susiesan

You just wasted your minimum spend dollars.

beefninja

Well, we didn't "waste" them.

We got 60k pts instead of the 100k in the offer. But the incremental 40k pts are nothing to sneeze at (with a conservative 1.5cpp valuation, it's worth $600).

Good point.

Sam_AE

I have the Amex Gold small biz card. I signed up based on a 50k bonus after spending $5k (yes, i know it's not the best offer/deal). I made a large purchase that put me over the threshold but that item was later returned. The threshold points were posted but then removed once the item was returned. I have since met the threshold through a series of smaller purchases. Amex is now saying that since I returned the first item and the points were removed, I'm now disqualified from receiving the bonus (even though I met the threshold again and within the 3 month time limit).

I'm escalating to a supervisor (waiting for a call back). Anyone with any advice???

TMM1982

File a complaint with CFPB. AMEX will fall on its sword.

plainheart

Did you get your bonus points after talking to the supervisor? I read similar stories elsewhere without conclusion.

Sam_AE

Here's what I've learned about Amex' backward computer systems.

The most critical transaction to getting your threshold bonus is ONLY the transaction that brings you OVER the threshold. So, theoretically if your threshold is $5000 and your spending is as follows:

1st Purchase $4999
2nd purchase $3.00 Apple store
3rd purchase $25

If you return the 2nd purchase -- YOU WILL LOSE THE THRESHOLD BONUS! The threshold is effectively attached to the purchase that brought you over the threshold. Their system does not recognize the fact that you had a subsequent purchase of $25 to bring you back over the threshold.

In addition, you should also keep in mind that during the course of reaching your threshold spending, Amex will NOT net out returns that occur during your efforts to reach the threshold.

SO, here's another spending scenario. In this scenario let's just pretend your spending threshold is only $1,000. Let's say you have the following spending within 1 month (ie within the typical 3 month threshold time period):

1st Purchase $500
2nd Purchase $250
RETURN/CREDIT of item 1 -- $500
3rd Purchase $275

Gross purchases: $1025
NET purchases (ie net of the return): $525

In this scenario -- you actually **would** receive the threshold points based on the 3rd purchase!!! So, DO NOT RETURN THAT item or you will then LOSE your threshold points. Also, you do NOT need to continue spending more $$ on the card (ie $475) because according to Amex you've spent $1025.

It appears that this Amex computer programming is the only way they could figure out how to prevent 'scammers' -- I suppose the alternative of calculating net purchases (and ensuring that certain credits -- ie payments) did not screw up their calculation -- was too difficult.

What all of this means is that for Amex to give you your threshold points after you returned that KEY purchase that brought you over the GROSS spending threshold, they need to send the issue to their IT department to "reassign" the designation to the item that, in fact, is the new item that had you cross the threshold.

So, in the first example above, let's look at that third purchase (again, let's assume all of these happen within the three months):

1st Purchase $4999
2nd purchase $3.00 Apple store
RETURN $3.00 APPLE STORE purchase
3rd purchase $25.00

Based on the scenario above, your KEY purchase was the $3.00 apple store purchase -- because it was RETURNED, you are now SCREWED! So, what an Amex supervisor has to do is to contact their IT department to reassign the threshold from the Apple Store purchase (ie #2) to the 3rd purchase (ie the $25.00). This is a manual process that effectively triggers an audit of your purchases -- the supervisor will now look at every transaction and calculate your true (ie NET) spending to determine if and WHEN you met the spending threshold. They created this safeguard to prevent fraudulent points schemers, so they will scrutinize your account to determine if you are "worthy" of the threshold points -- FOR real this time, and not based on their screwed up IT logic. If you are entitled to the points, the IT department will attach the threshold points to the qualifying purchase within 6-8 weeks of that purchase date. So, be prepared to be patient.

The lesson for everyone is:

#1. Be mindful of your GROSS spending
#2 DO NOT RETURN the critical purchase that pushes you across your GROSS spending threshold (ie what Amex believes is your real threshold).
#3 If you do end up breaking rule#2.... be patient.... but persistent (assuming you legitimately are entitled to the threshold points)

plainheart

I'd thank you and the Amex representative who explains this to you for your tremendous efforts to figure it out.
Give myself a little credit for reading it through.

Sam_AE

I feel like if you can figure out the Amex system you should automatically get into medical school.

jakemalloy

My wife received an email offer for Delta Gold for 50K miles. She had not had a Delta card in the past 24 months. She reviewed the terms of service, but somewhere between the time she got the card and the time she hit the min. spend the policy changed to "never in your lifetime". She was not alerted. She asked Amex why they would email her an offer she was not eligible to receive? They said the offer is just a way to entice you to come back - but its not the only reason - you may want to just sign up for the card again. Yeah, right!

When she complained they offered her 3K miles and told her to get lost.

What can/should she do?

mia

This doesn't matter. American Express will honor the terms of the offer. Terms from other offers are not relevant. Does she still have the email? Did she apply through the link in that email?

For reference, the once-in-a lifetime terms began appearing in personal card offers in May of 2014. It is possible that your wife recently received a targeted offer without those terms, but the terms didn't change after she received the offer (unless you are just now reporting something that occurred a couple years back). This is the critical sentence:

This offer is also not available to applicants who have or have had this product.

edealinfo12345

dump Amex

jakemalloy

She has had the card before - and the application is new-ish - so I suspect she is entrapped by the TOS. Any other ideas - she feels duped - after all, why email her an offer she is not qualified to receive? She spent the money under the false assumption she was eligible.

Happy

Sorry to point it out but here is the scope.

It is her own fault not reading the fine print to make sure she is qualified for the bonus because if that critical sentence is in the fine print and then AMEX is in the right as it has warned the applicant the condition of receiving a bonus. Your wife is in no way being duped. Blame her or you not spend time to read the fine prints.

Dont you need to check a box to acknowledge you have read the T&Cs before the website even allows you to click the Submit button? The T&Cs are legally binding.

jakemalloy

If you think soliciting someone with an offer they are not qualified to receive, and burying the restriction in the "fine print" is ethical and good business practice then you have a low standard. While the T&C;s may be legally binding, the entire practice is an underhanded technique to confuse people and lure them into a product they dont want under false pretenses.

She cancelled the card. As did I. We both got Chase Sapphire Preferred Reserve cards tonight.

mia

I agree that card issuers should not send offers to current or previous cardholders if they are ineligible, but if you think Chase or Citi will not do the same you will be disappointed. It is always our responsibility to read the so-called fine print, which in most American Express offers is prominent bold print.