industry.
4. Random financial reviews when nothing warranted them, with no notice given, so your card gets declined at the register.
5. Excise tax charges on transferred points with US airlines.
If you're not a heavy Hilton or Delta user, I don't see a point in having an AMEX. They should stop calling it "Card Member" and just start calling you a customer.
Apr 19, 2019, 10:05 am
#43
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
I don't like autopay because I like to review my bill and make sure that I actually charged everything on there. More than a few times/year there are discrepancies and it's a lot easier to have the charge removed before you pay the bill, than to pay then try to claw back $ after the fact. I always pay my balance in full.
Apr 19, 2019, 1:02 pm
#45
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Not true at all. Where did I complain about the late fee that I paid? In ADDITION to the late fee, they want to charge ANOTHER fee to reinstate points. THAT is the issue. Why the double penalty. If you want to withhold points unless late fee is paid, FINE, not OK to charge late fee + another fee.