AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant "forfeited" points!?

Old Apr 15, 2019, 2:29 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by GetSetJetSet
I don't like autopay because I like to review my bill and make sure that I actually charged everything on there. More than a few times/year there are discrepancies and it's a lot easier to have the charge removed before you pay the bill, than to pay then try to claw back $ after the fact.
Autopay happens on the due date, which is never going to be before the day that you'd pay manually (unless you pay late, of course). Any credits that post to your account after the statement date but before the due date will reduce the auto-pay amount. "Pay in full" means the statement balance, minus any payments or credits received before the due date, which would include any interim credit issued for a disputed charge. So, nothing you mentioned is a reason to not have auto-pay turned on.
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Old Apr 15, 2019, 2:57 pm
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Originally Posted by GetSetJetSet
I don't like autopay because I like to review my bill and make sure that I actually charged everything on there. More than a few times/year there are discrepancies and it's a lot easier to have the charge removed before you pay the bill, than to pay then try to claw back $ after the fact. I always pay my balance in full.
I don't think this make sense? Presumably you'd review the payment before the payment due date anyway, so it's irrelevant if you are on autopay or not...

FWIW, I have never had a problem disputing a charge after making payment. In AMEX's case, they have always removed the disputed transaction as soon as I filed the dispute, so the only difference is that it is credited if already paid.
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Old Apr 15, 2019, 4:58 pm
  #18  
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This is funny. The simple solution is automatic payments ... it will autopay on the latest date possible, I really see no downside in that ... that's why I have a 100% on-time payment record.

OP, you forgot to pay and Amex is clear about the rules ... not sure what you are complaining about.
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Old Apr 16, 2019, 1:10 am
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by WrightHI
Have you tried calling Amex? IME its usually straightforward to get fees waived when a good customer forgets a payment once in a while.
I would agree with this suggestion while adding that your best approach is to recognize that all fees incurred are warranted and that you are asking them to reimburse the fee as a courtesy (You could even as others have suggested mention that you've even turned on autopay so that this will not happen again). BTW, this policy of charging to reinstate the points has been around for a long time so it's going to be hard to argue with them about the rationale of something that's been engrained in Amex's rule for quite a while.
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Old Apr 16, 2019, 2:35 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by GetSetJetSet
I get that we're all numbers, I think the main thing is the policy itself bothers me. If you want to withold the points pending the bill and late fee being paid that's fine, but charging another fee on top of that just feels petty and like they're trying to take advantage of their customers.
If they only charged a late fee of $62 and no points reinstatement fee would that feel any better? i.e. how much of this is psychological because it feels like two fees vs. the actual amount? I mean, I sort of get it, but I'm also in the camp of if you otherwise like the card I don't know if I'd want to blow up the relationship over $35.
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Old Apr 16, 2019, 4:51 am
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Originally Posted by GetSetJetSet
You'd think so, but the obstinate woman on the phone was not very understanding. If extorting me $35 is the hill AMEX wants to die on, perhaps I should reconsider our 15+ year relationship and move my business elsewhere.
Hyperbole, or do you really believe charging a late fee(s) is extortion?

I don't know the policy at Chase or Citi regarding late fees and or reinstatement fees, since I don't pay my credit card bills late, but I doubt AMEX is the only CC company with these charges.
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Old Apr 16, 2019, 8:51 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by Steve M
Autopay happens on the due date, which is never going to be before the day that you'd pay manually (unless you pay late, of course). Any credits that post to your account after the statement date but before the due date will reduce the auto-pay amount. "Pay in full" means the statement balance, minus any payments or credits received before the due date, which would include any interim credit issued for a disputed charge. So, nothing you mentioned is a reason to not have auto-pay turned on.
Not sure if this is new, or depends on the card, but when signing up my new cards for auto-pay you get to select when auto-pay happens.
The default used to be like 7-10 days prior to due date, but when I did this for my new Delta Reserve, you choose how many days AFTER statement closing date.
There's no option to specify:
On due date
or 1 week before

I'm not sure (will have to check my 5 amex cards) if the due date is a consistent 21 days or whatever after statement closing date.
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Old Apr 16, 2019, 8:57 am
  #23  
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I have all of my accounts set to autopay "25" days after the statement date.
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Old Apr 16, 2019, 11:08 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by txpenny
Hyperbole, or do you really believe charging a late fee(s) is extortion?

I don't know the policy at Chase or Citi regarding late fees and or reinstatement fees, since I don't pay my credit card bills late, but I doubt AMEX is the only CC company with these charges.
I have no problem with a late fee for an overdue bill. Having the customer pay their bill in full, pay a late fee and then holding their points hostage unless they pay an additional fee to get them back feels like extortion. Certainly doesn't make me feel good about AMEX.
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Old Apr 16, 2019, 1:58 pm
  #25  
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When I was on the phone with AMEX, I asked to speak with a supervisor and was told that wasn't possible but they would totally call me back within 24 hours. 48+ hours and counting, still no contact from AMEX. Very clear that they simply don't care and hope if they ignore long enough I'll be exasperated enough to give up and just eat the $35. That's the kind of customer service that really engenders loyalty and makes me want to bring more business to AMEX. Well done!
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Old Apr 16, 2019, 2:15 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by txpenny
Hyperbole, or do you really believe charging a late fee(s) is extortion?

I don't know the policy at Chase or Citi regarding late fees and or reinstatement fees, since I don't pay my credit card bills late, but I doubt AMEX is the only CC company with these charges.
Most other lenders have a rule to waive the occasional late fee (usually one per year per account, or something like that). If you call in they just do it. It's happened to me a few times -- just 1 or 2 days late because I missed an alert.

Not giving points if a minimum payment is missed is a horrible policy. Very few lenders still do that.

If the OP doesn't like the policy I don't see the problem with moving business elsewhere. It's not about the $35, it's about whether you want to do business with a company that is inflexible. I've given up on Amex for similar reasons -- I find them very customer-unfriendly in general (not just because of stuff like this). I stopped using Barclay for the same reason -- they are just a horrible company to deal with. I find Chase to be the best for actual products, benefits, and customer service, by far.
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Old Apr 16, 2019, 3:14 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by VegasGambler
....I find Chase to be the best for actual products, benefits, and customer service, by far.
This seems to be Chase's corresponding policy, with a longer grace period, but the entire points balance at risk, and no reinstatement option:

you'll immediately lose all your points if your account status changes, or your account is closed, for any of the following reasons:

you don't make the minimum payment on your account within 60 days of the due date...We won't reinstate points you lose, unless we've made an error.
https://ultimaterewardspoints.chase...._ltg=UR2Footer
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Old Apr 16, 2019, 4:16 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by mia
This seems to be Chase's corresponding policy, with a longer grace period, but the entire points balance at risk, and no reinstatement option:



https://ultimaterewardspoints.chase...._ltg=UR2Footer
Well, there is a big difference between not paying for 60 days (which is significantly delinquent, reported to credit agencies, possibly at risk of account closure and being sent to an external collection agency, etc) and missing a payment by 1-2 days. Remember that until it's 30 days late it's purely an internal matter -- it doesn't even show up on your credit report.

Amex will also take your entire point balance if your account is closed so there's no difference there (I keep an everyday card that I rarely use just to keep my MR points alive)
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Old Apr 16, 2019, 4:24 pm
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by VegasGambler
Well, there is a big difference between not paying for 60 days (which is significantly delinquent, reported to credit agencies, possibly at risk of account closure and being sent to an external collection agency, etc) and missing a payment by 1-2 days.
Missing a payment by 1-2 days won't forfeit points with Amex. Read the above-quoted terms carefully. The late payment fee kicks in the day after the payment is due, but the points forfeiture happens only if the payment isn't received by the next statement. So the payment has to be more than 5 days late in order for points to be forfeited.
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Old Apr 17, 2019, 2:09 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by GetSetJetSet
I get that we're all numbers, I think the main thing is the policy itself bothers me. If you want to withold the points pending the bill and late fee being paid that's fine, but charging another fee on top of that just feels petty and like they're trying to take advantage of their customers.
Yeah, in principal it sucks to lose tens of thousands of points for even being 24 hrs late but there are ways to mitigate this.. Such as setting automatic payment of minimum amount due. The rule is petty because they get late fee, periodic interest AND forfeiture of points. It generates bad press but until they change it we have to follow it. On the bright side, bonvoys have devalued a lot so it could have been worse had it been starpoints that were taken away =P
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