BugsyPal

Couldn't see if this was posted elsewhere; if so please move to proper thread.

Just received my Amex GC statement and it was rather thick this month. *LOL*

Turns out there are several pages outlining a host of changes to account terms.
Effective 1 May 2019


In summation:

Express Cash service is no longer being offered. Don't know if this applies to ourselves or in general, but never used the thing so have no idea.

Express Cash service will now be treated as cash advances complete with fees and interest charges.

There will be a new row on statements showing "Cash Advances" on statements giving maximum limit for any particular card account.

AMEX will no longer allow cash advances from ATM to be withdrawn from checking accounts. Rather such transactions will be billed as "cash advance" charged to the card account.

Charges will not be placed onto "Pay Over Time" balances if doing so would cause pay over time and cash advance balance in total to exceed "pay over time" limit.

Cash advances will accrue interest from time of actual date of transaction, and "you cannot avoid paying interest on cash advances".

"We decide whether to approve a charge, including cash advances subject to Limits on Cash Advances, based on how you spend and pay on this Account and other accounts you have with our Affiliates. We also consider your credit history and personal resources that we know about.

Cash Advance Limits

Zync Card, $3,000
Green Card $3,000
Gold Card $6,000
Platinum Card $8,000
Centurion Card $10,000

There are also changes to agreement regarding transfer of funds electronically (EFT)

Steve M

Wow - this is the end of an era. Express Cash goes back at least 30 years. I found this feature very useful in two situations: Las Vegas, since the ATMs there allow you withdraw up to $5000 per transaction, which far exceeds the bank-issued ATM cards, and overseas, since there was no forex fee. The current charges are a fixed 3% service fee, with next-day debiting of your registered checking account for the entire amount. How this compares with the new system depends entirely on what the transaction fee is, in addition to the interest rate. Let's assume an interest rate of 20%. Assuming you pay in full as of the next statement due date, this means interest is accruing from 20 to 50 days, or 1.1% to 2.7% of the transaction amount. Something tells me this is going to be in addition to a transaction fee.

BugsyPal

You can log into your AMEX account and view "account agreement to review changes.

But briefly:
Cash Advance:
5% of an ATM cash advance (including any fee charged by the ATM
operator) or other cash advance, with a minimum of $10. We will add this
fee to the Cash Advance balance.

ExpressPay
Effective Immediately, the ExpressPay sub-section included in Part 2 of the Cardmember Agreement is deleted in its entirety and replaced with:
Contactless Transactions Cards issued on your Account may be equipped to enable you to make tap and pay charges
using contactless technology. You can request Cards that are not equipped with this capability.
Also, we may deactivate this capability at any time.

Effective May 1, 2019, your Cardmember Agreement will be amended as follows:
How Your American Express Account Works in Part 2 of the Cardmember Agreement is amended by deleting the second paragraph in the Words we
use in the Agreement sub-section and replacing it with the following:
Card means any card or other device that we issue to access your Account. A charge is any amount added to your Account, such as
purchases, cash advances, fees and interest charges. A purchase is a charge for goods or services. A cash advance is a charge to get
cash or cash equivalents, including travelers cheques, gift cheques, foreign currency, money orders, casino gaming chips, race track wagers
or similar offline and online betting transactions.

About using your card in Part 2 of the Cardmember Agreement is amended by deleting the first two paragraphs of the Using the card sub-section and
replacing them with the following:

You may use the card to make purchases. At our discretion, we may permit you to make cash advances.
We decide whether to approve a charge, including cash advances subject to Limits on Cash Advances below, based on how you spend and
pay on this Account and other accounts you have with us and our Affiliates. We also consider your credit history and your personal resources that we know about

Detail of Changes to the EFT Agreement

This notice amends Your Agreement for Transferring Funds Electronically ("EFT Agreement") as described below. We have the right to amend as

described in the EFT Agreement. Any terms in the EFT Agreement conflicting with this change are replaced fully and completely. Terms not changed by

this notice remain in full force and effect. If you have any questions, please call the number on the back of your Card or on your billing statement.

Effective May 1, 2019, the EFT Agreement will be amended as follows:

The How Express Cash works section is deleted.

The Limits on amounts and frequency of withdrawals section is deleted.

The Unauthorized transactions section is deleted and replaced with the following:

Unauthorized transactions
Tell us AT ONCE if you believe that a transaction has been made without your permission using your card or information about your card
account. Calling us is the best way of keeping your possible losses down. You could lose all of the money in your bank account (plus your
maximum overdraft line of credit, if applicable).
Call anytime at 1-800-528-4800 (or 1-336-393-1111 collect, if not in the U.S.) You may also write to us at American Express, Electronic Funds
Services, P.O. Box 981532, El Paso, TX 79998-1532.
The third bulleted sentence of the Improper transactions or payments section is deleted.
The We may end the service section is amended by deleting the first sentence of that section.

About your Minimum Payment Due

The Minimum Payment Due is the Pay In Full New Balance plus any Pay Over Time Minimum Due. To

calculate the Pay Over Time Minimum Due for each statement, we start with the higher of:

How we calculate your
Minimum Payment Due
(1) interest charged on the statement plus 1% of the
Pay Over Time New Balance (excluding interest on
the statement); or
(2) $35.
Then we round to the nearest dollar and add any Pay
Over Time amount past due. Your Pay Over Time
Minimum Due will not exceed your Pay Over Time
New Balance. You may pay more than the Minimum
Payment Due, up to your entire outstanding balance,
at any time.

Etc.., etc, etc...

Again these are only snap shots; AMEX certainly will be informing affected account holders directly.



The How to contact us about the services section is deleted and replaced with the following:

How to contact us about the services

You can call us at 1-800-IPAY-AXP for Pay By Phone questions, at 1-800-528-2122 for Pay By Computer questions, and at 1-800-528-4800

for AutoPay questions. You may also write to us at American Express, Electronic Funds Services, P.O. Box 981531, El Paso, TX

79998-1531.

The We may end the service section is amended by deleting the first sentence of that section.



that we know about.

About using your card in Part 2 of the Cardmember Agreement is further amended by

Steve M

So, cash withdrawals using a charge card go from 3% fee and no interest, to a 5% fee plus interest. That changes it from something I've used occasionally for convenience to an emergency-only option.

BugsyPal

Interest on Cash Advances and Pay Over Time is Prime + about 21% IIRC. Very steep.

Was taught and still believe that cash advances on any credit/charge card are desperate acts. Only to be done when there is absolutely no other way, and one needed money *that* badly. If one had or has to do it; best on card without any other balance so the loan can be paid off quickly.

Have spoken about Amex's Pay Over Time previously. It can be useful tool in one's credit mix; but far to dangerous in wrong hands. Anyone with a decent to excellent credit score should have or be able to obtain a card with lower interest rate than what Amex is charging. Worse you cannot get at the POT balance without paying off current bill and any charges for next statement.

Way AMEX has the thing set up it isn't that much different than taking a cash advance. Especially if one enrolls in the "Pay Over Time Direct" which moves *all* eligible transactions over soon as they hit your account. That means no grace period, and one is paying that high APR from the get go.

Steve M

My rate is Prime + 5.9% - I'm sure this varies by account.

Yep. That's why this change is so fundamental. Amex credit card cash withdrawals have always been cash advances. However, Express Cash on charge cards wasn't a cash advance - it was just another means of withdrawing cash at an ATM from your linked checking account, in addition to that account's native ATM card.

Steve M

I took a closer look at mine. Although my Pay Over Time is Prime + 5.9%, Express Cash has a new interest rate of Prime + 21.99%, which currently is 27.49%. So that's going to be an average of 2.6% interest (assuming you pay in full on the due date) plus the 5% fee for cash access.

BugsyPal

POT treats certain AMEX charges like a credit card, so can see why APR would vary; better credit scores and so forth receive lower rates.

Express Cash is now being treated (IMHO) same as a cash advance which is a nothing more now than a loan. Previously AMEX treated the thing as a service with a fee tacked on for their bother. Now they are looking to make money.

Steve M

That's not just your opinion - that's exactly what the new terms state: Express Cash is going away completely, and cash withdrawals from a charge card are now Cash Advances.

That's exactly what they're doing. But in doing so, they remove a very useful and unique feature from their charge card products.

hedylarue

This to me was one of the best benefits Amex offered and I'm really upset about this change. It was one of the things that made me feel the annual fee was 100% worth it every year. I used it a few times in emergency situations and trust me, when you are in a situation where you need it, it's invaluable. Essentially, they would connect your Amex card to your bank account so you could use it as an ATM card. The funds would be drawn directly from your bank account and you would just pay a service charge. It was not considered a cash advance and did not accrue interest because the funds were being taking right from your bank account like an ATM card would.

It's not something you would use just because, it would be a way to get funds if your ATM card didn't work, usually because it either wasn't recognized by the machine you were trying to use or because your bank flagged it and shut your card off. I've been in both situations traveling in remote places at different hours of the day. Yes, I always bring cash to change in emergencies but places might be closed if you get to an airport late...there are a lot of situations you can try to prepare for and still end up in a bind.

Admittedly, this has happened less as networks and banks have gotten better and I haven't had to use this a lot. Most people probably never use this. But the extra level of security in being able to get cash really gave me piece of mind.

It's kind of strange that Amex would discontinue this. It's not like you could not pay the bill....the funds were taken right from your bank account. I guess they want to make more money, but when you have customers already paying $550 a year for their card...idk.

I'll manage but, for me at least, this really set the Amex apart as a card that you needed as a frequent traveler because they provided you with extra support and protection around the world that no one else provided. I'm sad to lose this!

mia

What we do not know is how often American Express was unable to draw the funds because the account had an insufficient balance, or had been closed, or the withdrawal was disputed because cardholders didn't remember how the feature works.

hedylarue

That's just the thing...if Amex couldn't withdraw the funds, you wouldn't be able to take them out at the ATM. It was attached directly to your bank account so if you didn't have the $$ in your account, you couldn't withdraw it. You couldn't draw on a closed account. You needed to set a PIN so it's definitely possible someone could get hold of yours and steal $$ but it's much harder than taking a stolen card to a store or using it on the internet...which happens all the time. So there could have been some fraud, but I would guess it was way lower than fraud on regular purchases.

Steve M

I'm not sure that you understand how Express Cash works. As far as the linked checking account is concerned, it's not an ATM withdrawal, but an ACH transaction. That is, it gets presented and processed in a manner that's closer to a check than it is an ATM or debit card withdrawal. One aspect of ACH is that there's no such thing as instant approval or denial of transactions. They get processed in a daily batch, so the entity that submits an ACH withdrawal doesn't know until the morning of the next business day (or second day if the transaction happens after the current day's cutoff) that a transaction is going to be rejected.

Using ACH in this manner was a clever idea of Amex's. Among other benefits, it works with any US-based checking account without needing any cooperation or agreement with the bank.

So, Express Cash is giving you instant money, and taking it on faith with no way to immediately verify that the ACH withdrawal will be paid when submitted to the linked account. Amex does know your account payment history and overall credit situation, so one way of looking at it is that it's not much different than allowing someone to charge a purchase in the same amount with Amex not having a guarantee that they'll be paid by the cardholder when the payment is due. And, I would imagine that Very Bad Things happen to an account that gets an Express Cash transaction returned to Amex unpaid. But there is a risk there for them. And, it would not surprise me that occasionally someone has abused Express Cash as part of a bustout, and Amex got left holding the bag. Part of the 3% service fee no doubt goes to pay for that.

hedylarue

If that's how it works I stand corrected. I doubt widespread fraud was the reason they are discontinuing but who knows....it really doesn't matter why they are doing it...they are.

Anyway...my point was I thought it was a valuable benefit...it helped me out of a couple of jams over the years and the extra security it gave me when traveling was great. I'm bummed they are getting rid of it.

Steve M

I doubt that as well. I suspect that it's being done under the concept of it being an additional revenue opportunity due to the interest being charged.