Jan 17, 2015, 11:17 am
Last edit by: JJonahJ
This thread is a continuation of discussion which began HERE in 2011. It was very active in 2014, read HERE.
Referrals and self-referrals are an important part of churning Canadian-issued American Express cards. It is appropriate to discuss how the referral process works in this thread. However, please do not offer or request referrals here.
Use only this thread, and do read the Wikipost carefully before posting:
Referral Offers (post only in this thread, no referral links, read Wiki post first).
JerryHung: I figure I'll include all CURRENT AMEX Canada offers here (no referral links) for anyone curious about what the bonus and fees are
This is not an all-inclusive list, only the "good" offers, so feel free to add new offers
AMEX Platinum Rewards - $699/year, 60K MR (via referral) after $1000 spending in 3 months vs. 50K non-referral
AMEX Gold Rewards - $150/year, FYF, 25K MR after $500 spending + $50 cashback from GCR
(as of Jan 11, 2016 Gold card will no longer earn referral points.)
AMEX Air Miles Platinum - $65/year, FYF, 2000 Air Miles after $500 spending + $30 GCR cashback
AMEX SPG - $120/year, 20K SPG after $500 spending + $30 GCR cashback
New as of 2014/10/09
AMEX Business Gold Rewards - $250/year, FYF, 30K MR after $5000 spending (or 40K via referral)
AMEX Business Platinum Rewards - $399/year, 40K MR after $5000 spending (or 50K via referral)
AMEX Aeroplan Plus Platinum - $499/year, 50K Aeroplans after $1000 spending in 3 months (or 51K via referral). Normally 40K/41K, extra 10K promo running till Mar 31, 2016
Referrals and self-referrals are an important part of churning Canadian-issued American Express cards. It is appropriate to discuss how the referral process works in this thread. However, please do not offer or request referrals here.
Use only this thread, and do read the Wikipost carefully before posting:
Referral Offers (post only in this thread, no referral links, read Wiki post first).
JerryHung: I figure I'll include all CURRENT AMEX Canada offers here (no referral links) for anyone curious about what the bonus and fees are
This is not an all-inclusive list, only the "good" offers, so feel free to add new offers
AMEX Platinum Rewards - $699/year, 60K MR (via referral) after $1000 spending in 3 months vs. 50K non-referral
AMEX Gold Rewards - $150/year, FYF, 25K MR after $500 spending + $50 cashback from GCR
(as of Jan 11, 2016 Gold card will no longer earn referral points.)
AMEX Air Miles Platinum - $65/year, FYF, 2000 Air Miles after $500 spending + $30 GCR cashback
AMEX SPG - $120/year, 20K SPG after $500 spending + $30 GCR cashback
New as of 2014/10/09
AMEX Business Gold Rewards - $250/year, FYF, 30K MR after $5000 spending (or 40K via referral)
AMEX Business Platinum Rewards - $399/year, 40K MR after $5000 spending (or 50K via referral)
AMEX Aeroplan Plus Platinum - $499/year, 50K Aeroplans after $1000 spending in 3 months (or 51K via referral). Normally 40K/41K, extra 10K promo running till Mar 31, 2016
Churning Amex in Canada (2015)
Jul 7, 2015, 12:26 pm
#661
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: Marriott Rewards: Platinum
Posts: 124
I've never heard of that at all zer0k1
Jul 7, 2015, 12:29 pm
#662
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: Marriott Rewards: Platinum
Posts: 124
Btw, can someone answer a question related to Platinum insurance? I've had to cancel my card this week (my year was up) - I also did not get offered ANY MR rewards or travel statement (yearly spend - about 20 k/year). After I did, I realized I booked a trip to Europe on it about a month ago. Does anyone know if the Amex insurance will still cover me? I currently have a Gold card.
Also, I was just wondering - the trip I booked was an Aeroplan redemption (so I paid all the fuel surcharge and tax on it) - because I just paid the fees and not the "full price of the ticket", would I have even been covered anyway?
Thanks all. It's too bad they switch the rules of the game. It seems that 2013/2014 was a bit of a golden age.
Also, I was just wondering - the trip I booked was an Aeroplan redemption (so I paid all the fuel surcharge and tax on it) - because I just paid the fees and not the "full price of the ticket", would I have even been covered anyway?
Thanks all. It's too bad they switch the rules of the game. It seems that 2013/2014 was a bit of a golden age.
Jul 7, 2015, 12:35 pm
#664
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: YVR
Posts: 1,847
Extremely disapointing. I was less than a month away from a my next personal Gold application.
I guess I can live with the biz cards, though it's trickier only having one. Might do the biz plat today just to get the cycle going (would need SPG or the biz gold next).
As far as their strategy, I think Amex is going to become less and less relevant.
For the average Canadian, I would think the Costco relationship was the main reason for many to have an Amex card. Now that's gone.
As far as other Amex users go, I'm not sure what they are like.
I'm sure there are a bunch that are losing them money. The sign-up, only use the card enough to get the bonus, never pay an annual fee types.
Then I'm sure there are many others who churn to a degree but are still profitable. I put as much spend as I can on my Amex cards. The SPG first and the Plat second. I'll keep these cards and pay the annual fee. The personal Gold churn is more or less like a self-directed retention bonus.
But now it becomes so much tougher to justify the Plat annual fee. It used to be $399/year annual fee with more benefits (esp. lounge access, Marco Polo gold status). Now, it's a $699 ($499 after the $200 travel credit) annual fee with fewer benefits. At least I could get 15k referral bonuses a couple times a year (my wife and I). If that's gone...value is severely diminished.
If they were going the U.S. route, with the once-a-lifetime bonuses per card and no backdating, you'd at least expect them to add some of the U.S. benefits like no forex fees, more airline transfer parters, lower annual fee. But I highly doubt it.
As an aside, I don't like the outlook for the Canadian credit card industry as a consumer. Cap One getting rid of Delta card is an example. Chase Canada is on borrowed time...they already sold the Best Buy cards to Desjardins. Marriott and Amazon will go at some point (Canada's just to small to bother for Chase cards I imagine)...so the no forex fee cards will disappear at some point If I had to bet.
I guess I can live with the biz cards, though it's trickier only having one. Might do the biz plat today just to get the cycle going (would need SPG or the biz gold next).
As far as their strategy, I think Amex is going to become less and less relevant.
For the average Canadian, I would think the Costco relationship was the main reason for many to have an Amex card. Now that's gone.
As far as other Amex users go, I'm not sure what they are like.
I'm sure there are a bunch that are losing them money. The sign-up, only use the card enough to get the bonus, never pay an annual fee types.
Then I'm sure there are many others who churn to a degree but are still profitable. I put as much spend as I can on my Amex cards. The SPG first and the Plat second. I'll keep these cards and pay the annual fee. The personal Gold churn is more or less like a self-directed retention bonus.
But now it becomes so much tougher to justify the Plat annual fee. It used to be $399/year annual fee with more benefits (esp. lounge access, Marco Polo gold status). Now, it's a $699 ($499 after the $200 travel credit) annual fee with fewer benefits. At least I could get 15k referral bonuses a couple times a year (my wife and I). If that's gone...value is severely diminished.
If they were going the U.S. route, with the once-a-lifetime bonuses per card and no backdating, you'd at least expect them to add some of the U.S. benefits like no forex fees, more airline transfer parters, lower annual fee. But I highly doubt it.
As an aside, I don't like the outlook for the Canadian credit card industry as a consumer. Cap One getting rid of Delta card is an example. Chase Canada is on borrowed time...they already sold the Best Buy cards to Desjardins. Marriott and Amazon will go at some point (Canada's just to small to bother for Chase cards I imagine)...so the no forex fee cards will disappear at some point If I had to bet.
Jul 7, 2015, 12:40 pm
#665
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: YVR
Posts: 1,847
So, I'm not clear on the changes.
Does Personal still work if applying from a referral link?
How are business cards different from personal in regards to the new terms?
It seems you can still get the referral bonus (subject to new annual limits). So there is still a minor churn game in place.
Does Personal still work if applying from a referral link?
How are business cards different from personal in regards to the new terms?
It seems you can still get the referral bonus (subject to new annual limits). So there is still a minor churn game in place.
I, personally, don't think this is as cut at dry as it appears to be because other cards/banks that have the same stipulations have reported sign-up bonuses awarded when they shouldn't be. We just have to figure out what the loopholes are!
I think taking away the referral bonuses will be the real nail in the coffin for Amex. Hopefully those stick around...
Last edited by pokee; Jul 7, 2015 at 1:32 pm
Jul 7, 2015, 12:57 pm
#666
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: YVR
Posts: 1,847
Eliminating churners will not make Amex less relevant for the customers they want to attract, it will make them less relevant to customers who cost a lot of money then dump the card.
I cannot fathom why credit card companies have let this go on so long.
Eliminating churners could actually increase sign up bonuses, as the odds of keeping the new customer is probably higher once you have eliminated a large number of sign ups who never really wanted to be a customer past the bonus award.
I cannot fathom why credit card companies have let this go on so long.
Eliminating churners could actually increase sign up bonuses, as the odds of keeping the new customer is probably higher once you have eliminated a large number of sign ups who never really wanted to be a customer past the bonus award.
Do you know how many of my friends carry an Amex now that Costco has switched to MC? ZERO.
I am not saying it's a bad move for Amex. They'll likely save money. But I wholeheartedly agree that their relevance will be reduced, and more businesses will stop accepting them. Then they'll be gone...poof!
They would've been better off simply increasing the minimum spend, as others have suggested - or perhaps eliminating the annual fee waiver (which is also a big draw for churners like me on high earning cards).
You know - I almost feel insulted, in a way. I know that seems like a ridiculous statement, considering churning is really pushing the boundaries of the 'spirit' of the sign-up bonus (and I agree that Amex was really letting it get out of hand, especially with referrals -- which interestingly enough are not yet dead), but I am a 'loyal' Amex customer, who simply changes products frequently, because the benefits like FYF and bonuses suit me. I don't sign up and dump, I use each card for the full year, and spend A LOT and I've never been offered a retention bonus when going to cancel (they're always 'happy' to cancel, because they hear I have another Amex product).
So...maybe they're shooting themselves in the foot. We're not the American market. We do not have merchants galore that accept Amex. Amex is the redheaded stepchild in the credit card market in Canada, and they should be a lot more careful how they navigate this territory. Simply replicating what they've done in the US will not work here...
Last edited by pokee; Jul 7, 2015 at 1:17 pm
Jul 7, 2015, 1:06 pm
#667
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,784
Btw, can someone answer a question related to Platinum insurance? I've had to cancel my card this week (my year was up) - I also did not get offered ANY MR rewards or travel statement (yearly spend - about 20 k/year). After I did, I realized I booked a trip to Europe on it about a month ago. Does anyone know if the Amex insurance will still cover me? I currently have a Gold card.
Also, I was just wondering - the trip I booked was an Aeroplan redemption (so I paid all the fuel surcharge and tax on it) - because I just paid the fees and not the "full price of the ticket", would I have even been covered anyway?
Thanks all. It's too bad they switch the rules of the game. It seems that 2013/2014 was a bit of a golden age.
Also, I was just wondering - the trip I booked was an Aeroplan redemption (so I paid all the fuel surcharge and tax on it) - because I just paid the fees and not the "full price of the ticket", would I have even been covered anyway?
Thanks all. It's too bad they switch the rules of the game. It seems that 2013/2014 was a bit of a golden age.
but yes, it's cancelled = no insurance afterwards anyway
that's why I book my Aeroplan flights on TD Aeroplan CC, for insurance
How many cards are you holding? or in the household? I have 3 CHARGE + 2 CC and so far no issues in the last 2 years
Did you spend any anywhere suspicious? like Plastiq?
Last edited by jerryhung; Jul 7, 2015 at 1:12 pm
Jul 7, 2015, 1:17 pm
#668
Join Date: May 2014
Location: YYZ
Posts: 527
I currently have 4 charge: 3 personal and 1 business. Household we have 10 collectively. Yes I can see how my spending was "suspicious" because of large Plastiq payments and paying off the balance multiple times throughout the month. I didn't think there was any reason to limit my "suspicious" activity like in the US because I didn't Amex did "financial reviews" like they do in the US... Guess I was wrong
Jul 7, 2015, 1:19 pm
#669
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,784
I currently have 4 charge: 3 personal and 1 business. Household we have 10 collectively. Yes I can see how my spending was "suspicious" because of large Plastiq payments and paying off the balance multiple times throughout the month. I didn't think there was any reason to limit my "suspicious" activity like in the US because I didn't Amex did "financial reviews" like they do in the US... Guess I was wrong
Good luck and keep us posted
Jul 7, 2015, 1:22 pm
#670
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: YVR
Posts: 1,847
As someone who does most of my purchasing outside of Canada in USD/Euro I would gladly forgo the churnability of these cards in exchange for a US plat which offers no forex and is a far, far better card than the Canadian plat for $450 (essentially $250 with the $200 travel credit).
We are getting pillaged in Canada with our terrible choices in CC's. You have to carry 2-3 different cards and decide where your spend will go depending on where you are buying from.
We are getting pillaged in Canada with our terrible choices in CC's. You have to carry 2-3 different cards and decide where your spend will go depending on where you are buying from.
Let's see Amex come up with a card like this and I'll stick with them...
Jul 7, 2015, 1:30 pm
#671
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: YVR
Posts: 1,847
Jul 7, 2015, 2:52 pm
#673
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: YQM
Posts: 341
I currently have 4 charge: 3 personal and 1 business. Household we have 10 collectively. Yes I can see how my spending was "suspicious" because of large Plastiq payments and paying off the balance multiple times throughout the month. I didn't think there was any reason to limit my "suspicious" activity like in the US because I didn't Amex did "financial reviews" like they do in the US... Guess I was wrong
Canadian financial institutions are obligated to report to FINTRAC any large payment (over 10k)… but they also are very good at flagging multiple smaller payments through the month (so one cannot just do 10 $1k payment and avoid being flagged).
Hope you can go through this audit without to much damage to your Amex account… I would hate having my account closed by the lender for fraud…
Jul 7, 2015, 2:55 pm
#674
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: Aeroplan Diamond, SPG Plat, Hilton Gold, Marriott
Posts: 1,839
Jul 7, 2015, 4:20 pm
#675
Join Date: May 2014
Location: YYZ
Posts: 527
Seems like your account has been flagged for audit under the Anti Money Laundering act. Multiple payments through the month can easily trigger a manual audit.
Canadian financial institutions are obligated to report to FINTRAC any large payment (over 10k)… but they also are very good at flagging multiple smaller payments through the month (so one cannot just do 10 $1k payment and avoid being flagged).
Hope you can go through this audit without to much damage to your Amex account… I would hate having my account closed by the lender for fraud…
Canadian financial institutions are obligated to report to FINTRAC any large payment (over 10k)… but they also are very good at flagging multiple smaller payments through the month (so one cannot just do 10 $1k payment and avoid being flagged).
Hope you can go through this audit without to much damage to your Amex account… I would hate having my account closed by the lender for fraud…
Nope. Although I just did that now, in case I need to quickly close my cards before they do.