Apr 22, 2015, 10:57 am
Last edit by: mia
Effective June 2017 the USA Business Platinum airfare Pay-with-Points refund was reduced to 35%. This brings the net value to $0.0153 per point, essentially the same as Chase Sapphire Reserve's Pay-with-Points redemption rate.
USA Business Centurion cardholders will continue to receive a 50% refund. The Centurion version is also broader than the Platinum benefit:
Centurion: beginning October 6, 2016 you will get 50% Membership Rewards® points back when you use the Pay with Points feature for all or part of a flight on any airline. The maximum rebate per calendar year for Centurion members is (_______?)
Platinum: Business Platinum Card Members will receive 5 extra points for every 10 points they redeem for either a First or Business class flight on any airline, or for flights with their selected qualifying airline using Membership Rewards Pay with Points with American Express Travel (35% Airline Bonus). The maximum rebate per calendar year for Business Platinum Card Members is 1,000,000 points.
FAQ
Q1. How does the process work?
A1. Here is an example, buying a $1,000.00 ticket:
Q2. Must the Business Centurion or Platinum card be used to purchase the ticket?
A2. When the benefit was refreshed in October 2016 you could pay with any card linked to the same Membership Rewards account, but it appears this changed in April 2017.
Q3. Will I earn Membership Rewards points on the purchase price?
A3. You will not earn base points, but you may earn bonus points if you pay with a card that awards a bonus for airline ticket purchases, such as Business Platinum, Personal Platinum, Business Rewards Gold, Premier Rewards Gold.
Q4. What happens if I cancel the ticket?
A4. There are mixed reports, but in most examples the cost of the ticket is refunded (a second time) to the card account. In one example American Express refunded the remainder of the points instead. If you prefer the points refunded rather than a cash credit, phone into AMEX and they will restore the points and remove the credit.
Q5. Can this benefit be combined with the International Airline Program companion ticket?
A5. One poster was told no, but another was able to do so.
USA Business Centurion cardholders will continue to receive a 50% refund. The Centurion version is also broader than the Platinum benefit:
Centurion: beginning October 6, 2016 you will get 50% Membership Rewards® points back when you use the Pay with Points feature for all or part of a flight on any airline. The maximum rebate per calendar year for Centurion members is (_______?)
Platinum: Business Platinum Card Members will receive 5 extra points for every 10 points they redeem for either a First or Business class flight on any airline, or for flights with their selected qualifying airline using Membership Rewards Pay with Points with American Express Travel (35% Airline Bonus). The maximum rebate per calendar year for Business Platinum Card Members is 1,000,000 points.
FAQ
Q1. How does the process work?
A1. Here is an example, buying a $1,000.00 ticket:
- $1,000 charged to American Express card [Day 1]
- 100,000 Membership Rewards points redeemed [Day 1]
- $1,000 credited to American Express card [Day 2]
- _35,000 Membership Rewards points returned [~a month later]
- Net: $1,000 ticket for 65,000 points = $0.0154/point
Q2. Must the Business Centurion or Platinum card be used to purchase the ticket?
A2. When the benefit was refreshed in October 2016 you could pay with any card linked to the same Membership Rewards account, but it appears this changed in April 2017.
Q3. Will I earn Membership Rewards points on the purchase price?
A3. You will not earn base points, but you may earn bonus points if you pay with a card that awards a bonus for airline ticket purchases, such as Business Platinum, Personal Platinum, Business Rewards Gold, Premier Rewards Gold.
Q4. What happens if I cancel the ticket?
A4. There are mixed reports, but in most examples the cost of the ticket is refunded (a second time) to the card account. In one example American Express refunded the remainder of the points instead. If you prefer the points refunded rather than a cash credit, phone into AMEX and they will restore the points and remove the credit.
Q5. Can this benefit be combined with the International Airline Program companion ticket?
A5. One poster was told no, but another was able to do so.
Pay-with-Points flights. BUSINESS Centurion 50% refund, Plat 35%, Gold 25% (2015-23)
May 5, 2017, 9:25 am
#526
Moderator: Travel Buzz
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 3,099
The fee increase to $550 (!!!) combined with the reduction to the points rebate, with the limitation on coach seats to your preferred airline only, does indeed close the gap with the much easier to use Chase Sapphire Reserve.
May 5, 2017, 9:30 am
#527
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Programs: AA Plat, SPG/Marriot Gold, HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Expl
Posts: 2,363
The increased annual fee (as of now) only applies to the personal Platinum card, not the Business.
May 5, 2017, 9:37 am
#528
Moderator: Travel Buzz
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 3,099
May 5, 2017, 2:06 pm
#529
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: TPA/DFW/K15
Programs: AA EXP, Mar AMB, HH LT DIA
Posts: 1,652
Can anybody please tell me why was this 50% redemption big deal for people to begin with. It translates to 2 cent back per dollar spend. Citi double cash gives you 2% with no annual fee. Why couldn't amex hold on to this benefit if cards with no annual fee are giving it away?
I'm wondering if the delay in rebate points posting (4.11? by most accounts) will trigger a class action against AMEX. I'm sure their T&Cs probably say something like "allow 60 days to post", but they've established a precedent of posting 99.9% of these rebases within 2 to 3 days which could invalidate their canned "allowance" language.
May 5, 2017, 7:30 pm
#530
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,837
I'm wondering if the delay in rebate points posting (4.11? by most accounts) will trigger a class action against AMEX. I'm sure their T&Cs probably say something like "allow 60 days to post", but they've established a precedent of posting 99.9% of these rebases within 2 to 3 days which could invalidate their canned "allowance" language.
May 6, 2017, 9:18 am
#531
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: TPA/DFW/K15
Programs: AA EXP, Mar AMB, HH LT DIA
Posts: 1,652
May 6, 2017, 10:02 am
#532
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: BAY AREA
Posts: 1,125
Not sure if math or correct it not. But can't you earn up to 3% back after 50% refund? For people who have 5k or more charges on card get 50% more. So essentially the card earns 1.5 MR for 5k charges or and now 50% refund on MR?
May 6, 2017, 5:51 pm
#533
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PHX
Posts: 4,787
I think Amex would have likely faced some legal exposure if they had changed this benefit after collecting an annual fee with the promise of the benefit. My hunch is that is why they extended the benefit to a year for those who obtained the card after the date of the benefit.
In certain circumstances, I could see a lawsuit that goes something like: You induced me to spend $x on your card and then changed the benefits, so I'm entitled to old benefits at least until I spend the points I accumulated in reliance on your promise. But if this is a valid claim, then there would be a valid claim any time a credit card bank devalues any benefit. I suppose their terms could be attacked as a contract of adhesion, but that's tough sledding, especially if they offer the annual fee back (like happened with the Club Carlson card when they took away last night free) or keep the benefits in place until the annual fee period is over.
Bottom line, it sucks that Amex changed this neat benefit, and it's a little mock-worthy that they got caught with their pants down so quickly after announcing it, but the bottom line is that the way they are devaluing probably keeps them covered unless they really start to drag out the 50 percent reimbursement beyond the time allowed in order to try to push points redemptions out past the one year.
May 8, 2017, 1:36 pm
#534
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: YYC, SFO, OAK
Programs: AS MVP 75K, AA Platinum, IHG Platinum, Club Carlson Gold
Posts: 734
I still haven't gotten a rebate for a flight booked on 4/13 and several other flights booked on subsequent days. I'm anxiously waiting for points rebates to post so I can book some more J fares for later this year... obviously I'd rather pay with all points rather than have to supplement with cash. I'm far more upset about this delay in rebates posting than I am about the future loss of this benefit.
May 8, 2017, 1:52 pm
#535
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,199
I still haven't gotten a rebate for a flight booked on 4/13 and several other flights booked on subsequent days. I'm anxiously waiting for points rebates to post so I can book some more J fares for later this year... obviously I'd rather pay with all points rather than have to supplement with cash. I'm far more upset about this delay in rebates posting than I am about the future loss of this benefit.
May 8, 2017, 2:43 pm
#536
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: LIT
Programs: Blinged Out
Posts: 716
Ok guys and gals, file this under "data point:"
I just finished talking with an AMEX Membership Rewards representative, and she was extraordinarily helpful in both refunding travel booked with points that I had to book on Delta.dumb instead of AMEXTravel last week and on clarifying the MR rebate process/timeline for my not-yet-posted transactions.
She told me that, according to their study of high-spend Plat and Centurion HVCs, only 8% of them actually use the Pay with Points feature/rebate feature when it was at 50% rebate. She thought that reducing that to 35% rebate wasn't a good idea, though. I obviously agreed with her.
Secondly, she said the slow posting on 1.5x bonuses and Pay With Points rebates was due to an IT upgrade they have been making (Wonder if the Delta MQM issue was part of that yesterday?). She assured me that the slow posting is an aberration and not the norm, even though the language in the CA does say 8-10 weeks.
The 8% utilization of the 50% Pay With Points rebate, if true, is shocking.
I just finished talking with an AMEX Membership Rewards representative, and she was extraordinarily helpful in both refunding travel booked with points that I had to book on Delta.dumb instead of AMEXTravel last week and on clarifying the MR rebate process/timeline for my not-yet-posted transactions.
She told me that, according to their study of high-spend Plat and Centurion HVCs, only 8% of them actually use the Pay with Points feature/rebate feature when it was at 50% rebate. She thought that reducing that to 35% rebate wasn't a good idea, though. I obviously agreed with her.
Secondly, she said the slow posting on 1.5x bonuses and Pay With Points rebates was due to an IT upgrade they have been making (Wonder if the Delta MQM issue was part of that yesterday?). She assured me that the slow posting is an aberration and not the norm, even though the language in the CA does say 8-10 weeks.
The 8% utilization of the 50% Pay With Points rebate, if true, is shocking.
May 8, 2017, 2:58 pm
#537
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 613
I think the 35% rebate is for accounts opened on 1 June 2017 or after.
Last edited by JATR4; May 8, 2017 at 4:04 pm
May 8, 2017, 3:26 pm
#538
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,954
I would be surprised if a front line agent would have access to that type of information, and it would be irresponsible to share it outside the company. That said, I would not be surprised if the utilization rate of any new benefit is low. It takes sustained messaging to overcome inertia and change behavior.
Last edited by mia; May 9, 2017 at 12:45 am Reason: spelling
May 8, 2017, 3:27 pm
#539
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,954
Moderator action
Discussion of another Business Platinum benefit moved to more specific thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...-platinum.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...-platinum.html
May 8, 2017, 3:46 pm
#540
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 315
Ok guys and gals, file this under "data point:"
I just finished talking with an AMEX Membership Rewards representative, and she was extraordinarily helpful in both refunding travel booked with points that I had to book on Delta.dumb instead of AMEXTravel last week and on clarifying the MR rebate process/timeline for my not-yet-posted transactions.
She told me that, according to their study of high-spend Plat and Centurion HVCs, only 8% of them actually use the Pay with Points feature/rebate feature when it was at 50% rebate. She thought that reducing that to 35% rebate wasn't a good idea, though. I obviously agreed with her.
Secondly, she said the slow posting on 1.5x bonuses and Pay With Points rebates was due to an IT upgrade they have been making (Wonder if the Delta MQM issue was part of that yesterday?). She assured me that the slow posting is an aberration and not the norm, even though the language in the CA does say 8-10 weeks.
The 8% utilization of the 50% Pay With Points rebate, if true, is shocking.
I just finished talking with an AMEX Membership Rewards representative, and she was extraordinarily helpful in both refunding travel booked with points that I had to book on Delta.dumb instead of AMEXTravel last week and on clarifying the MR rebate process/timeline for my not-yet-posted transactions.
She told me that, according to their study of high-spend Plat and Centurion HVCs, only 8% of them actually use the Pay with Points feature/rebate feature when it was at 50% rebate. She thought that reducing that to 35% rebate wasn't a good idea, though. I obviously agreed with her.
Secondly, she said the slow posting on 1.5x bonuses and Pay With Points rebates was due to an IT upgrade they have been making (Wonder if the Delta MQM issue was part of that yesterday?). She assured me that the slow posting is an aberration and not the norm, even though the language in the CA does say 8-10 weeks.
The 8% utilization of the 50% Pay With Points rebate, if true, is shocking.