Business Platinum WeWork benefit to 12.31.2020.
#61
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 6,384
The fair market value is whatever the benefit could be sold for on the open market. And as I mentioned before, Regus sells precisely the same benefit (i.e., restricted 9-6pm access) on the open market for around $230/month. Similarly, in the Bay Area, WeWork sells a membership like this for $300/month = $3600/year (but it only covers the Bay Area). A single hot desk at a single location costs $420 - $550/month depending on location ($5000 - $6600/year) -- admittedly it provides 24/7 access, but it is also twice the cost, and limited to one facility.
Based on market numbers alone I don't see how you can so confidently claim $2700/month is "deceiving". Again, just because YOU wouldn't pay that much for it doesn't mean WeWork couldn't get that price for it. It's right in line with the prices being charged out there --- in fact $2700 is even lower than most of the prices you can find for similar services.
Based on market numbers alone I don't see how you can so confidently claim $2700/month is "deceiving". Again, just because YOU wouldn't pay that much for it doesn't mean WeWork couldn't get that price for it. It's right in line with the prices being charged out there --- in fact $2700 is even lower than most of the prices you can find for similar services.
#62
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend; Moderator: American Express, Capital One, Citi, Chase, Credit Card Programs, Diners Club, Signatures
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,884
I understand the distinction between asking price and market value. I also understand that you know how much you would pay. I struggle to understand how you know what most people would pay, and why you think it is misleading for American Express to refer to the MSRP in their marketing.
#63
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 6,384
I understand the distinction between asking price and market value. I also understand that you know how much you would pay. I struggle to understand how you know what most people would pay, and why you think it is misleading for American Express to refer to the MSRP in their marketing.
It's misleading for AMEX to use MSRP because of the fact that most folks would not get $2700 of value, much less pay $2700 for this benefit. Again, I don't know whether that's true or not, but I don't think anyone else (other than employees of WeWork and AXP who have the analytics) would know either. Partly, I form my conclusion based on the (limited) number of SB cardholders I know and the variety of folks I've met in WeWork spaces. There's certainly bias, but that's what I think. I tend to balk at most inflated MSRPs anyways, so it's not like this is the only scenario where I dislike.
#64
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: American Express Platinum, Chase Sapphire Reserve
Posts: 619
I don't know, but it's an assumption I'm willing to make. This is based on the fact that the overwhelming majority (say, 90%) of cardholders do not currently have a co-working membership, or already have an equivalent and don't see this limited offering as an acceptable replacement (or any other number of reasons). If they don't need such a membership, I don't believe that most people would pay anywhere close to $2700. They might see the value of the membership, the benefits of which I'm not necessarily debating, but their willingness to pay is not strongly tied to that.
It's misleading for AMEX to use MSRP because of the fact that most folks would not get $2700 of value, much less pay $2700 for this benefit. Again, I don't know whether that's true or not, but I don't think anyone else (other than employees of WeWork and AXP who have the analytics) would know either. Partly, I form my conclusion based on the (limited) number of SB cardholders I know and the variety of folks I've met in WeWork spaces. There's certainly bias, but that's what I think. I tend to balk at most inflated MSRPs anyways, so it's not like this is the only scenario where I dislike.
It's misleading for AMEX to use MSRP because of the fact that most folks would not get $2700 of value, much less pay $2700 for this benefit. Again, I don't know whether that's true or not, but I don't think anyone else (other than employees of WeWork and AXP who have the analytics) would know either. Partly, I form my conclusion based on the (limited) number of SB cardholders I know and the variety of folks I've met in WeWork spaces. There's certainly bias, but that's what I think. I tend to balk at most inflated MSRPs anyways, so it's not like this is the only scenario where I dislike.
In fact, in this case Im kind of surprised they chose $2700 instead of a higher number. On my invoice they are charging a price that indicates it would cost closer to $3000 to buy it myself (if I could buy it). They obviously went out of their way to choose a lower number precisely to avoid being misleading.
I mean were at dead horse territory at this point, but so far you havent made any arguments whatsoever that indicate even the slightest deception on the part of AX in this case. Its clear what the benefit is, the price quoted is lower than the benefit would cost to purchase on the market, and the reader of the ad can determine for themselves whether they would use it or not and therefore whether it is worth $2700 or higher or lower to them. You seem to be focused on the fact that it isnt a 24/7 program but that is also totally clear and in fact a 24/7 global access to any WeWork would cost far more than $2700 on the open market. The issue is here whether it is a deception; it simply isnt. Whether it is a benefit every cardholder would buy otherwise is a completely separate question, but theres nothing in the ad that suggests or implies that every cardholder would buy it or even use it.
Same goes for every other benefit advertised by AX. Is the Uber credit worth $200 to every cardholder of the personal card? Not if theres no Uber in your city or you never use Uber. Is that misleading too?
To get back on topic: Ive been using this in LA and the Bay Area and so far have found it super easy to reserve rooms. One nice thing about the Bay Area is most of the WeWorks are all close together, so it hardly matters if one is full since there are many others to choose from nearby. So far in my experience most of them have plenty of open desks, at least the ones I want to use.
The two LA WeWorks Ive used havent been ideal, though, because like the rest of LA they tend to be far from other things; like the Manhattan Beach WeWork has no coffee shop really nearby, and good lunch food is so far I pretty much have to drive to get there. Nothing against WeWork per se, just LA. Uptown Oakland on the other hand not only has a coffee shop right in the lobby of the building (although WeWork provides decent free coffee and tea, I like to sometimes grab a croissant or something), but a ton of walkable lunch spots right nearby.
Im glad they limit the number of reservable spots because its nice to be able to go to a WeWork that isnt too crowded.
I havent yet tried to stay past 6pm but theres clearly no enforcement of a 6pm deadline. If you enter the space before 6pm and it doesnt totally close at 6, there doesnt seem to be any reason or way for them to kick you out. So if you need to keep working for a little longer it seems like you can, at least in some of these spaces. I will report back with more data points.
Some spaces say the reservation is midnight-midnight and some say 9-6 so Im guessing that might indicate whether you can stay or not? Not sure, will find out.
Last edited by synzero; Sep 15, 2019 at 10:18 am
#65
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: American Express Platinum, Chase Sapphire Reserve
Posts: 619
New DP: Stayed at a midnight-midnight WeWork reservation past 6pm, of course nothing happened and I was able to cheerfully keep working. Even better, when I left close to 7pm I tried my keycard and it still worked, let me in to the building from the exterior door as well as the WeWork space itself.
This thing is getting better and better.
UPDATE: Just to see what would happen, came to a WeWork in downtown Oakland before 9am to see if I could get in. Was able to card into the space at 8:45am but wasn't able to get into the elevator before that (guard had to get me in). Not sure if it is because I was early or because I hadn't checked in yet (also I'd never been to that WeWork before).
UPDATE #2 : Different WeWorks definitely have different amenities. One in SF served us fresh croissants and pastries in the morning which were actually quite good. Most have an "honesty market" which honestly isn't great, just snacks and packaged things like granola bars or cereal. This downtown Oakland one has something called "Byte Foods" which apparently is a startup that serves heatable things like samosas and sandwiches -- it actually looks decent.
Also, they severely restricted availability to Amex cardholders in Berkeley. There used to be many spaces available but now they have totally cut off access to one building and the other one just has a handful, so it is now quite difficult to reserve there unless you reserve many days in advance. Thankfully I mostly want to work in Oakland or SF, but if I lived in Berkeley I'd be cut off. However, they seem to allow unlimited reservations so if I really wanted to guarantee space in Berkeley I could reserve in advance. It does mean however that WeWork could restrict access to this at any time. For now, it's great, but who knows how long this golden age will last
This thing is getting better and better.
UPDATE: Just to see what would happen, came to a WeWork in downtown Oakland before 9am to see if I could get in. Was able to card into the space at 8:45am but wasn't able to get into the elevator before that (guard had to get me in). Not sure if it is because I was early or because I hadn't checked in yet (also I'd never been to that WeWork before).
UPDATE #2 : Different WeWorks definitely have different amenities. One in SF served us fresh croissants and pastries in the morning which were actually quite good. Most have an "honesty market" which honestly isn't great, just snacks and packaged things like granola bars or cereal. This downtown Oakland one has something called "Byte Foods" which apparently is a startup that serves heatable things like samosas and sandwiches -- it actually looks decent.
Also, they severely restricted availability to Amex cardholders in Berkeley. There used to be many spaces available but now they have totally cut off access to one building and the other one just has a handful, so it is now quite difficult to reserve there unless you reserve many days in advance. Thankfully I mostly want to work in Oakland or SF, but if I lived in Berkeley I'd be cut off. However, they seem to allow unlimited reservations so if I really wanted to guarantee space in Berkeley I could reserve in advance. It does mean however that WeWork could restrict access to this at any time. For now, it's great, but who knows how long this golden age will last
Last edited by synzero; Sep 18, 2019 at 10:56 am
#67
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: American Express Platinum, Chase Sapphire Reserve
Posts: 619
I've determined that the hours you can actually use the location vary quite a bit. Officially it's 9am-6pm which is when the front desk is staffed and you have to check in with the desk every time you use the benefit. But, as far as I can tell, your key card is active at midnight at many locations, which gives you access to the WeWork space and *sometimes* to the building (it varies). For example, downtown Oakland you can't get to the third floor before 9am with your key card -- but you CAN get to the second floor before that, which doesn't have a front desk but the key card will let you in to the common areas on the second floor, so if I needed to work a little before 9am I can start by going there, then go up to the third floor and check in and use the main hot desk space. Similarly, in other buildings sometimes the key card lets you in to the whole building before 9am.
I've also stayed past 6pm and had no issues, they have no idea who is there with a Global Access pass and who is there with a regular hot desk membership. If I left and tried to come back in I might not be able to get back in after 6pm at some locations, but you don't have to wrap up your work at 6pm on the dot.
Amex reservations do sometimes fill up so it is prudent to reserve in advance if you really want a space, but most locations have same-day reservations available. I have even visited more than 1 location on the same day, and there's nothing in the terms that says you can't. It DOES say in the terms that if you are a no show too many times they may cancel, so it's prudent to cancel the previous day if you're not going to use a reservation. You can cancel up until midnight the prior day.
#68
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 923
Its interesting... in the larger DC area locations, I have never checked in at the front desk, unless I needed something. Just reserved a desk in the app, arrived, sat down, coffee, whatever, mvoed above. The only time in DC area was 1875K Street, which is a smaller lobby/entry way where you almost have to smile ans say hello.. and actually, to the front desk staff credit, they seem to know all the "regulars" there, and even started to recognize me and I maybe have been there 5-6 times in the last 6/7 months?
#69
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: American Express Platinum, Chase Sapphire Reserve
Posts: 619
Its interesting... in the larger DC area locations, I have never checked in at the front desk, unless I needed something. Just reserved a desk in the app, arrived, sat down, coffee, whatever, mvoed above. The only time in DC area was 1875K Street, which is a smaller lobby/entry way where you almost have to smile ans say hello.. and actually, to the front desk staff credit, they seem to know all the "regulars" there, and even started to recognize me and I maybe have been there 5-6 times in the last 6/7 months?
#70
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 923
You make a good point... when I'm there, I'm usually using services (paid booking of conference room for a meeting) or printing or even swiping to move between floors/spaces, so I figured my digital "footprint" shows I'm there... but theres no harm in checking in , as you say, to avoid being marked potentially as an abuser of the system.
#71
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: American Express Platinum, Chase Sapphire Reserve
Posts: 619
You make a good point... when I'm there, I'm usually using services (paid booking of conference room for a meeting) or printing or even swiping to move between floors/spaces, so I figured my digital "footprint" shows I'm there... but theres no harm in checking in , as you say, to avoid being marked potentially as an abuser of the system.
So, apparently you don't "really" need to check in -- checking in doesn't prove you were there. Maybe using your keycard does something, who knows, but despite what it says in the T&C's they don't seem to really care much about no shows.
#72
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: TPA/ABZ
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold. GGL/CCR.
Posts: 13,210
I've had the Platinum Business Card WeWork account for a while but only used it for the first time today for half a day spare in Dallas. I was prepared to be underwhelmed but I have to say it's excellent. I may well take out a subscription after this free trial period expires.
#74
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: American Express Platinum, Chase Sapphire Reserve
Posts: 619
I've had the Platinum Business Card WeWork account for a while but only used it for the first time today for half a day spare in Dallas. I was prepared to be underwhelmed but I have to say it's excellent. I may well take out a subscription after this free trial period expires.
#75
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: TPA/ABZ
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold. GGL/CCR.
Posts: 13,210