Apr 22, 2015, 10:57 am
Last edit by: mia
Effective June 2017 the USA Business Platinum airfare Pay-with-Points refund was reduced to 35%. This brings the net value to $0.0153 per point, essentially the same as Chase Sapphire Reserve's Pay-with-Points redemption rate.
USA Business Centurion cardholders will continue to receive a 50% refund. The Centurion version is also broader than the Platinum benefit:
Centurion: beginning October 6, 2016 you will get 50% Membership Rewards® points back when you use the Pay with Points feature for all or part of a flight on any airline. The maximum rebate per calendar year for Centurion members is (_______?)
Platinum: Business Platinum Card Members will receive 5 extra points for every 10 points they redeem for either a First or Business class flight on any airline, or for flights with their selected qualifying airline using Membership Rewards Pay with Points with American Express Travel (35% Airline Bonus). The maximum rebate per calendar year for Business Platinum Card Members is 1,000,000 points.
FAQ
Q1. How does the process work?
A1. Here is an example, buying a $1,000.00 ticket:
Q2. Must the Business Centurion or Platinum card be used to purchase the ticket?
A2. When the benefit was refreshed in October 2016 you could pay with any card linked to the same Membership Rewards account, but it appears this changed in April 2017.
Q3. Will I earn Membership Rewards points on the purchase price?
A3. You will not earn base points, but you may earn bonus points if you pay with a card that awards a bonus for airline ticket purchases, such as Business Platinum, Personal Platinum, Business Rewards Gold, Premier Rewards Gold.
Q4. What happens if I cancel the ticket?
A4. There are mixed reports, but in most examples the cost of the ticket is refunded (a second time) to the card account. In one example American Express refunded the remainder of the points instead. If you prefer the points refunded rather than a cash credit, phone into AMEX and they will restore the points and remove the credit.
Q5. Can this benefit be combined with the International Airline Program companion ticket?
A5. One poster was told no, but another was able to do so.
USA Business Centurion cardholders will continue to receive a 50% refund. The Centurion version is also broader than the Platinum benefit:
Centurion: beginning October 6, 2016 you will get 50% Membership Rewards® points back when you use the Pay with Points feature for all or part of a flight on any airline. The maximum rebate per calendar year for Centurion members is (_______?)
Platinum: Business Platinum Card Members will receive 5 extra points for every 10 points they redeem for either a First or Business class flight on any airline, or for flights with their selected qualifying airline using Membership Rewards Pay with Points with American Express Travel (35% Airline Bonus). The maximum rebate per calendar year for Business Platinum Card Members is 1,000,000 points.
FAQ
Q1. How does the process work?
A1. Here is an example, buying a $1,000.00 ticket:
- $1,000 charged to American Express card [Day 1]
- 100,000 Membership Rewards points redeemed [Day 1]
- $1,000 credited to American Express card [Day 2]
- _35,000 Membership Rewards points returned [~a month later]
- Net: $1,000 ticket for 65,000 points = $0.0154/point
Q2. Must the Business Centurion or Platinum card be used to purchase the ticket?
A2. When the benefit was refreshed in October 2016 you could pay with any card linked to the same Membership Rewards account, but it appears this changed in April 2017.
Q3. Will I earn Membership Rewards points on the purchase price?
A3. You will not earn base points, but you may earn bonus points if you pay with a card that awards a bonus for airline ticket purchases, such as Business Platinum, Personal Platinum, Business Rewards Gold, Premier Rewards Gold.
Q4. What happens if I cancel the ticket?
A4. There are mixed reports, but in most examples the cost of the ticket is refunded (a second time) to the card account. In one example American Express refunded the remainder of the points instead. If you prefer the points refunded rather than a cash credit, phone into AMEX and they will restore the points and remove the credit.
Q5. Can this benefit be combined with the International Airline Program companion ticket?
A5. One poster was told no, but another was able to do so.
Pay-with-Points flights. BUSINESS Centurion 50% refund, Plat 35%, Gold 25% (2015-23)
Mar 14, 2017, 1:42 pm
#361
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,954
I read this to mean that there will be a $25,000 transaction each month, generating 37,500 points (in addition to points from other spending), so there needn't be an end point.
Mar 14, 2017, 2:19 pm
#362
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 205
Can you all help/verify my math?
I have a single $25,000/month business expense I can pay through Plastiq.
Plastiq highest fee of 2.5% would cost me $625.
If I understand right, since the charge is over $5,000 I will earn 50% bonus points on that charge. So $25,000 x 1.5 = 37,500 points earned.
So then I book a ticket at $375 and redeem 37,500 points to pay the bill.
In exchange I get 50% points back, or 18,750, worth $187.50 in airline redemptions.
So the total value back is $375 + $187.50 = $562.50, which is obviously less than $625 so not worth it.
I keep thinking something is wrong with my math, that I should be able to save money but math doesn't lie. Am I doing something wrong? Will it never make sense to buy points with Plastiq in this scenario?
I have a single $25,000/month business expense I can pay through Plastiq.
Plastiq highest fee of 2.5% would cost me $625.
If I understand right, since the charge is over $5,000 I will earn 50% bonus points on that charge. So $25,000 x 1.5 = 37,500 points earned.
So then I book a ticket at $375 and redeem 37,500 points to pay the bill.
In exchange I get 50% points back, or 18,750, worth $187.50 in airline redemptions.
So the total value back is $375 + $187.50 = $562.50, which is obviously less than $625 so not worth it.
I keep thinking something is wrong with my math, that I should be able to save money but math doesn't lie. Am I doing something wrong? Will it never make sense to buy points with Plastiq in this scenario?
Mar 26, 2017, 6:43 pm
#363
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PHX
Posts: 4,787
Ok, I'm looking at a domestic first class ticket. On aa.com, the price is $485. Using pay with points, I get an "instant savings" price on Amex Travel of just under 44,000 points.
If I pay with points, I get 22,000 rebated. If I wait until the 30th when business plat goes to 5x (assuming the price doesn't change), I will initially get 5x on the purchase price of the ticket ($485) or 2425 points, but then when the $485 is rebated, I may only have a 1x offset of 485 points, netting an extra 1940 points.
So, total cost if it goes right, will be 20,060 Amex, and I will earn 2.0 EQM (due to business class of service), and redeemable miles and EQD based on the $485 ticket price -- basically about 3100 redeemable miles and about 440 EQD.
Unless I have some of the basics wrong here (very possible), this is an off the charts boondoggle. Can't be sustainable.
If I pay with points, I get 22,000 rebated. If I wait until the 30th when business plat goes to 5x (assuming the price doesn't change), I will initially get 5x on the purchase price of the ticket ($485) or 2425 points, but then when the $485 is rebated, I may only have a 1x offset of 485 points, netting an extra 1940 points.
So, total cost if it goes right, will be 20,060 Amex, and I will earn 2.0 EQM (due to business class of service), and redeemable miles and EQD based on the $485 ticket price -- basically about 3100 redeemable miles and about 440 EQD.
Unless I have some of the basics wrong here (very possible), this is an off the charts boondoggle. Can't be sustainable.
Mar 26, 2017, 7:27 pm
#364
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,954
5X means one base point plus four bonus points. The base point will never be awarded, because the purchase will be offset by a credit. There is anecdotal evidence that you will receive the four bonus points, but those examples involve paying with a different card. Because the bonus points are awarded separately I expect it will be easy to suppress if they don't intend to award them on refunded transactions - but could take a long while.
Mar 27, 2017, 9:03 pm
#365
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco & London
Programs: UA1k, Oneworld Sapphire, Hyatt Globalist, IHG DiamondAmb, Hilton Diamond, Marriott LTP,
Posts: 1,785
Looking at 2x HA F seats from Tahiti to Bay Area one way via Hawaii stopover
Looking for best value here, cash price is $1700 each.... Amex offer 50% points back. Problem is I do not have all the points.
I have close to 200K at end of month, which is enough for redemption total (after half back) but not for whole total... over 300k is needed!
Is there any way around this? Wil Amex allow exception?
Can you transfer from spouses MR account?
Looking for best value here, cash price is $1700 each.... Amex offer 50% points back. Problem is I do not have all the points.
I have close to 200K at end of month, which is enough for redemption total (after half back) but not for whole total... over 300k is needed!
Is there any way around this? Wil Amex allow exception?
Can you transfer from spouses MR account?
Mar 27, 2017, 11:03 pm
#366
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, MLife Gold, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Caesars Diamond, Amex Plat
Posts: 5,939
If you can take the risk, you could get one then get second after your rebate hits. And read upthread re using split payment between points and cash.
Mar 28, 2017, 8:33 am
#367
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PHX
Posts: 4,787
Yeah, best choice would be redeem 170,000 for one ticket leaving 30k. When you get the 85,000 rebate, you have 115,000. Redeem for a second ticket using 115,000 points plus $550. You get 57,500 back to use another day.
I think that's the best you can do. And you risk a price change in the time between redemptions as noted.
You can call Amex to try to ask for a one-time points transfer from your spouse but the reports of them saying yes are few and far between.
I think that's the best you can do. And you risk a price change in the time between redemptions as noted.
You can call Amex to try to ask for a one-time points transfer from your spouse but the reports of them saying yes are few and far between.
Mar 28, 2017, 1:04 pm
#368
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,785
Looking at 2x HA F seats from Tahiti to Bay Area one way via Hawaii stopover
Looking for best value here, cash price is $1700 each.... Amex offer 50% points back. Problem is I do not have all the points.
I have close to 200K at end of month, which is enough for redemption total (after half back) but not for whole total... over 300k is needed!
Is there any way around this? Wil Amex allow exception?
Can you transfer from spouses MR account?
Looking for best value here, cash price is $1700 each.... Amex offer 50% points back. Problem is I do not have all the points.
I have close to 200K at end of month, which is enough for redemption total (after half back) but not for whole total... over 300k is needed!
Is there any way around this? Wil Amex allow exception?
Can you transfer from spouses MR account?
Apr 7, 2017, 5:49 pm
#369
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,954
Booked two AA domestic first class tickets for Independence Day "weekend".
If booked on aa.com
$1908 fare (954 X 2)
100,000 AAdvantage miles required is sAAver inventory available, but it was not.
200,000 AAdvantage miles required for AAnytime award.
As booked on amextravel.com
$1770 fare paid on 4.6.2017
176,982 Membership Rewards points redeemed on 4.6.2017
88,491 Membership Rewards points redeposited on 4.7.2017 (less than 24 hours)
$1770 fare credited (Overnight 4.7-8.2017)
Net redemption 88,491 to save $1908 = $0.0215/point. Fewer MR points than would have been required for an AA sAAver award, and it's a revenue ticket which earns miles.
Delta also operates this route, and has a lower fare ~$1,690, but a departure time that was less acceptable to ms mia. I did not check to see if American Express also discounted the DL fare.
If booked on aa.com
$1908 fare (954 X 2)
100,000 AAdvantage miles required is sAAver inventory available, but it was not.
200,000 AAdvantage miles required for AAnytime award.
As booked on amextravel.com
$1770 fare paid on 4.6.2017
176,982 Membership Rewards points redeemed on 4.6.2017
88,491 Membership Rewards points redeposited on 4.7.2017 (less than 24 hours)
$1770 fare credited (Overnight 4.7-8.2017)
Net redemption 88,491 to save $1908 = $0.0215/point. Fewer MR points than would have been required for an AA sAAver award, and it's a revenue ticket which earns miles.
Delta also operates this route, and has a lower fare ~$1,690, but a departure time that was less acceptable to ms mia. I did not check to see if American Express also discounted the DL fare.
Last edited by mia; Apr 8, 2017 at 5:09 pm
Apr 8, 2017, 6:53 am
#370
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Mem
Programs: Delta GM, Amex Reserve, Amex Plat, JP Morgan Palladium
Posts: 984
With the ongoing devaluation of regular airline miles, this single Amex benefit has caused me to move the vast majority of my spending from other cards to Amex MR earning cards. I very much hope it is sustainable. With first class airfares dropping, this benefit almost makes chasing elite status pointless if you have a large MR balance. Mia's example above is a perfect illustration.
Apr 8, 2017, 9:01 am
#371
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PHX
Posts: 4,787
After you fly let us know how your EQD posts -- whether it's based on the $1908 fare, the insider saving fare, or a special bulk fare using a percentage of miles flown.
Last edited by mia; Apr 8, 2017 at 5:10 pm Reason: Prune quotation.
Apr 8, 2017, 9:29 am
#372
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 81
Thank you for the data points.
Apr 8, 2017, 12:17 pm
#373
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,166
Mia, was that a personal or biz platinum card?
Apr 8, 2017, 5:12 pm
#374
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,954
Business