Amex (USA) restricts bonus based on number of accounts opened/closed (June 2018)
Dec 12, 2018, 4:46 pm
#181
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,192
"Tried referring my wife to the Gold card last night, but it gave her the popup. Tried the AMP Plat after that - instantly approved. Then she was instantly approved for the Biz Green as well. Tried again on the Gold this morning, but no luck. Yet she was immediately approved for the no-fee Hilton right after trying the Gold. They just don't want her to have the Gold card for some reason! I guess I'll just keep trying daily."
Dec 14, 2018, 3:23 pm
#182
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: FL
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Plat, IC Plat Amb, HH Diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 1,299
The reality is is that people lie. I am not defending the banks, but 99.9% of the time when someone comes on here and says “XYZ bank treated me so unfairly wahhhh I’m a perfect customers, etc. etc. etc.” they are not being truthful, or at best “misremembering”. Banks don’t take unilateral adverse action against good customers, there’s always a reason. Now AMEX has some sort of algorithm for deciding whether or not you are bonus eligible. For all we know it has 3 levels—auto deny (pop up seen), auto approve (no pop up), manual review (no pop up). Even with the pop ups, terms, etc. AMEX is by far the most generous CC company (Citibank IT shenanigans ignored) so I’m just looking to work within the rules.
Dec 14, 2018, 4:10 pm
#183
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: EWR
Programs: World of Hyatt, Marriott Bonvoy, Hilton Honors, UA Mileage Plus
Posts: 1,254
Thanks for assuming I lie and the banks are gods. Wait until it happens to you. "I’m just looking to work within the rules." There are no set rules. They can just deny you a bonus if they want. I did not lie when I said that I had opened 3 CCs in the last 3 years and never MF or anything with amex. I really dont know why they would deny my bonus. It seems so odd.
I signed up for a card I knew I wasn’t 100% qualified to receive the welcome bonus, didn’t get a pop up, went through with the transaction, and now I sit here with no bonus after meeting minimum spend. It’s a bit of a crapshoot, but there’s little downside to applying for AMEX cards since there is no hard pull and self referrals.
Dec 16, 2018, 2:55 pm
#184
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
American Express bonus eligibility tool questions
There must be a thread addressing this, but I've searched using terms like eligibility and can't find it, so...
1. How foolproof is the Amex eligibility tool? In other words, if you don't get the online caution that you won't receive the applicable bonus, are you assured of the bonus? I kind of assume not, but would welcome any input, data points, etc.
2. Is there any "statute of limitations" re getting a bonus even if you've had a given card previously? My wife got a 50K targeted offer in the mail for the revised Amex Gold (the one with the 4X bonus on restaurants and supermarkets), so applied and got instantly approved. I realize that you can still miss out on the bonus even if you get such an offer, but we think the last time she had a Gold card (if at all) was over a decade ago. Hence this question.
3. If before activating the card she calls Amex and asks to confirm eligibility for the bonus, will a positive response from the phone rep be reliable, or is even that subject to her still not getting the bonus?
4. Re #3 , am I correct in assuming that an online chat will be better, since it would be documented in writing?
Thanks for any advice on any of this.
1. How foolproof is the Amex eligibility tool? In other words, if you don't get the online caution that you won't receive the applicable bonus, are you assured of the bonus? I kind of assume not, but would welcome any input, data points, etc.
2. Is there any "statute of limitations" re getting a bonus even if you've had a given card previously? My wife got a 50K targeted offer in the mail for the revised Amex Gold (the one with the 4X bonus on restaurants and supermarkets), so applied and got instantly approved. I realize that you can still miss out on the bonus even if you get such an offer, but we think the last time she had a Gold card (if at all) was over a decade ago. Hence this question.
3. If before activating the card she calls Amex and asks to confirm eligibility for the bonus, will a positive response from the phone rep be reliable, or is even that subject to her still not getting the bonus?
4. Re #3 , am I correct in assuming that an online chat will be better, since it would be documented in writing?
Thanks for any advice on any of this.
Dec 16, 2018, 3:17 pm
#185
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,949
I have moved your post into the thread.
1. Absence of a pop-up is not a guarantee that a bonus will be awarded. Scroll back to read very recent discussion with examples.
2. It appears that accounts CLOSED for at least seven years are not considered to disqualify a bonus. Likewise, targeted offers without the disqualification terms are common, and bonuses will be awarded even if the same card has been held very recently.
3-4. No verbal or written assurance will change the terms of an offer. Even if the bonus is awarded it can be reversed if (examples) the account is closed in less than a year, or there are returns, or prohibited types of spending are discovered in an audit. All extensively discussed in this thread.
1. Absence of a pop-up is not a guarantee that a bonus will be awarded. Scroll back to read very recent discussion with examples.
2. It appears that accounts CLOSED for at least seven years are not considered to disqualify a bonus. Likewise, targeted offers without the disqualification terms are common, and bonuses will be awarded even if the same card has been held very recently.
3-4. No verbal or written assurance will change the terms of an offer. Even if the bonus is awarded it can be reversed if (examples) the account is closed in less than a year, or there are returns, or prohibited types of spending are discovered in an audit. All extensively discussed in this thread.
Dec 16, 2018, 3:26 pm
#186
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
I have moved your post into the thread.
1. Absence of a pop-up is not a guarantee that a bonus will be awarded. Scroll back to read very recent discussion with examples.
2. It appears that accounts CLOSED for at least seven years are not considered to disqualify a bonus. Likewise, targeted offers without the disqualification terms are common, and bonuses will be awarded even if the same card has been held very recently.
3-4. No verbal or written assurance will change the terms of an offer. Even if the bonus is awarded it can be reversed if (examples) the account is closed in less than a year, or there are returns, or prohibited types of spending are discovered in an audit. All extensively discussed in this thread.
1. Absence of a pop-up is not a guarantee that a bonus will be awarded. Scroll back to read very recent discussion with examples.
2. It appears that accounts CLOSED for at least seven years are not considered to disqualify a bonus. Likewise, targeted offers without the disqualification terms are common, and bonuses will be awarded even if the same card has been held very recently.
3-4. No verbal or written assurance will change the terms of an offer. Even if the bonus is awarded it can be reversed if (examples) the account is closed in less than a year, or there are returns, or prohibited types of spending are discovered in an audit. All extensively discussed in this thread.
Dec 17, 2018, 4:57 pm
#187
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NYC, LAX, HKG
Posts: 286
AMEX is starting to respond to CFPB complaints. They admit that the absence of the pop-up does not guarantee bonus. The below sounds like a standard copy-and-paste response; I never had a Gold or PRG yet they mention it.
"While you may not have seen a pop-up confirming your ineligibility for the Welcome offer, the terms of the application stated, the Welcome offer is not available to applicants who have or have had this Card or the Premier Rewards Gold Card. We may also consider the number of American Express Cards you have opened and closed as well as other factors in making a decision on your welcome offer eligibility."
Anyone here received a different/successful outcome?
"While you may not have seen a pop-up confirming your ineligibility for the Welcome offer, the terms of the application stated, the Welcome offer is not available to applicants who have or have had this Card or the Premier Rewards Gold Card. We may also consider the number of American Express Cards you have opened and closed as well as other factors in making a decision on your welcome offer eligibility."
Anyone here received a different/successful outcome?
Dec 17, 2018, 5:20 pm
#188
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,738
Just look at the reply on the CFPB complaint - that it is so generic seems they dont even give any thought in fact finding, when the complainant never has the same products to begin with, yet that is cited as reason(s).
Isn't that also the case of post 166 reported by lotrbfme? He has not violated ANY of those factors cited in the T&Cs, even the AMEX supervisor agreed that "it is weird" that his bonus is denied.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30524736-post165.html
There is some serious flaws in the AMEX algo in their zealous attempts to guard abuse.
Last edited by Happy; Dec 17, 2018 at 5:27 pm
Dec 17, 2018, 7:10 pm
#189
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,949
Correct. American Express has sent a reply, but not an explanation. American Express is a mass market company; they can send that reply to anyone. It reiterates the terms of the offer, but it does not explain which portion justifies your denial.
Don't be distracted by this. It's not important. American Express is not claiming that you had the card previously. They are merely making the point that there are several grounds for denial. Make them tell you the specific reason that your bonus was denied.
I never had a Gold or PRG yet they mention it.
Dec 19, 2018, 6:00 pm
#190
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: JFK
Programs: AA Platinum
Posts: 325
I got a targeted offer for the personal Plat: 60K/$5K/3mo. The T&C do not have any "offer not available to previous cardholders" language. They do have the new boilerplate about "abuse and gaming". Odds on getting a bonus?
I have collected signup bonuses on 14 Amex cards in the last 3yr, starting with the infamous 100K Plat in August 2015. No outright abuse, but a RAT audit wouldn't be a good look for me.
I have collected signup bonuses on 14 Amex cards in the last 3yr, starting with the infamous 100K Plat in August 2015. No outright abuse, but a RAT audit wouldn't be a good look for me.
Dec 19, 2018, 6:19 pm
#191
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
I got a targeted offer for the personal Plat: 60K/$5K/3mo. The T&C do not have any "offer not available to previous cardholders" language. They do have the new boilerplate about "abuse and gaming". Odds on getting a bonus?
I have collected signup bonuses on 14 Amex cards in the last 3yr, starting with the infamous 100K Plat in August 2015. No outright abuse, but a RAT audit wouldn't be a good look for me.
I have collected signup bonuses on 14 Amex cards in the last 3yr, starting with the infamous 100K Plat in August 2015. No outright abuse, but a RAT audit wouldn't be a good look for me.
- See what the T&Cs are when you go online to apply for the Plat. If you don't see any "previous cardholders" language, it's worth giving it a try.
- If you've been spending above and beyond the bonus requirements on most or all of these Amex cards, you're probably safe. But if you have a good number for which the spending has stopped after simply getting the bonuses, then you're on risky terrain re an audit.
One more thought: If you decide to cool it with Amex for whatever reasons, there are possible Citi (depending on what you already have) and certainly new Capital One transferable points cards you can shoot for.
Dec 20, 2018, 11:08 pm
#192
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
After having not signed up for the new gold card because I got a pop up about having had the card before, I got a mailer with an offer code and a conspicuous lack of once in a lifetime language, and I applied and was approved without any pop ups. Hopefully the slightly different application system for the targeted offer would give pop ups as well if I wasn’t qualified and I don’t find out when the bonus is meant to come.
I wonder if having gotten the once in a lifetime pop up on the regular application had anything to do with me later getting the targeted mailer.
As a data point, assuming that the lack of a pop up and/or original receipt of the mailer means I’m not subject to Amex’s bonus screen: I have opened a number of new Amex cards, roughly one a year over the past 5 years or so, each with a sign-up bonus. Two of them (the old PRG being one of them) I closed a couple of years after opening, and several cards had been sock-drawered to some degree after having been open for a year or so, though none of them sock-drawered immediately after earning the sign-up bonus.
All of which sounds like potential red flags under the current screening processes, but it also probably helps that I have had at least one monthly transaction on all of my current accounts pretty much every month over the past year or so (excluding one very old Blue card which I’ve had for a long time and haven’t put any spend on in probably a decade), and I’ve also had substantial Amex spend overall this year, in the high 5 or low 6 digits.
So, doesn't necessarily prove anything, but in my case the targeted offer did indeed work to overcome the having-had-the-PRG-before ineligibility, and who knows if I may otherwise possibly fall afoul of Amex's new bonus-denying rules. I'll just say I have received enough MR sign-up bonuses over the years to know the exact pattern for how and when they post...
And worth reiterating that I got the targeted mailer very shortly after I tried the public application and got the "you've had this card before" popup. So if anyone else is interested in the new Gold but is similarly ineligible, could be worth putting in an application through to the popup to see if something comes in the mail thereafter.
Dec 20, 2018, 11:21 pm
#193
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
Just to follow up on this, I did indeed get the Gold card MR bonus, which posted a few days after I hit the spend and didn't require waiting until the end of the billing cycle, which is nice and is consistent with all previous MR bonuses I've gotten.
So, doesn't necessarily prove anything, but in my case the targeted offer did indeed work to overcome the having-had-the-PRG-before ineligibility, and who knows if I may otherwise possibly fall afoul of Amex's new bonus-denying rules. I'll just say I have received enough MR sign-up bonuses over the years to know the exact pattern for how and when they post...
And worth reiterating that I got the targeted mailer very shortly after I tried the public application and got the "you've had this card before" popup. So if anyone else is interested in the new Gold but is similarly ineligible, could be worth putting in an application through to the popup to see if something comes in the mail thereafter.
So, doesn't necessarily prove anything, but in my case the targeted offer did indeed work to overcome the having-had-the-PRG-before ineligibility, and who knows if I may otherwise possibly fall afoul of Amex's new bonus-denying rules. I'll just say I have received enough MR sign-up bonuses over the years to know the exact pattern for how and when they post...
And worth reiterating that I got the targeted mailer very shortly after I tried the public application and got the "you've had this card before" popup. So if anyone else is interested in the new Gold but is similarly ineligible, could be worth putting in an application through to the popup to see if something comes in the mail thereafter.
Dec 20, 2018, 11:25 pm
#194
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
Coincidence is also possible, who knows. I will say, I don't get Amex mailers pitching new cards often (probably because I already have the cards I would most likely be targetd for), so the timing did stick out to me.
Dec 21, 2018, 7:34 am
#195
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,192
(Edit: misunderstood the context of your reply, as clarified by bgriff. Sorry about that, Thunderroad.)
Last edited by Diplomatico; Dec 21, 2018 at 7:44 am
