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Amex USA terms now penalize:abuse,misuse,gaming;1st yr downgrade/close;leaked offers.

Amex USA terms now penalize:abuse,misuse,gaming;1st yr downgrade/close;leaked offers.

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Old Oct 6, 18, 12:00 pm
  #121  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Programs: SPG Plat
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Iíve put a bunch of refundable flights on my card - and do expect to cancel/refund a few of them. Would this be a flag to AMEX? Should I call them in advance to tell them? Iím not gaming to meet the minimum threshold (I would be way above) but afraid they might think so when all the refunds hit.
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Old Oct 6, 18, 8:22 pm
  #122  
 
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Originally Posted by rooivalk View Post
Iíve put a bunch of refundable flights on my card - and do expect to cancel/refund a few of them. Would this be a flag to AMEX? Should I call them in advance to tell them? Iím not gaming to meet the minimum threshold (I would be way above) but afraid they might think so when all the refunds hit.
If you're not abusing any benefits, do NOT call to announce that fact. It will seem bizarre and may only raise suspicions.
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Old Oct 6, 18, 8:44 pm
  #123  
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Originally Posted by rooivalk View Post
Iíve put a bunch of refundable flights on my card - and do expect to cancel/refund a few of them. Would this be a flag to AMEX? Should I call them in advance to tell them? Iím not gaming to meet the minimum threshold (I would be way above) but afraid they might think so when all the refunds hit.
here is a friend's experiences last year. He had a new Plat. He had met the spend all by organic spend. He had a family trip to Italy and they planned to take Viator's tours from Rome to Naples visiting a few nearby attractions, incl Pompeii and Capri, but still returned to Rome for the night (he booked IC Rome because he had Ambassador status and also wanted to use a combination of pay/ point / Ambassador buy one get one free weekend night.)
He later realized that some of the day trips were not practical with the base at Rome. So he canceled a couple of them.
AMEX clawed back his 100K sign up bonus.
He called, and was told the clawed back was due to the refund but his organic spend had already had $3K over the required spend, and he was still in the first 3 months ...
Long story short, he asked for an investigation. Took AMEX several months but eventually AMEX called him to inform him it was a mistake and the points would be put back to his account in next 2 weeks. Points returned a few days after the call.
I told the friend he should ask for courtesy points for his trouble. 10K should be a reasonable amount. He did not want to pursuit, and was just glad it did not take him more effort to get back his 100K.
It turns out AMEX Algo has refund programmed, especially if the refunded items are among the "threshold spend". But in the friend's case, when the refunds happened (less than $700 in total) he already had spent $3K more than the "threshold" even netted the refunds.

Not sure why you want to put the airline tickets purchases on the AMEX when you have already had thoughts that some of them, if not all, are to be refunded,.
Use another card(s) instead.
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Old Oct 7, 18, 12:19 am
  #124  
 
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I'm going to have the same issue. I will definitely be way over the threshold but will definitely have huge amount of refunds.

I am not sure which flights I will be taking yet (they're all refundable) and I want the 5x points, hence why I put it on the card.

I have not had this issue with other cards (purchasing then refunding) but then they were not in the welcome bonus spend threshold...
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Old Oct 7, 18, 7:54 pm
  #125  
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Originally Posted by rooivalk View Post
I'm going to have the same issue. I will definitely be way over the threshold but will definitely have huge amount of refunds.

I am not sure which flights I will be taking yet (they're all refundable) and I want the 5x points, hence why I put it on the card.

I have not had this issue with other cards (purchasing then refunding) but then they were not in the welcome bonus spend threshold...
I believe purchases / refunds AFTER the initial period of meeting spend requirement generally have no problem.
It is the stupid Algo designed to automatically flag any refund in the first 90 days period and then disqualify the bonus.
Friend did not think twice when he booked those day trips. He did not realize it was impractical to do a day trip from Rome down to Naples area for consecutive days. He should have stayed in Naples for those sightseeing activities instead.
At the end he only kept the Pompeii day trip and canceled the rest without ever knowing this would cause issues with AMEX until the reality hit.
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Old Oct 8, 18, 7:50 am
  #126  
 
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Originally Posted by Redwall420 View Post
Guys wondering how I should navigate this. I have a MB plat that I got and received the bonus from before it was discontinued. I've never gotten bonus from Vanilla plat and I'm concerned I'll get locked out from that once the card is converted into a vanilla in 2019. But I'm also concerned that I could get dinged for early cancellation. Thoughts?
I am also in the same boat. Half thinking of just applying for a Vanilla plat right away to get the bonus. 60K offer seems a bit low though.
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Old Oct 16, 18, 8:31 pm
  #127  
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I have played exactly NO games, just got screwed by a commissioned liar at Amex who led me into this:

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Old Oct 16, 18, 8:38 pm
  #128  
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Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
.... screwed by a commissioned liar at Amex who led me into this:

....
Were the points deducted because you previously held the same card, or for another reason?
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Old Oct 16, 18, 8:39 pm
  #129  
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Exclamation

Originally Posted by mia View Post
Were the points deducted because you previously held the same card, or for another reason?
So, so sorry about that! Details begin here:

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Old Oct 17, 18, 2:29 am
  #130  
 
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Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
...That salesperson explicitly and directly told me that I could "downgrade back down to a lesser Amex card once the annual fee hit.
Technically that part is true. Did the rep read you a full terms disclosure stating what would happen to the upgrade bonus if the deal is cancelled or reversed shortly thereafter? They often try to go through the disclosure very quickly, but it's a required part of the process. That would be a good time to restate the deal the way you understood it, and have the sales rep confirm or correct you.
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Old Oct 17, 18, 8:22 am
  #131  
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Originally Posted by MaxVO View Post
Technically that part is true. Did the rep read you a full terms disclosure stating what would happen to the upgrade bonus if the deal is cancelled or reversed shortly thereafter? They often try to go through the disclosure very quickly, but it's a required part of the process. That would be a good time to restate the deal the way you understood it, and have the sales rep confirm or correct you.
Did all that.
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Old Oct 17, 18, 10:43 am
  #132  
 
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Jon, I think you wound up in an odd situation. One which goes against the typical scenario these reps typically see.

In a typical deal, sure, you can cancel before the annual fee is due for payment. However, most of the time that is going to be a full year later when the fee hits.

In your situation, it was just a couple of months between upgrade, meeting the spend, and then the fee posting.

It would seem that in such a short span, it was too short to allow for the downgrade without the points being returned.

I wouldn't think that is typically something reps encounter (where a couple months later the customer downgrades when the fee hits), and they most likely were simply misinformed and used to that being an alright practice. (Which from reports around the forum, seems to be fine.)

So I don't think it was that they had any intent, but were simply incorrect in this particular situation.


Don't get me wrong, it sucks and a terrible thing to experience. Unless they're willing to go back to a recording of either (or both) calls, if they exist, then there may not be much that can come from this.
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Old Oct 17, 18, 11:03 am
  #133  
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Originally Posted by thunderlounge View Post
...So I don't think it was that they had any intent, but were simply incorrect in this particular situation..
The intent comes from me-- at length an din detail-- discussing with the Amex person who solicited me that my card came up for renewal in early October and that I wouldn't be renewing my business Plat at that time and him explicitly and repeatedly telling me I could simply downgrade to Gold or Green at that point w/o losing the offered bonus.
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Old Oct 17, 18, 11:10 am
  #134  
 
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Right, I fully understand what you told them (that you renew in OCT, and that they assured you a downgrade would be fine.)

All I was saying is that most times the AF comes due much later, and typically they don’t clawback at that point in time. In turn, the rep(s) may have simply been misinformed as it relates to the much shorter length of time, and were going off the standard answer of being able to downgrade (when the length of time between is much longer.)


If they are recorded saying that to you, hopefully AMEX will make it right. I’d be cheesed off too. I’m just saying that I’m not sure it was intentional on the part of the rep(s) to be deceptive, but perhaps more a lack of training/knowledge.
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Old Oct 18, 18, 7:04 pm
  #135  
 
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I want to apply for an SPG Business AmEx, but I'm getting a message that I'm not eligible for the welcome offer. However by the terms I think I should be eligible. I got my Marriott Premier card 2/28/16. I upgraded to the Premier Plus 5/24/2018. I don't have a Chase Marriott Business card.

So shouldn't I be eligible? I got my Chase Marriott personal card welcome bonus more than 24 months ago. I got upgraded to the Premier Plus more than 90 days ago. I did get an upgrade bonus in the last 24 months, but this card doesn't say that an upgrade bonus disqualifies me. The AmEx SPG Luxury card specifically says that a "welcome or upgrade offer" would disqualify you, but this card only says a welcome offer.

My past history with AmEx consists of an SPG personal card, which I didn't think was considered the same as a business card, a Blue Cash, and I've had a few corporate AmExes. Of the two personal cards I've had, one was closed in 2009 and the other was older than that and doesn't appear on my credit report anymore.
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