Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Credit, Debit and Prepaid Card Programs > American Express | Membership Rewards
Reload this Page >

NYTimes: "Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War"

NYTimes: "Amex, Challenged by Chase, Is Losing the Snob War"

Old Apr 23, 2017, 9:27 am
  #256  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Redondo Beach, CA USA
Programs: UA 1KMM, Bonvoy LTE+A, HH D, Nat'l EE, Hertz Plat, Avis PC
Posts: 3,695
Originally Posted by notquiteaff
In other words, they of course know that it could be made easier. But that would cost them more money, and they probably have better data than some flyertalking card members to determine whether a potential increase in its member base would be sufficient to negate the cost increase.
Of course you're right, but to me cards like the Plat and Cent should be more about the customer than about penny-pinching on the AmEx side. Just offer generous, easy-to-use benefits and ratchet up the annual fee if necessary to keep the cards profitable.

They probably have research data that tells them how many customers they'd lose at various annual fees, and they're probably already in that sweet spot that maximizes profit. But I don't have to like it!
DJ_Iceman is offline  
Old Apr 23, 2017, 10:45 am
  #257  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,625
Originally Posted by DJ_Iceman
Of course you're right, but to me cards like the Plat and Cent should be more about the customer than about penny-pinching on the AmEx side. Just offer generous, easy-to-use benefits and ratchet up the annual fee if necessary to keep the cards profitable.

They probably have research data that tells them how many customers they'd lose at various annual fees, and they're probably already in that sweet spot that maximizes profit. But I don't have to like it!
They could move the annual fee to $2000 if they offered $1750 in easy-to-use travel credit. Or pick any numbers X and (X - $250), as long as X is below the annual travel spend I am willing and able to put on the card.
notquiteaff is offline  
Old Apr 23, 2017, 3:39 pm
  #258  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: LIT
Programs: Blinged Out
Posts: 712
Originally Posted by notquiteaff
They could move the annual fee to $2000 if they offered $1750 in easy-to-use travel credit. Or pick any numbers X and (X - $250), as long as X is below the annual travel spend I am willing and able to put on the card.
Ha! Absolutely! One could write off the annual fee as a business expense, and enjoy the perks.

The higher barrier to entry would help weed out Charlie and Claire Churner, and AMEX would have a more stable client base going forward IMO.
SeaHawg is offline  
Old Apr 23, 2017, 4:23 pm
  #259  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by notquiteaff
They could move the annual fee to $2000 if they offered $1750 in easy-to-use travel credit. Or pick any numbers X and (X - $250), as long as X is below the annual travel spend I am willing and able to put on the card.
Originally Posted by SeaHawg
Ha! Absolutely! One could write off the annual fee as a business expense, and enjoy the perks.

The higher barrier to entry would help weed out Charlie and Claire Churner, and AMEX would have a more stable client base going forward IMO.
Actually this would not work at all unless the credit was changed to per card year instead of calendar year. Other wise you would see blogs all over the world saying to sign up to receive (X-250) in cash for the first year. In the example case it would be an extra $1750 in cash for the second calendar year travel credit. This gets worse the higher the credit.
vinhsynd is offline  
Old Apr 23, 2017, 4:25 pm
  #260  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,625
Originally Posted by vinhsynd
Actually this would not work at all unless the credit was changed to per card year instead of calendar year. Other wise you would see blogs all over the world saying to sign up to receive (X-250) in cash for the first year. In the example case it would be an extra $1750 in cash for the second calendar year travel credit. This gets worse the higher the credit.
Well, yeah, I was I imagining it to be a credit per paid annual fee.
notquiteaff is offline  
Old Apr 23, 2017, 4:27 pm
  #261  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: LIT
Programs: Blinged Out
Posts: 712
Originally Posted by notquiteaff
Well, yeah, I was I imagining it to be a credit per paid annual fee.
Exactly - per card year.
SeaHawg is offline  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 12:11 am
  #262  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA MileagePlus (Premier Gold); Hilton HHonors (Gold); Chase Ultimate Rewards; Amex Plat
Posts: 6,604
Originally Posted by vinhsynd
Actually this would not work at all unless the credit was changed to per card year instead of calendar year. Other wise you would see blogs all over the world saying to sign up to receive (X-250) in cash for the first year. In the example case it would be an extra $1750 in cash for the second calendar year travel credit. This gets worse the higher the credit.
Originally Posted by notquiteaff
Well, yeah, I was I imagining it to be a credit per paid annual fee.
There's a bigger issue here than charging an annual fee of X and giving a travel credit of X-250. This presumes that the reward structure of the card is such that you'd put travel spend on it in the first place. In the case of the CSR, most to all of my travel spend goes on that card, so I don't have a problem with this. But for the Plat? At most, I'd put a little (but probably not all) of my airline spend on it. 5x MR points vs. 3x UR points per dollar? That's a hard one. If I'm saving up for flying in the SQ suites, then I'd put it on the Plat, but if not, it would go on the CSR. So the problem with charging an annual fee of X and giving an easy to use travel credit of X-250? It transfers that spend away from my CSR, which results is a bigger opportunity cost to earn UR points the higher X is, even if I do spend that amount on travel every year.

And even worse, knowing Amex, they'd probably make it where the X-250 in travel spend either doesn't earn MR points or earns MR points at only 1 per dollar, unless you purchase through Amex Travel. Amex is great at giving you benefits that are difficult, annoying, or impossible to use.
STS-134 is online now  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 1:48 am
  #263  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bergen County NJ
Programs: AA EXP, B6 Mosaic 1, Amtrak Select, Marriott Plat , AMEX Plat (noted for club access reference)
Posts: 774
AMEX Millennial Here

I'm a millennial. I'm 24. Granted I'm not your normal millennial. Although I think and like old school styles. I run a low 7 figure company on my own (although I may hire a secretary soon) with an Associates Degree. (POS piece of paper IMO). American's maybe getting book smarter but they're certainly not getting CC points smarter.

Most people follow the crowd, I don't. Out of my close friends; only 4 have AMEX's and 3 of the 4 are non college educated self employed business owners like myself. 2 make 6 figures, 1 makes 7 figures. The other 10 or so close friends don't have an AMEX and they are all college educated. Heck some don't even have credit cards. I go out quite often and a common question people ask me after they ask about my business is how I travel for "Free" and stay in hotels for "Free" and I tell them about credit card points and say hey you should sign up for one and they all look at me like I'm crazy. Suit yourself more First Class availably for me. (Thank you Platinum 2 for 1 points).

(((funny story the 7 figure earner use to spend 7 figures with his debit card since "it was easy for me to keep track of everything". I was glad I was able to steer him in the right direction.))) He just went to Aruba 5 stars the whole nine yards for free.

Without a charge card (AMEX) since no one else offers one, (who accepts DINERS anymore) I could never spend the money I do on inventory. Think 20K a day sometimes. Without that charge card with yearly spendings over a million how else would I be able to charge that much. I really can't think of another way. Waiting for "payments to process" with MC and VISA is a PITA and the fact the second I hit submit payment with AMEX my line of credit (although that word is used loosely with a charge card) is extended. What sucks is I could have an additional 500,000 points a year with a "credit" card like the everyday preferred (which could cover not one but TWO black cards yearly fee) And for the record I haven't gotten a Centurion invite yet but hopefully soon. I'm forever loyal to AMEX, although give us Business Platinum holders the damn metal card lol or at least 50% if you make 30 transactions a month. (yeah I know about the 5K 1.5% but 95% of my charges are just under that)

And in terms of "being cool and hip" no one ever comments on my Platinum Card. I get a lot of comments on my SPG AMEX, like wow what's that? (something about Purple and millennials??? lol)

Oh and I forgot to mention for the record I started the company with zero help from anyone and my first ever Credit Card was the Clear Blue Amex (i forget what the name was) at 17 (yes my father cosigned it since I wasn't legally allowed to) which with the revolving credit (since i needed instant credit reflection for more inventory buying) since I had less than $1000 to start with. It really helped me start from the ground up.


And yeah 2% cash back (CITI) could pay my taxes but heck getting a $6,000 FC ticket and traveling the world for literally a fraction of the cost in points and ZERO dollars out of pocket is priceless. I'll take it everytime. Now if someone comes out with a 3% (other than USAA which I don't qualify for) then maybe a reconsideration will be done.


Point of the story AMEX isn't popular among millennials but for this millennial it is!

Last edited by theboss7593; Apr 24, 2017 at 2:20 am
theboss7593 is offline  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 3:55 am
  #264  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NB, Canada
Programs: Fairmont, Amex MR, Marriott
Posts: 2,531
Originally Posted by STS-134
There's a bigger issue here than charging an annual fee of X and giving a travel credit of X-250. This presumes that the reward structure of the card is such that you'd put travel spend on it in the first place. In the case of the CSR, most to all of my travel spend goes on that card, so I don't have a problem with this. But for the Plat? At most, I'd put a little (but probably not all) of my airline spend on it. 5x MR points vs. 3x UR points per dollar? That's a hard one. If I'm saving up for flying in the SQ suites, then I'd put it on the Plat, but if not, it would go on the CSR. So the problem with charging an annual fee of X and giving an easy to use travel credit of X-250? It transfers that spend away from my CSR, which results is a bigger opportunity cost to earn UR points the higher X is, even if I do spend that amount on travel every year.

And even worse, knowing Amex, they'd probably make it where the X-250 in travel spend either doesn't earn MR points or earns MR points at only 1 per dollar, unless you purchase through Amex Travel. Amex is great at giving you benefits that are difficult, annoying, or impossible to use.
I would bet 90% of Amex platinum cardholders and 90% of CSR cardholders would have no idea what you are talking about here.
drwilliams is offline  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 10:58 am
  #265  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 207
Originally Posted by theboss7593
Without a charge card (AMEX) since no one else offers one, (who accepts DINERS anymore) I could never spend the money I do on inventory. Think 20K a day sometimes.
Sadly this part is true. For the life of me I can't figure out how to get them (credit card companies) to increase my line.
gsxsilver is offline  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 11:20 am
  #266  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: LAX
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, AA EXP, Hilton Diamond, Wyndham Diamond, DL PM, Marriott Platinum, IHG Platinum
Posts: 1,305
Originally Posted by theboss7593
I'm a millennial. I'm 24. Granted I'm not your normal millennial. Although I think and like old school styles. I run a low 7 figure company on my own (although I may hire a secretary soon) with an Associates Degree. (POS piece of paper IMO). American's maybe getting book smarter but they're certainly not getting CC points smarter.

Most people follow the crowd, I don't. Out of my close friends; only 4 have AMEX's and 3 of the 4 are non college educated self employed business owners like myself. 2 make 6 figures, 1 makes 7 figures. The other 10 or so close friends don't have an AMEX and they are all college educated. Heck some don't even have credit cards. I go out quite often and a common question people ask me after they ask about my business is how I travel for "Free" and stay in hotels for "Free" and I tell them about credit card points and say hey you should sign up for one and they all look at me like I'm crazy. Suit yourself more First Class availably for me. (Thank you Platinum 2 for 1 points).

(((funny story the 7 figure earner use to spend 7 figures with his debit card since "it was easy for me to keep track of everything". I was glad I was able to steer him in the right direction.))) He just went to Aruba 5 stars the whole nine yards for free.

Without a charge card (AMEX) since no one else offers one, (who accepts DINERS anymore) I could never spend the money I do on inventory. Think 20K a day sometimes. Without that charge card with yearly spendings over a million how else would I be able to charge that much. I really can't think of another way. Waiting for "payments to process" with MC and VISA is a PITA and the fact the second I hit submit payment with AMEX my line of credit (although that word is used loosely with a charge card) is extended. What sucks is I could have an additional 500,000 points a year with a "credit" card like the everyday preferred (which could cover not one but TWO black cards yearly fee) And for the record I haven't gotten a Centurion invite yet but hopefully soon. I'm forever loyal to AMEX, although give us Business Platinum holders the damn metal card lol or at least 50% if you make 30 transactions a month. (yeah I know about the 5K 1.5% but 95% of my charges are just under that)

And in terms of "being cool and hip" no one ever comments on my Platinum Card. I get a lot of comments on my SPG AMEX, like wow what's that? (something about Purple and millennials??? lol)

Oh and I forgot to mention for the record I started the company with zero help from anyone and my first ever Credit Card was the Clear Blue Amex (i forget what the name was) at 17 (yes my father cosigned it since I wasn't legally allowed to) which with the revolving credit (since i needed instant credit reflection for more inventory buying) since I had less than $1000 to start with. It really helped me start from the ground up.


And yeah 2% cash back (CITI) could pay my taxes but heck getting a $6,000 FC ticket and traveling the world for literally a fraction of the cost in points and ZERO dollars out of pocket is priceless. I'll take it everytime. Now if someone comes out with a 3% (other than USAA which I don't qualify for) then maybe a reconsideration will be done.


Point of the story AMEX isn't popular among millennials but for this millennial it is!
With Business Platinum, don't you get 1.5x MR if your individual transaction is greater than $5,000?
jediwho is offline  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 11:47 am
  #267  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bergen County NJ
Programs: AA EXP, B6 Mosaic 1, Amtrak Select, Marriott Plat , AMEX Plat (noted for club access reference)
Posts: 774
Originally Posted by jediwho
With Business Platinum, don't you get 1.5x MR if your individual transaction is greater than $5,000?
yeah I mentioned it in my post that unfortunately 95% of my charges are under 5K so they don't qualify.
theboss7593 is offline  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 12:51 pm
  #268  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,805
do any other issuers allow the kind of spending that amex charge allows?
Kagehitokiri is offline  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 8:08 pm
  #269  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: LIT
Programs: Blinged Out
Posts: 712
Originally Posted by jediwho
With Business Platinum, don't you get 1.5x MR if your individual transaction is greater than $5,000?
Earlier this year, they had a targeted offer (2x points back over $5k individual charge)

Luckily for this millennial's seven-figure business, my charges are almost exclusively over 10k 😂

4% back for travel on spend that, at most gets 2.5% on other cards- Yeah, I'm sold.

For the record, no one ever notices my BPlat, but they love the CSR- guess it's the metal.
SeaHawg is offline  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 8:27 pm
  #270  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: LIT
Programs: Blinged Out
Posts: 712
Originally Posted by theboss7593
Most people follow the crowd, I don't. Out The other 10 or so close friends don't have an AMEX and they are all college educated. Heck some don't even have credit cards. I go out quite often and a common question people ask me after they ask about my business is how I travel for "Free" and stay in hotels for "Free" and I tell them about credit card points and say hey you should sign up for one and they all look at me like I'm crazy
For the life of me, I will never understand why so many "educated" people use debit cards.

I don't want anyone who may steal my wallet or use a skimmer to have direct access to my money/bank account.

One call to AMEX or Chase gets me a new card overnighted, and I don't have to deal with a bank refunding money back into my account.
SeaHawg is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.