baccarat_king

Also appearing for NL. Enrollments, main Centurion and supplemental seem to be working (with email confirmation).

KVU

I sent various letters of complaint to the UK Country Manager, after major fails by the Centurion product. Not only did I never receive a direct reply, but the reply received from the Executive Relations Department was full of errors and pertinent points were ignored.
Further to the difficult situation, I was told I would not be communicated with further and that my messages would only be read and filed from that point forward.

I've shown nothing but brand loyalty for close to two decades - they rewarded me by leaving notes on my account profile that were slanderous, demeaning and clearly a restriction on service was implemented when I was being told all was fine with all aspects of my account when I questioned various signs in service degradation.

The company showed clear written evidence that my past complaints had merit and they even agreed to deal with it by way of compensation and redress, however delivery of this was much harder and years later I was told I had left it unreported for a long period.
Waiting for a redress patiently apparently is rewarded by it being removed for you not chasing it up more than once or twice a month.
Further issues compounded the initial bad taste and instead of dealing with things fairly, they closed my account and blamed me for misconduct and misuse of the card.

When I presented the company with a transcript of the conversation (their own internal notes clearly showed no misconduct ever took place as notes appear accordingly) they would not correctly address the issue as firstly they said the “said” conversations never took place and then when I presented the information obtained through a Subject Access Data Request, they said a new full and thorough investigation would occur on the already full and thorough investigation that had completed.
This new investigation took less than four business days to complete when every other investigation has taken between four weeks and two years.

The issues have been clearly presented to the UK Country Manager – he has never shown me any human or member kindness by choosing to reply, even though I have highlighted to him many sensitive issues surrounding the case.

Centurion is a club that likes you when you apparently behave and kicks you out when you disagree with anything they do.

I have a manager writing a note on my account, when I was apparently told everything was fine and there were no service or marketing restrictions, asking the question if anyone has a way to get rid of me and if they have template letters one could use. This was while this individual was apparently reviewing a complaint where I didn’t receive a service because apparently it was oversubscribed, but in fact a further note was left on my file to say I should not be invited to any event and that was the truth which they failed to ever share. So a complaint was established on their end to create a wild goose chase in order to make me feel happy and make things appear as if they were fine – when I discovered this, further notes were left to say I had discovered their practice of excluding me and they should invite me to some requested events as I was a fee paying member otherwise there could be problems from this. For years I had requested attendance to events and on most I had missed entry because I was apparently unlucky in my attempt. To see such notes from senior management is a disgrace.

To see a Country Manager do nothing when these points were highlighted is a further disgrace.

Companies need to learn that the company is there because of its members – why they believe they can treat people this way is still something that really troubles me today.

I loved my membership and thoroughly enjoyed the process of owning an American Express card - its hard to explain to those who just carry the card for something other than function as they will no doubt critique my comment down to "get over it - its just a card."

To me, it was something I worked hard to attain and used wisely. I built some fantastic relationships at the service level (people who dealt with calls and provided the first level of contact). Somehow I went wrong when I raised a dispute and it never got properly managed and then I had to have a battle with their handling of that along with associated issues.

I have spoken to a few members now and discovered that complaints in the UK rarely get managed correctly if escalated beyond first level support - raising something to management level (something that happened to me because they made an error that resulted in a loss of £1800 to me in travel related services) is a definite trouble zone. Asking for support from management on dealing with another member of staff, and their actions (or lack of it) is another definite trouble zone.

The truly sad part here is that one of their staff members (this department only has a couple of people due to the way it operates and its level of importance at American Express) provided me advice on a recorded line that American Express later tried to cover up and say didn't exist until I requested formal documentation on my account. Then a Senior Manager, within this department, whom I went to for adjudication as a last resort, said to me on a call that if in fact this call did take place then she would review the situation again as the decision of cancellation was all based on a particular flow of facts. This information was requested by the Senior Manager (confirmation of request appear on my internal account notes) but it was never presented to the Senior manager as it was reportedly said to not exist or have taken place - but I seemed to have obtained the details myself quite easily. I was later prevented from communicating with this manager again, even though she was interested to learn of the issue, and was in fact the Senior Vice President of the department that ultimately took the decision to cancel my products. Shocking that staff would withhold information from their own superiors to make it appear as if a decision to cancel was based on good due diligence when in fact it was not.

The above is just a snapshot of what I discovered about them and their practice on my account.

I'm taking the case to court because of the clear evidence they provided my through their own documented evidence on my account over the last five years.

I still feel the brand has a lot to offer and is really good at bringing a product range together - just wish I could have been treated fairly. To have my product taken from me, is to this day, was very frustrating but to force me to remove Centurion Ti supplementary cards from my parents that have enjoyed a product I gave them was hard because of the way it all happened and for the reason that I have never had to take something back from them in this way. I guess that's the fight I must have with a brand that believes fairness is not appropriate for a card member who has never openly spoken about his difficulties until now.

LondonElite

With great respect, particularly as you've taken the time and made the effort to describe your situation in such detail, it's hard to understand what the issue is without details, starting at the beginning with what actually went wrong. The difficulty is formulating a view in the abstract.

KVU

1) Got upgraded from Platinum to Centurion in late 2010.
2) Credit didn't correctly merge my old account history with the new card resulting in me being seen as a new customer (what I was told) - this meant my spend history practically went to £1000 and I had to build it back up again.
3) Was promised support in account spend as this CLEARLY was their error and I was a loyal card member that they wanted to support.
4) Six months of no support with over 10 account freezes (because credit staff thought I was a new card member with no spend history trying to spend Outside normal spending patterns). They wouldn't read Senior Vice President and Credit Manager notes supporting spend due to issues to £XX level as a minimum (based on highest platinum spend)
5) Executive Relations investigated and, after a full investigation lasting around one month, upheld every aspect of my complaint including missing out on some travel offers (Orient Express Train and Hotel) that I couldn't purchase because of account blocks. Even the Manager of the Travel department couldn't get this dealt with as the blocks by credit wouldn't be lifted no matter what the conversation.
6) Finally things were promised as a proper way to move forward, including managing my account spend pattern with the senior manager originally managing the account and staff were appropriately informed of the status of my account.
7) Problems continued again and my complaint grew further by me using a Senior Manager within the Travel department to diarise all my issues on a real time, point by point basis over a period spanning two years.
8) Most of the promises were never delivered and various excuses were then given to go back on said promises and issues - even though written letters, emails and case notes were present.
9) I stopped using travel and concierge at American Express (advice given by said Senior Manager on an email) as advice was drop in spend with promote account review and proper investigation. This never really occurred and I lost another year in waiting and believing the Senior Manager could actually achieve what he said. In fact more issues were caused because more people were involved that actually didn't make any positive difference. I used external travel companies for booking or reserving travel but for a period I failed to notice whilst I managing some important personal and business issues that my UK assistant was only making payments for the balance due after refunds and payments were applied. On some months, this meant refunds from large travel changes resulted in a low payment towards the card. The mistake was explained and accepted as I had a very long relationship with the brand and payment was made in full to clear the balance without any increase to my debt (as stated by Experian and Equifax credit file reports)
10) Senior Manager I had dealt with for nearly 2.5years left the company without resolving any of the open issues - telling staff all was resolved but sending me emails and making telephone calls (I have recording of transcripts) that say he had either found a solution for all my problems or was in the end stages of finding an acceptable solution.
11) I presented my evidence to American Express managers and I was categorised as a serial trouble maker and complainer. Notes on file state this and they were looking at ways of getting me out of American Express.
12) I was still using an outside travel firm to book travel as my issues with American Express were not resolved. My confidence in the brand was low due to what I was feeling and also for the fact that my account was being blocked randomly by credit and when this happens, all features of the card are virtually unusable. For this reason, booking travel on the card was impossible during this period. I did however use the Centurion card to book travel externally and then if the card was blocked, used another card to make any changes. Due to past issues where I felt issues would present themselves, I had a long call on a recorded line about travel refunds for minor changes and price matches - a large brand provides price matches for bookings if found cheaper elsewhere. I was categorically told not to worry about travel refunds as long as I now didn't use refunds to partially or fully pay my account balance each month. Totally acceptable by me!!!
13) Less than six months later, my account is terminated due to me using an outside travel firm and making travel changes that resulted in around 15 charge refunds over a period of 30 days. Around 90 percent of the refunds were price matches processed by the travel company against competitors and one was a large refunds processed by American Express because they misspelt a name on a multi-sector flight booking in business class. It was the first travel I had booked using the Centurion Travel Service in nearly 1 year and this was not correctly ticketed. The ticket was booked less than 24hrs before travel and I never once got angry at the staff, the situation or the difficulties their mistake created. I was told by staff that I had been so kind and fair during the entire process. The new ticket purchase resulted in a full refund of the old and a new purchase of a higher fare - the difference in cost was paid for by American Express and accepted as their error.
14) When my card account was cancelled, I was told that I should not have refunded the above ticket. When I asked what I should have done, I was advised only that I should not have done it as I was told not to process any refunds. So I have booked near 500 flights in 3 years with the company alone and probably cancelled less than 5 flights in that time - I was being told that I could no longer cancel any bookings going forward and that I had broken a rule.

Does anyone else in Centurion have this rule on their card?

15) My credit card debt, totally unrelated, was sold to a legal firm when I was told it wouldn't be whilst my complaint was looked at. Notes again on my file showing that they had made an error, but were trying to cover it by hiding it and saying to staff not to discuss this with me. I also received letters threatening me about ruining my credit file if I didn't clear the full balance even though I had never missed a single payment inside or outside American Express in my life.
16) All documentation I have received from their appointed collection service lawyers and American Express state that my travel refunds broke card member rules, but I clearly followed their advice on a recorded line. I even promised to show them documentation of price matching on certain hotel reservations to show that I was not even refunding - merely matching a small number of hotel prices using my preferred travel company.

The whole situation is an absolute joke and a complete nightmare as I have lost an entire American Express relationship that my personal and business situation was very dependant on.

oh 17) I was told my card was never authorised for business or commercial use even though I have letters stating it was and them asking to send in documents to allow the commercial under writing to continue year on year.

A catalogue of errors and I have only mentioned a brief on my horror.


(I have typed this without proof reading it initially so it is correct to the best of my knowledge and I will try to make grammar edits when I get a moment)

YClass

Reading these long posts, I can't help but feel there was something else behind it all. That being said, going but what is written it sounds like a fairly unbelievable scenario and I understand frustration. Its all a bit absurd. Another poster also had similarly ridiculous encounters IIRC.

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones - I've never had any issues with my Cent. While I've been annoyed by some benefits going, new ones are also welcome. I travel a lot (both business and leisure) and have a significantly better experience because of the card. I like the random Amex gifts, regular upgrades and other such offers. My account manager is relatively efficient and a nice person. I know what to expect from CTS/concierge, where they excel and what their limitations are. I would absolutely recommend the card to people in a similar position to me. That doesn't mean I don't wish it had certain benefits - *A Gold, GHA Black, and SPG Plat

KVU

I had an AMAZING relationship at one point. It all went wrong when their mistake escalated out of control. At the first point of error they realised that there were various failures and they admitted to compensating for it. In relation to my monthly spend, it was nothing. They never delivered!! Then they promised for it not to happen again and for the past promise to be delivered - that never happened!! Then I was advised by their own staff to follow through on various scenarios (spend reduction within the business, raise a complaint with senior leadership etc.) and that caused me more problems. Finally, they got rid of me and didn't do it in the proper way or manage the past situation issues correctly.

I truly, like yourself, loved my card. I really do miss it because it was something I worked really hard for and felt I was dealt an unjust blow by having it taken so poorly. I used my card for everything and even was told to cancel products elsewhere during a FR process to have my spend enabled - which I did. All of that further makes the whole situation worse because of how they have dealt with me.

The whole situation has escalated beyond a reasonable point and I feel very sad at how a corporation that prides itself in customer service can not only deliver a poor experience, but document it in my file and think of strategies and policies to reduce my experience (in some cases removing my experience entirely) and also to remove me as a card member because of valid comments.

Treating customers fairly and with some respect should be a basic requirement.

Having Senior Leadership following through on promises and communication attempts should be fairly attainable - not impossible.

I could give a whole list of failures, I probably will at some point after further legal advice, on things I experienced that may resonate amongst other card members and therefore make you think about if you went through a similar experience and, if so, did I suffer at the same policy/procedure/unfair approach.

I have tried to mediate with the company a few times in recent months, but they are dead set on their approach and have no intention to any fair arbitration process. Even during my attempted arbitration, I have obtained notes that show they were arbitrating with me for process only. They had no intention of listening or adjusting their opinion or approach to the situation as the notes clearly stated that they were going to continue with the gung-ho approach as that is what had been decided. It was almost like they were talking to me to just further irritate or distress me.

Very sad treatment from a premium provider of such important services - like insurance and finance.

I am a great believer in fairness and kindness. I have a corporate background and a great deal of knowledge in their product range, services and delivery - knowing this, gives me a lot of insight into how unfairly their treatment of my account was and how poor the customer relations handling of my complaint was.

I domt ever believe a legal approach is the best way forward, but when a company behaves so poorly and effectively costs you in various ways through unfair practice - you have to fight.

pmcg

Looks like the card will be binned come renewal date.

My most recent contact with the Concierge Service resulted in me receiving an email quoting "we will respond within 24 hours".
At +24hours no reply so I rang, to be told it should have said "72 hours", . hardly a "Concierge Service".

Of course they couldn't help with tickets to the event so I booked myself, ended up with worse seats than were available the previous day at a higher price and £30 of international call charges.
Did Amex bother, of course not, not interested in the slightest.

Hard to justify the fee with such rubbish customer service let alone the "benefits".

Deckard

I'll bite. Where do CTS excel? At least my current RM will book me ex-Eu - former ones refused but hand on heart I don't think I can think of a single instance where CTS excel for me?

SLOhCar

That is really awful what they did to you but given that it is Amex, I'm not surprised. I recently got a financial review request and their reasoning is it was triggered because of a change in my spending habits. However, the real reason is because they want to see my financial information which is none of their business. I have a few days to comply but I've already decided that I'm just going to cancel the card. I currently have a US Centurion.

mia

Welcome to Flyertalk. If you want to write about your Financial Review experience, please use this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...iscussion.html

YClass

My RM was great in using BA GUF2 voucher and provides me quick quotes on whatever I need. They've proactively applied the free airport transfers without me asking etc. One e-mail and passengers are in and flight is issued. Also I have recently had quotes on flights which were cheaper than anything I could find online - some random fare bucket/offer. To be fair it doesn't happen often, but it did, so I'm pleased. Also had the same for hotels. I like to mix fare buckets and some directions in first/business/coach, and this is where it works well. I've also had them reprice hotel stays to check cheapest options when another offer comes up. Generally a decent experience. Sometimes online is a lot cheaper and that's fine too - not unexpected. Again, may be I am lucky, maybe I'm more tolerant, but I know what to use and when and between Amex, TenUK and my own booking/research I get what I am looking for most often. I only wish they could hold flights longer than 24 hrs and that it wasnt such a long process to get through on the phone with card details etc.

SLOhCar

Thanks Mia

KVU

I had two great RM's in the UK - one a face-to-face manager (one of the first centurion customers to have one in the UK back in 2011 as a trial) and then a fantastic Pod based manager in Brighton. I changed from the face-to-face to a pod purely because of my needs.
What I discovered from American Express records is that I was on a marketing black list that not even staff, managers, senior managers and executives knew about.
This effectively meant that I had to discover an offer was available in the market place, ask about it, have it sent to me manually by my RM and then ask them to check why I didn't get it? Their reply would always be "check Royal Mail hasn't lost it" or "let us reset marketing" for you."
It was only after four years of no offers without telling them I knew an offer was in the market place that I conducted a subject access review on my account and discovered the horrors of their practice.
They had effectively black listed me from the day I because a Centurion client. The very day I joined!!!! My monthly spend in year one and two was in excess of GBP50k monthly as an average, my highest spend had hit around £80k in a month and I was apparently a marketing blacklist.
What is astounding here is that they were happy to let me pay an annual fee and be invited to the Centurion programme, but I was not permitted access to any of the marketing or benefits - even my web access to marketing was blocked and it took two years for them to fix this after me hounding them politely.
I stuck by the brand because I believe a loyal customer truly sticks by a brand they believe in and tries to work for the benefit of all members.
I offered to give my time to assist a panel to be established where card members like myself could provide valuable feedback on broken areas and areas of improvement just because I really was wanting a positive change.
Finally when things went so wrong, I asked an a contact to establish contact with an American Express Senior Executive (board level) in New York, USA. That Executive asked a UK Senior Vice President to contact me and I have to say she was pleasant to speak to, but sadly, somehow, the powers that destroyed my relationship with American Express buried the situation she was trying to investigate and created a scenario that prevented us from communicating again. What chance do I have of arbitration and fair outcomes if the people who really want to help are being swayed or prevented from talking to me.
Finally, the UK Country Manager didn't even feel it was worth his while to talk to me or reply to a single email when I passionately wrote to him in order to present my case and situation.

Mostly, I am disturbed by their behaviour because of a personal issue that they have left me having to deal with. When I tried to book a Centurion Travel offer in 2011 for the Orient Express Company, their mistakes prevented me from utilising the benefit. They admitted, along with other failures already mentioned, full liability and said my face-to-face RM would take care of the issue. They tried originally to get the offer extended with The Orient Express Company, but as this was an American Express error, the company declined and American Express said it would manage this directly with me – a direct compensation from them. My grandfather and my girlfriend were the people I was taking on this trip. My grandfather was a very prudent as he was from a time where he had seen great hardship and to him a trip like this was very lavish. I wanted to spoil him and therefore told him I had secured an amazing offer. He and I spoke about this and after much talking, he agreed to travel with us. When I told him the trip was slightly delayed because the offer fell through, he was fine, however I was quick to reassure him that the trip would occur regardless of the American Express management of it. A big mistake of mine to mention that last sentence because he interpreted that as me making a promise to take him no matter what the cost – he felt I was irresponsible with my actions if I were just to make that decision and he made me promise him to wait for American Express to resolve it or what until another offer came through. I gave him my word! I waited two years for them to deal with it and then he suffered a debilitating stroke and heart attack which has left him unable to travel anymore. My world fell apart and I shared this with American Express when they were talking to me and I also shared this with the UK Country Manager when American Express were no longer communicating with me properly. No one still replied or properly address my situation – instead they cancelled my Centurion card and passed my credit card account to a UK Law firm.

I ask myself everyday why I didn’t do things differently and why I was treated so poorly by a brand who I relied on so heavily – to the point where they asked me to cancel other financial instruments in order to show some further clarity on my UK credit profile.

I respectfully ask each and every member to be mindful of how you rely on a brand as it clearly appears their perspective on you is what matters most at the end of the day - not tenure, loyalty or how much you open yourself up to them and their financial investigations when they ask you to do so in order to remain a member.

My case against them will be on different levels and I am saddened to have to even pursue this route – a proper opportunity to talk to a senior level human being at the company should have been made possible.

baccarat_king

What confuses me, is that you get a statement which is payable every month. Setting aside the cancellation; you would still be making your monthly payment for the balance due.

So, what would there be to be "passed" to a UK Law Firm.

I way I see it :

I owe AMEX €32.000 on my June Statement closing on the 2nd of July. I pay AMEX the €32.000 I owe them prior to statement closing. Statement closes, and generates a balance due for my next statement. In the midst of this, AMEX cancels my account. If I just pay the amounts due for the statements before the next statement period... how can there be any issue to pass on for collections?

Surely, in the UK you have proof of the electronic payments. And if a law firm is "hounding" you for money you can easily show you owe zero balance. There must be some form of consumer protections in the UK where as a law firm cannot try to collect on an account that has been paid in full (turned over from AMEX-UK or otherwise).

What am I missing here?

KVU

I had a Centurion Charge Card and a British Airways Premium Plus Credit Card. It is the credit card I speak of re the cancellation and immediate repayment request. They told me this wouldn't happen and then they did it anyway, saying they didn't say anything. However again they left notes on my account to say they had said they wouldn't cancel my card and said they had made a mistake in the situation but to not admit it to me and carry on as is.