Last edit by: mia
Policy Changes effective March 22, 2019
Source: https://thecenturionlounge.com/info/access/
NOTE: FOR PLATINUM CARD MEMBERS ONLY
The Centurion Lounge is a day of departure lounge. We will not admit arriving Platinum Card Members with boarding passes for flights that have just landed. We will admit Platinum Card Members with layovers or connecting flights who produce proof of connecting flight.
We will not admit Platinum Card Members more than 3 hours before the departure time on the Platinum Card Member’s same-day, confirmed boarding pass. This does not apply to Platinum Card Members with a connecting flight.
We will admit children under 2 years of age free of charge, provided an accompanying parent or guardian is able to produce a “lap infant” boarding pass or proof of age
The Centurion Lounge is a day of departure lounge. We will not admit arriving Platinum Card Members with boarding passes for flights that have just landed. We will admit Platinum Card Members with layovers or connecting flights who produce proof of connecting flight.
We will not admit Platinum Card Members more than 3 hours before the departure time on the Platinum Card Member’s same-day, confirmed boarding pass. This does not apply to Platinum Card Members with a connecting flight.
We will admit children under 2 years of age free of charge, provided an accompanying parent or guardian is able to produce a “lap infant” boarding pass or proof of age
Centurion Lounge crowding (2015-2019)
#766
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,027
You noticed that too? Funny how that works!
People that travel solo think the problem is guests. People that travel only occasionally but with a large family think the problem is that some other people visit too often. People that use a lounge only before a flight think the problem is people that also use it upon arrival. People that use it only prior to original departure and not during long connections think the problem is that people stay too long in the lounge. Centurion cardholders think the problem is that Platinums get in for free. Each group has a plan to reduce lounge crowding, which miraculously affects only the way other cardholders use the lounge. And, each group seems to think that their particular group is the one that's most profitable to Amex, so obviously they should be catered to at the expense of the others. And, some portion of each group have an attitude that they will "punish" Amex by cancelling all their cards if there are any changes that affect them.
People that travel solo think the problem is guests. People that travel only occasionally but with a large family think the problem is that some other people visit too often. People that use a lounge only before a flight think the problem is people that also use it upon arrival. People that use it only prior to original departure and not during long connections think the problem is that people stay too long in the lounge. Centurion cardholders think the problem is that Platinums get in for free. Each group has a plan to reduce lounge crowding, which miraculously affects only the way other cardholders use the lounge. And, each group seems to think that their particular group is the one that's most profitable to Amex, so obviously they should be catered to at the expense of the others. And, some portion of each group have an attitude that they will "punish" Amex by cancelling all their cards if there are any changes that affect them.
Couldn't agree more.
Regards
#767
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Houston
Programs: UA GS 2.6MM & Lifetime UC, Qantas Platinum, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, Bonvoy Platinum, HawaiianMiles
Posts: 8,682
Sometimes airports and lounges are crowded, sometimes they are not. This happens. There is no reason to keep complaining and suggesting massive changes that will put many people out. If the lounge is too crowded for you, don't go!
#768
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,027
Somehow a large percentage of FTers seem to have convinced themselves that they all "deserve" rarefied access to the highest end of travel experiences at an incredibly low cost. That just doesn't scale, I don't know how to say that any more clearly.
Think about it, the annual fee for the Amex Platinum card used to be like, $395 per year, without a $200 travel credit, and didn't even offer airport lounge access. And still, people carried the card. Today, we have a card with an effective annual fee of $250 (after the travel credit), offering access to airport lounges and people come on FT to complain about the brand of champagne on offer.
What I'm about to say is likely going to sound elitist and it's going to torque some people. That said, if people here saw how my wife and I live, relative to our means, I don't think anyone would accuse me of being elitist. But the cold reality is that if everyone is "special" then no one, by the very definition of the word, is special. The model of these lounges just doesn't scale to servicing everyone in today's world that can afford a $250 annual fee credit card, it just doesn't work. The business model won't scale and Amex won't invest in the physcial space required to meet that capacity. For example, you aren't going to see Amex build multiple lounges at DFW to cover multiple terminals, likely just not to going to happen.
So, it's a supply/demand issue and clearly there is a large percentage of posters here that believe trying to artificially restrict demand (i.e. limit guests/limit visits) will fix it; count me a skeptic on that front (for reasons to long to explain in this already long post). I suspect the most effective way to manage demand is through the same method it's done in almost every other area of business and the economy, the same way it's done by many of the companies employing FTers that allow them to travel around the world and enjoy airport lounges, and that is through pricing discipline, plain and simple. That is raise the annual fee and/or eliminate the travel credit until demand for lounge access more evenly matches physical supply.
So, if Amex has the data, and the path forward to a solution is as crystal clear as many in this forum believe it to be, why haven't they acted?
Regards
#769
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,027
#770
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,812
I suspect the most effective way to manage demand is through the same method it's done in almost every other area of business and the economy, the same way it's done by many of the companies employing FTers that allow them to travel around the world and enjoy airport lounges, and that is through pricing discipline, plain and simple. That is raise the annual fee and/or eliminate the travel credit until demand for lounge access more evenly matches physical supply.
But I am not so sure about this one. If we were to believe that the average Plat card holder visits the lounge once per year, then would those average members not be "punished" for no reason? Certainly it might eliminate a lot of over-consumers of lounge services, but they might also be throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Or perhaps those members are simply not price sensitive and wouldn't care if the price doubles. If so... more power to Amex. As I said, it is just business for me. If they can successfully extract higher fees, that is fine.
Then why haven't they? This isn't a new problem. This specific thread started approximately two years ago and prior to that the problem was being discussed in several of the individual lounge threads (e.g. DFW crowding) much further back than that.
So, if Amex has the data, and the path forward to a solution is as crystal clear as many in this forum believe it to be, why haven't they acted?
Regards
Or perhaps they just believe they have addressed the "problem" sufficiently by ensuring that Centurions always find a seat and letting the rest of the membership simply fight over the remaining scraps. Those of us who use the lounge the most are probably also the ones who facing crowding issues most often.
#771
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
You noticed that too? Funny how that works!
People that travel solo think the problem is guests. People that travel only occasionally but with a large family think the problem is that some other people visit too often. People that use a lounge only before a flight think the problem is people that also use it upon arrival. People that use it only prior to original departure and not during long connections think the problem is that people stay too long in the lounge. Centurion cardholders think the problem is that Platinums get in for free. Each group has a plan to reduce lounge crowding, which miraculously affects only the way other cardholders use the lounge. And, each group seems to think that their particular group is the one that's most profitable to Amex, so obviously they should be catered to at the expense of the others. And, some portion of each group have an attitude that they will "punish" Amex by cancelling all their cards if there are any changes that affect them.
People that travel solo think the problem is guests. People that travel only occasionally but with a large family think the problem is that some other people visit too often. People that use a lounge only before a flight think the problem is people that also use it upon arrival. People that use it only prior to original departure and not during long connections think the problem is that people stay too long in the lounge. Centurion cardholders think the problem is that Platinums get in for free. Each group has a plan to reduce lounge crowding, which miraculously affects only the way other cardholders use the lounge. And, each group seems to think that their particular group is the one that's most profitable to Amex, so obviously they should be catered to at the expense of the others. And, some portion of each group have an attitude that they will "punish" Amex by cancelling all their cards if there are any changes that affect them.
I guest people in all the time, however I do think that's a big part of the problem. When we look at the locations that are severely overcrowded (MIA), it's easy to tell the big problem is guest access being so easily available. Even though I regularly guest people in, I don't think my guests should have priority over people who are actually cardholders. If limiting guest access/charging for guest access solves the problem, I'm more than willing to see that changed.
#772
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,027
Lots of good points in your post that I agree with.
But I am not so sure about this one. If we were to believe that the average Plat card holder visits the lounge once per year, then would those average members not be "punished" for no reason? Certainly it might eliminate a lot of over-consumers of lounge services, but they might also be throwing out the baby with the bath water.
But I am not so sure about this one. If we were to believe that the average Plat card holder visits the lounge once per year, then would those average members not be "punished" for no reason? Certainly it might eliminate a lot of over-consumers of lounge services, but they might also be throwing out the baby with the bath water.
So far I generally find that one of our FHR stays per year almost always more than covers the $250 effective annual fee. The rest just becomes gravy.
Or perhaps they just believe they have addressed the "problem" sufficiently by ensuring that Centurions always find a seat and letting the rest of the membership simply fight over the remaining scraps. Those of us who use the lounge the most are probably also the ones who facing crowding issues most often.
I suspect this is one reason they have not attempted to restrict Platinum cardholders yet (not saying they won't, but clearly they haven't taken that step) as the financial fall out from that step could be much more significant than an angry Cent cardholder that can't find a table...
Regards
#773
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,027
I actually kind of disagree.
I guest people in all the time, however I do think that's a big part of the problem. When we look at the locations that are severely overcrowded (MIA), it's easy to tell the big problem is guest access being so easily available. Even though I regularly guest people in, I don't think my guests should have priority over people who are actually cardholders. If limiting guest access/charging for guest access solves the problem, I'm more than willing to see that changed.
I guest people in all the time, however I do think that's a big part of the problem. When we look at the locations that are severely overcrowded (MIA), it's easy to tell the big problem is guest access being so easily available. Even though I regularly guest people in, I don't think my guests should have priority over people who are actually cardholders. If limiting guest access/charging for guest access solves the problem, I'm more than willing to see that changed.
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...nge-access.jsp
Why do you suppose that AA is able to manage that and Amex can't? @:-) (I believe I have answer to that question, but I'm curious to here yours)
Regards
#774
So, would you agree that the American Airlines Admiral's club has almost identical guest guidelines as Amex Cent Lounges; 2 guests or your immediate family? (meaning that Dad or Mom can bring their entire clan of ankle biters, no matter how many, into the Admiral's Club)
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...nge-access.jsp
Why do you suppose that AA is able to manage that and Amex can't? @:-) (I believe I have answer to that question, but I'm curious to here yours)
Regards
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...nge-access.jsp
Why do you suppose that AA is able to manage that and Amex can't? @:-) (I believe I have answer to that question, but I'm curious to here yours)
Regards
#775
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,027
And I'd throw in that many of the Admiral's Clubs at larger airports also have substantially larger footprints (square footage wise).
This is why I keep yelling in the wind in this forum that the Amex model just isn't going to scale. "Tweaks" here and there around the edges likely won't be enough. One small lounge in a large, high traffic airport that needs to serve ALL Amex Plat/Cent cardholders and their guests/family, flying all airlines, just isn't going to scale.
Regards
#776
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Programs: UA 1K, AA Lifetime Platinum, DL Platinum, Honors Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz Platinum
Posts: 7,969
But to get to my main point: Even if crowding is a problem, I don't see it as a scalability issue. It's not as if as they add lounges in other cities, that demand for the current ones will go up substantially. I suspect that what we see now is more or less the "steady state" of affairs.
I do wonder how much the use of the space could be tweaked. For example, how often is the children's room used? If that were to be converted to regular seating, that would make room for several more 4-tops at least.
#777
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Programs: UA 1K, AA Lifetime Platinum, DL Platinum, Honors Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz Platinum
Posts: 7,969
I've always said that the moment I don't believe I'm extracting more benefits/value from the card than it costs me I will cancel the card, immediately. Period. Full stop. And I won't look back. I won't start a thread here in this forum to whine about it, it will just be gone.
I guest people in all the time, however I do think that's a big part of the problem. When we look at the locations that are severely overcrowded (MIA), it's easy to tell the big problem is guest access being so easily available. Even though I regularly guest people in, I don't think my guests should have priority over people who are actually cardholders. If limiting guest access/charging for guest access solves the problem, I'm more than willing to see that changed.
#778
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,027
Is the crowding problem really that bad? I've been to the IAH, DFW, LGA, and LAS lounges now, and although they've been crowded at times, I've never not been able to get a seat for myself, somewhere. And I've never seen the buffet picked clean where I couldn't get something to eat. I have no doubt that some of the lounges, at some times, get to 100% capacity, I'd be interested to know how often this is really a problem.
As for me, my wife and I have definitely experienced peak crowding in DFW, where we did in fact have to "hover" for quite a bit to find seating (we actually almost bailed for the Admiral's club, then in fact did after eating just to get some "space"). Additionally, one of the rare times that I flew UA last year on a business trip, I stopped into the SFO lounge and it was indeed a complete zoo. I started out standing to eat and pounced aggressively on a small table the moment I sensed the person was about to leave.
But to get to my main point: Even if crowding is a problem, I don't see it as a scalability issue. It's not as if as they add lounges in other cities, that demand for the current ones will go up substantially. I suspect that what we see now is more or less the "steady state" of affairs.
Oh, and by the way AA charges more for an Admiral's Club membership than Amex charges for the Platinum card and all they offer is club access. No FHR, no elite status in hotel or rental car programs, no priority pass membership, etc. etc. On the other hand, Amex has one relatively smaller lounge to support ALL Platinum/Cent cardholders, across all four terminals and airlines at DFW. That, by definition, is not scaling to meet the demand you have created through marketing the benefit.
Now, just map that logic across other airports. As another poster mentioned, AA has 3 Admiral's Clubs at ORD (plus a Flagship Lounge). That means just American Airlines has the same number of phyiscal clubs, at just two different airports, to service just their fliers (and alliance members) as Amex has in the entire system (all of which have smaller physical footprints) to serve ALL Amex Plt/Cent cardholders, their guests, and families, in the entire system.
Regards
#779
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,027
#780
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,578
I think I'm even more of a minority on this, because I don't think this is a problem for either cardholders or Amex.
From my perspective: If I can get a seat 95% of the time, I'm happy. I would not find it worthwhile to pay a higher fee, give up my guesting privileges, etc., just to ensure that I can find a seat the remaining 5% of the time.
From Amex's perspective: It's better to have full lounges than empty lounges. Empty lounges mean lost revenue from people who might have been willing to pay for that space if it were cheaper. Overcrowding during peak times is better than limiting access and having unutilized space during the rest of the day. This is the same logic by which airlines overbook flights. It's better to occasionally deny someone boarding than to have empty seats on every flight.
From my perspective: If I can get a seat 95% of the time, I'm happy. I would not find it worthwhile to pay a higher fee, give up my guesting privileges, etc., just to ensure that I can find a seat the remaining 5% of the time.
From Amex's perspective: It's better to have full lounges than empty lounges. Empty lounges mean lost revenue from people who might have been willing to pay for that space if it were cheaper. Overcrowding during peak times is better than limiting access and having unutilized space during the rest of the day. This is the same logic by which airlines overbook flights. It's better to occasionally deny someone boarding than to have empty seats on every flight.