BA Executive Club Devaluation
Sep 2, 2011, 2:50 am
#1
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Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3
BA Executive Club Devaluation
Hello, I am not sure if any of you are aware of the BAEC devaluation that was announced today, although not officially announced but it is likely US members particularly those in the West coast will suffer massive devaluation if you plan on using Partner airlines. And it appears to be exactly opposite for European based travelers.
If you follow the thread on the BA board, it is quite sickening to read some of these European based travelers are seemingly GLEEFUL over the predicament of some of the US based travelers who has transferred large # of MR points to the BA program based on the old award charts.
Specifically, for example, a award redemption from SFO to HKG on CX economy would have cost 50K BA miles, now it will at best increase to 80K AVio or At wost 120K Avio. That is a 30% to 60% devaluation overnight. NOT ACCEPTABLE.
I think the right thing for BA to do is to grandfather the old miles or allow people to reverse their transfers that took place last 6 months for miles not used.
Because I would not have transferred any of my MR points knowing what I do now, this is bait and switch.
To make things worse, it's obvious BA has been working on this change for a while but just 1 month ago, they ran the 50% MR transfer bonus. BA knew this was coming but yet , they lured people to transfer MR points, who are mostly US based members to transfer their points into a program scheme that they are going to change in 2 months!
Honestly, I see no difference between what BA has done than some of the banks writing and KNOWINGLY giving bad loans in the Sub-prime crisis.
I urge EVERYBODY who has been damaged by this to write American Express asap.
If you follow the thread on the BA board, it is quite sickening to read some of these European based travelers are seemingly GLEEFUL over the predicament of some of the US based travelers who has transferred large # of MR points to the BA program based on the old award charts.
Specifically, for example, a award redemption from SFO to HKG on CX economy would have cost 50K BA miles, now it will at best increase to 80K AVio or At wost 120K Avio. That is a 30% to 60% devaluation overnight. NOT ACCEPTABLE.
I think the right thing for BA to do is to grandfather the old miles or allow people to reverse their transfers that took place last 6 months for miles not used.
Because I would not have transferred any of my MR points knowing what I do now, this is bait and switch.
To make things worse, it's obvious BA has been working on this change for a while but just 1 month ago, they ran the 50% MR transfer bonus. BA knew this was coming but yet , they lured people to transfer MR points, who are mostly US based members to transfer their points into a program scheme that they are going to change in 2 months!
Honestly, I see no difference between what BA has done than some of the banks writing and KNOWINGLY giving bad loans in the Sub-prime crisis.
I urge EVERYBODY who has been damaged by this to write American Express asap.
Last edited by mia; Sep 10, 2011 at 11:39 am
Sep 2, 2011, 3:03 am
#2
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC (Gold), Hilton (Gold)
Posts: 4,168
These miles have not been devalued. You are peddling, at best, misinformation.
The BA announcement is perfectly clear and your 'claim' of devaluation is based solely on extrapolation, not on hard facts.
The hard facts are that for most people mileage redemptions have stayed the same or gone down.
If you want a HARD FACT example, then a redemption in First Class from LHR > NRT return has gone down by 25%. There are many more examples like this.
If you're going to post then make sure you get your facts right.
BAH
The BA announcement is perfectly clear and your 'claim' of devaluation is based solely on extrapolation, not on hard facts.
The hard facts are that for most people mileage redemptions have stayed the same or gone down.
If you want a HARD FACT example, then a redemption in First Class from LHR > NRT return has gone down by 25%. There are many more examples like this.
If you're going to post then make sure you get your facts right.
BAH
Sep 2, 2011, 3:31 am
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
Look, I agree with you that the OP's rant is over the top, but the BA announcement is hardly "clear." A clear announcement would have actual award charts; instead, what we have is an absurd fan-dance, where the website serves up award costs on selected routes (and the BAEC rep gives out info in dribs and drabs on FT) without giving a clear indication of the actual plan.
If you assemble the various clews strewn about, it seems that the new BA/BA+1/single-partner award chart will be distance based. Did the BAEC rep come out and say this clearly? No. Are we told what the zone mileage levels will be? No. This is anything but clear, and BA's decision to proceed in this overly coy manner has led predictably to suspicion and mistrust. If the last few years teach anything, it is that when a FFP rolls out "changes you'll like" without full details, it's usually a PR stunt to sugar-coat the nasty bits in the offing.
Mods, feel free to move us all over to the BA forum, where this probably belongs.
If you assemble the various clews strewn about, it seems that the new BA/BA+1/single-partner award chart will be distance based. Did the BAEC rep come out and say this clearly? No. Are we told what the zone mileage levels will be? No. This is anything but clear, and BA's decision to proceed in this overly coy manner has led predictably to suspicion and mistrust. If the last few years teach anything, it is that when a FFP rolls out "changes you'll like" without full details, it's usually a PR stunt to sugar-coat the nasty bits in the offing.
Mods, feel free to move us all over to the BA forum, where this probably belongs.
Sep 2, 2011, 5:35 am
#6
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: SPG-Plat, Hilton-Diamond, Club Carlson-Silver, Cathay-Diamond, Virgin-Gold
Posts: 2,183
Have to say I am one of those UK based travellers who do not see the issue! From our point of view since the launch of the huge giveaways to North American in points and transfer bonuses our redemption options have shruck considerably.
I have to say I do not think Amex will be bothered about these changes as the just offer the chance to transfer points to another scheme that has nothing to do with them, it is up to BA how they run the scheme!
The scheme in question specifies in its t&c's that it can change it with little notice and the miles actually have no real world value. This on top of the fact it was pretty clear that something would be changing with the merger with IB.
It could also be argued that the current scheme was far to generous travellers outside of Europe with the way miles could be used and it was simply not possible to continue running it at that level!
Most of the above is working on the assumption that the changes are as bad as the negative posters think rather than as others have pointed out any actual facts! Should BA have released more information possibly, but maybe the fact they are giving information several months in advance allows people to decide if they wish to transfer more points to it, make bookings now or hold off and wait!
Imagine if they had announced that in 5 days it was all changing and didnt give you any chance to spend at the current rates, as it is you have 2-3 months to spend if you desire at current rates!
I have to say I do not think Amex will be bothered about these changes as the just offer the chance to transfer points to another scheme that has nothing to do with them, it is up to BA how they run the scheme!
The scheme in question specifies in its t&c's that it can change it with little notice and the miles actually have no real world value. This on top of the fact it was pretty clear that something would be changing with the merger with IB.
It could also be argued that the current scheme was far to generous travellers outside of Europe with the way miles could be used and it was simply not possible to continue running it at that level!
Most of the above is working on the assumption that the changes are as bad as the negative posters think rather than as others have pointed out any actual facts! Should BA have released more information possibly, but maybe the fact they are giving information several months in advance allows people to decide if they wish to transfer more points to it, make bookings now or hold off and wait!
Imagine if they had announced that in 5 days it was all changing and didnt give you any chance to spend at the current rates, as it is you have 2-3 months to spend if you desire at current rates!
Sep 2, 2011, 11:41 am
#7
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 7
He might have been "jumping the gun" but this morning a BA Rep confirmed 95% of what he said. I will be contacting Amex hence forth as well.
http://thepointsguy.com/2011/09/brit...r-award-chart/
http://thepointsguy.com/2011/09/brit...r-award-chart/
Last edited by mia; Sep 2, 2011 at 4:03 pm Reason: Combine two consecutive replies
Sep 2, 2011, 1:27 pm
#8
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,908
Right now we here in NA redeem BA miles largely for single partner awards such as CX to Asia, AA to South America etc. We do not compete with folks based in europe for those award seats (unless you route your travel to those regions via US which is unlikely).
Now those good value single partner awards are going away and UA members with all those credit card miles will be redeeming on the very same LHR-North America routes you normally seek. Credit card miles are not going away but now (unlike the past) they will be diluting the pool of your hard earned BIS miles. You chances to find available seats are about to go down. A lot. Even though your award table isn't changing.
Cheers.
Sep 2, 2011, 2:19 pm
#9
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: Delta DM, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, MTA Rust, Hertz Five Star something or other
Posts: 2,858
Just because it doesn't impact you doesn't mean it doesn't exist, don't you think? But wait, here is more - let me explain how it will impact you soon.
Right now we here in NA redeem BA miles largely for single partner awards such as CX to Asia, AA to South America etc. We do not compete with folks based in europe for those award seats (unless you route your travel to those regions via US which is unlikely).
Now those good value single partner awards are going away and UA members with all those credit card miles will be redeeming on the very same LHR-North America routes you normally seek. Credit card miles are not going away but now (unlike the past) they will be diluting the pool of your hard earned BIS miles. You chances to find available seats are about to go down. A lot. Even though your award table isn't changing.
Cheers.
Right now we here in NA redeem BA miles largely for single partner awards such as CX to Asia, AA to South America etc. We do not compete with folks based in europe for those award seats (unless you route your travel to those regions via US which is unlikely).
Now those good value single partner awards are going away and UA members with all those credit card miles will be redeeming on the very same LHR-North America routes you normally seek. Credit card miles are not going away but now (unlike the past) they will be diluting the pool of your hard earned BIS miles. You chances to find available seats are about to go down. A lot. Even though your award table isn't changing.
Cheers.
Sep 2, 2011, 3:09 pm
#10
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 7
Bingo! I love BA first, but usually opt for partners due to mile/fee cost. All things being equal MANY more people will be redeeming their huge stacks of BA miles on premium BA awards across the pond. This is also a huge devaluation for the Europeans, though they may not see it yet.
Sep 2, 2011, 3:18 pm
#11
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North America
Posts: 2,265
I agree with castcore1212 about the grandfather suggestion. Grandfathering pre-existing BA Miles under the current rules will calm the masses and it will be the right thing to do IF there are negative changes on the way for partner redemptions.
Sep 2, 2011, 3:28 pm
#12
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: SPG-Plat, Hilton-Diamond, Club Carlson-Silver, Cathay-Diamond, Virgin-Gold
Posts: 2,183
Just because it doesn't impact you doesn't mean it doesn't exist, don't you think? But wait, here is more - let me explain how it will impact you soon.
Right now we here in NA redeem BA miles largely for single partner awards such as CX to Asia, AA to South America etc. We do not compete with folks based in europe for those award seats (unless you route your travel to those regions via US which is unlikely).
Now those good value single partner awards are going away and UA members with all those credit card miles will be redeeming on the very same LHR-North America routes you normally seek. Credit card miles are not going away but now (unlike the past) they will be diluting the pool of your hard earned BIS miles. You chances to find available seats are about to go down. A lot. Even though your award table isn't changing.
Cheers.
Right now we here in NA redeem BA miles largely for single partner awards such as CX to Asia, AA to South America etc. We do not compete with folks based in europe for those award seats (unless you route your travel to those regions via US which is unlikely).
Now those good value single partner awards are going away and UA members with all those credit card miles will be redeeming on the very same LHR-North America routes you normally seek. Credit card miles are not going away but now (unlike the past) they will be diluting the pool of your hard earned BIS miles. You chances to find available seats are about to go down. A lot. Even though your award table isn't changing.
Cheers.
I am also curion though can you provide the link to the BA website or confirmed information that actually says what your describing above is actually going to happen?
Sep 2, 2011, 3:33 pm
#13
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 7
Thats strange because a lot of People seem to also take BA to Asia via London, not just CX etc which si already using up the reward seats!
I am also curion though can you provide the link to the BA website or confirmed information that actually says what your describing above is actually going to happen?
I am also curion though can you provide the link to the BA website or confirmed information that actually says what your describing above is actually going to happen?
NOBODY from the US take BA to ASIA via London unless they HAVE TO! For sure not hte west coast people. But now US member, armed with millions of miles from their CCs will be using them in Europe for the best value. I am sure guys like the TPG will be advocating that as the BEST VALUE now that partner awards are useless.
Sep 2, 2011, 3:37 pm
#14
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Sep 2, 2011, 3:38 pm
#15
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: SPG-Plat, Hilton-Diamond, Club Carlson-Silver, Cathay-Diamond, Virgin-Gold
Posts: 2,183
NOBODY from the US take BA to ASIA via London unless they HAVE TO! For sure not hte west coast people. But now US member, armed with millions of miles from their CCs will be using them in Europe for the best value. I am sure guys like the TPG will be advocating that as the BEST VALUE now that partner awards are useless.
As for getting best value I find it stange that someone who travels to Asia and obviosuly wants to travel to Asia would decide to go to Europe instead due to a possible increase in miles that actually has not even been confirmed or if so by how much! I think its called jumping the gun!