Amex selling rewards points data to Amazon?

Old Nov 17, 15, 4:59 am
  #1  
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Amex selling rewards points data to Amazon?

I just got AUTOENROLLED into a deal that Amex have made with Amazon. So Amazon get to see your point balance seemingly whenever they like. Here is the problem I can see, Amazon are pretty bright people and by tracking the points totals monthly they will have another avenue to find out more about your financial spend. My issue is that I was AUTOENROLLED and my information was handed over without my say so. Does this bother anyone else?

here's Amex's position on it officially

"the program we have designed with Amazon is such that a Card Member does not need to take any action or provide specific authorization in order to see their point balance within the purchase path at Amazon. Once a Card Member loads their Membership Rewards eligible Card into his or her Amazon wallet, the feature is automatic and will make your point balance available, unless you choose to un-enroll. "
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Old Nov 17, 15, 12:09 pm
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Doesn't bother me. But I do remember having to authorize them allowing to use your MR on purchases. Same thing for citi TY points.

I opted out just so I didn't use them on accident. The MR to $ exchange rate was poor.

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Old Nov 17, 15, 8:23 pm
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What makes you think that Amazon is paying Amex for this data?
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Old Nov 18, 15, 1:29 am
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So you unenrolled right?

I understand not liking being autoenrolled into programs but if there is an easy out use it and let the company know you're not happy with the action. No real reason to spread potential disinformation (selling) to a group.
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Old Nov 18, 15, 6:33 am
  #5  
mia
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Previous discussion (2011) here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...ds-member.html
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Old Nov 23, 15, 4:12 am
  #6  
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Originally Posted by Steve M View Post
What makes you think that Amazon is paying Amex for this data?
because Amex wouldn't give it over unless there was something in it for them. Losing Costco was a big hit.

Originally Posted by dascc View Post
Doesn't bother me. But I do remember having to authorize them allowing to use your MR on purchases. Same thing for citi TY points.

I opted out just so I didn't use them on accident. The MR to $ exchange rate was poor.
I never would authorize this behaviour on any level. I like to keep companies ignorant of my financial situation. This is my last year with Amex after 27 years. They seem to be getting more desperate

Originally Posted by mia View Post

Yeah that's fine but BIG difference between handing over mr membership info and membership rewards points totals. If nothing else it shows Amex haven't thought it through. Amazon are pretty smart people and by taking weekly or monthly totals they can profile you a little easier and life becomes more complex after that

Originally Posted by Yoshi212 View Post
So you unenrolled right?

I understand not liking being autoenrolled into programs but if there is an easy out use it and let the company know you're not happy with the action. No real reason to spread potential disinformation (selling) to a group.

Nope completely DISAGREE we should be ASKED to enroll not just enrolled. If nothing else it's good customer relations. Amex seem to be more desperate to make up the loss of Costco by forming relationships with otheres. I suspect Amazon, being excellent at what they do, made autoenrollment a condition of a new relationship.

AND what point caused you to say I was actively spreading disinformation? the quote below is directly from American Express executive office.

here's Amex's position on it officially

"the program we have designed with Amazon is such that a Card Member does not need to take any action or provide specific authorization in order to see their point balance within the purchase path at Amazon. Once a Card Member loads their Membership Rewards eligible Card into his or her Amazon wallet, the feature is automatic and will make your point balance available, unless you choose to un-enroll. "

Last edited by mia; Nov 23, 15 at 4:32 am Reason: Consolidate consecutive replies, removed quoted image.
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Old Nov 23, 15, 4:34 am
  #7  
mia
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Originally Posted by djames View Post
... Losing Costco was a big hit.
How is this relevant? The American Express Membership Rewards integration dates from at least 2011. Amazon needs to verify that you have a sufficient points balance to redeem, and have been able to do so since the outset. What's "in it" for American Express is that it is an easy way for members to redeem points at a poor rate.

The notion that American Express is desperate because they lost one contract isn't convincing. They have long been good at monetizing information, and this is just an example where we can see it. Be assured that the other rewards card issuers do the same. Both Chase and Citi have similar arrangements with Amazon.

For what's worth, my Amazon account presents the opportunity to opt IN to this feature:

To use points, your Card account must be enrolled in the Membership Rewards® program and be active and in good standing. Your Membership Rewards program account will be linked to your Amazon.com account. Information about your program account may be provided by American Express to Amazon. American Express will debit the number of points you elect to redeem for a purchase from your program account. Your program account points balance may not reflect redemptions for pending purchase transactions until the purchase has been shipped.

Membership Rewards terms and conditions apply and are available at www.membershiprewards.com/terms. The value of Membership Rewards points varies across Membership Rewards program redemption options. To learn more, visit www.membershiprewards.com/pointsinfo.

Amazon Shop with Points and Amazon.com's terms and conditions apply.
Submit
No, thanks

Last edited by mia; Nov 23, 15 at 4:50 am
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Old Nov 23, 15, 4:51 am
  #8  
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Originally Posted by mia View Post
How is this relevant? The American Express Membership Rewards integration dates from at least 2011. Amazon needs to verify that you have a sufficient points balance to redeem, and have been able to do so since the outset. The notion that American Express is desperate because they lost one contract isn't convincing. They have long been good at monetizing information, and this is just an example where we can see it. Be assured that the other rewards cards issuers do the same.

For what's worth, my Amazon account presents the opportunity to opt IN to this feature:

Nope it's new the itegration is old but the sharing of POINTS information is new. It is relevant for two reasons:

1 the lost of costco in 2016 causes 1 in 10 Amex cards to be gone POSSIBLY a big hit on top of the 9% hit they took at the time. So this action smacks of desperation and AUTOENROLL is just another example of a worsening customer relations at Amex. We're out of there in 2016

2 Asking Amex if there are enough points to redeem ( ACK or NAK ) is fine but to actually give over the totals is another thing entirely. It can be used to profile in very interesting ways and Amazon ( I like them alot) will take full advantage of it.

A question for you, did the other issurers you mention ASK or autoenroll?
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Old Nov 23, 15, 6:35 am
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Originally Posted by djames View Post
Nope it's new the itegration is old but the sharing of POINTS information is new. It is relevant for two reasons:

1 the lost of costco in 2016 causes 1 in 10 Amex cards to be gone POSSIBLY a big hit on top of the 9% hit they took at the time. So this action smacks of desperation and AUTOENROLL is just another example of a worsening customer relations at Amex. We're out of there in 2016

2 Asking Amex if there are enough points to redeem ( ACK or NAK ) is fine but to actually give over the totals is another thing entirely. It can be used to profile in very interesting ways and Amazon ( I like them alot) will take full advantage of it.

A question for you, did the other issurers you mention ASK or autoenroll?
The sharing of points information was available way before there was an inkling that Costco was dumping Amex.
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Old Nov 23, 15, 6:59 am
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Originally Posted by lazard View Post
The sharing of points information was available way before there was an inkling that Costco was dumping Amex.
you sure the AUTOENROLL policy post dated Costco showing them the door? BUT

Amex needs a response to the negative effect of 1 in 10 cards disappearing so THIS seems to be the great plan. I was first made aware of it by Amazon in an email when I used the card to buy something, I buy things on Amazon every week so I consider I was autoenrolled POST Costco dump as I have no evidence to the contrary.

ALL that said I would welcome any correction as to when this autoenroll went into effect.
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Old Nov 23, 15, 7:24 am
  #11  
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Originally Posted by djames View Post
...other issurers you mention ASK or autoenroll?
There are two American Express cards linked to my Amazon account. One displays my Membership Rewards balance, the other does not and has not been auto-enrolled. Instead it offers me the option to link, and displays the terms quoted in my previous reply. I do recall linking one of my cards, a few years ago, for the specific purpose of seeing what the Membership Rewards redemption rate is. I might be able to puzzle out when I did that, but it seems evident that not ALL American Express cards are auto-enrolled, even if one of yours was.

Likewise, I originally linked my Citi ThankYou points account to my Amazon account to see the redemption rate, then de-linked it. I don't remember much about the process.

I do not think I have ever linked a Chase Ultimate Rewards card to my Amazon account, and there is not one listed now.
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Old Nov 23, 15, 7:55 am
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I was searching for more info on how I got autoenrolled and found this thread. I've used my AmEx Platinum on Amazon in the past, but hadn't in probably a month. Went to make a purchase yesterday with it and was asked to re-enter my card #. Upon doing so, I was informed I could pay with points and was tod what my points balance was. Not only that, my default payment method was now paying with points! I was shocked and rather disappointed that AmEx was now sharing this data with Amazon without my permission.

The unenroll process took me a while to figure out. It was buried and not nearly as simple as it should be.

While I doubt losing Costco prompted this change, I'm very disappointed that AmEx is willing to let Amazon data mine my spending habits by giving them access to my points value without my permission.
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Old Nov 23, 15, 8:24 am
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NYC cabs have it too. That actually annoys me more because it's displayed on a screen for anyone to see. Friends, family, dates who don't need to know my points balances.

I do often use my Discover IT card cash back when making amazon purchases.
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Old Nov 23, 15, 2:42 pm
  #14  
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Originally Posted by mia View Post
There are two American Express cards linked to my Amazon account. One displays my Membership Rewards balance, the other does not and has not been auto-enrolled. Instead it offers me the option to link, and displays the terms quoted in my previous reply. I do recall linking one of my cards, a few years ago, for the specific purpose of seeing what the Membership Rewards redemption rate is. I might be able to puzzle out when I did that, but it seems evident that not ALL American Express cards are auto-enrolled, even if one of yours was.

Likewise, I originally linked my Citi ThankYou points account to my Amazon account to see the redemption rate, then de-linked it. I don't remember much about the process.

I do not think I have ever linked a Chase Ultimate Rewards card to my Amazon account, and there is not one listed now.
thank you I have spent a few years designing transactional systems ( albeit in the financial arena for forex) and have some skills when it comes to data analysis and visualization. This is BAD really BAD in my opinion and AMEX should have asked for OVERT permission before agreeing to this. Amazon are responsible people, again in my experience, BUT many a slip twix cup and lip
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Old Nov 23, 15, 2:46 pm
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Originally Posted by dijid View Post
I was searching for more info on how I got autoenrolled and found this thread. I've used my AmEx Platinum on Amazon in the past, but hadn't in probably a month. Went to make a purchase yesterday with it and was asked to re-enter my card #. Upon doing so, I was informed I could pay with points and was tod what my points balance was. Not only that, my default payment method was now paying with points! I was shocked and rather disappointed that AmEx was now sharing this data with Amazon without my permission.

The unenroll process took me a while to figure out. It was buried and not nearly as simple as it should be.

While I doubt losing Costco prompted this change, I'm very disappointed that AmEx is willing to let Amazon data mine my spending habits by giving them access to my points value without my permission.
well done you made the wise choice, this is the thin end of the wedge and I have no doubt Amazon ( pretty good people in my experience) pushed for it so AMEX could desperately make up the 10% card loss from Costco showing them the door of which, I would guess, a significant percentage of cards were business which makes the total loss much more significant.
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