oneant

Interesting. And how hard is AA trying in the PDB department?

sluggoaafa

LOL, since the memo still isn't out yet...guess they aren't trying too hard

flymdcub

Im not a FA for AA but I am one with a major carrier and there have been times I have not done PDBs because A) The Galley wasnt boarded yet or boarded late and would delay the flight (cause god knows pax dont start getting irritated if the flight is delayed 1 min) B) the flight is delayed coming in and we have to get the aircraft out quick. What pax forget is that when Im in the aisle doing PBDs pax cant get past me easily and me doing a PDB service could delay the flight more since im blocking boarding. I usually explain to my pax that I wont be able to provide them with a PDB and will be happy to get them anything once we are airborne

jeffreyt

There is really nothing funny about inferior, non-competitive service and absolutely no reason to wait for a memo to only reconfirm what policy is. Good flight attendants - and there are plenty of those on AA - don't wait for memos. They just do it because they know they need to be competitive.

jeffreyt

We're not talking about delays. Reasonable people who have boarded a flight 10 minutes late most likely don't expect a PDB. We're talking about consistency and standards. If a flight boards normally, you can be guaranteed of a PDB on a competitve carrier. With AA, there is no guaranteee. Communication, either way, is nice or appreciated. Thanks for doing that on your carrier.

sluggoaafa

Well, since it was mentioned that a memo was suppose to have come out today, Yes, I was waiting anxiously to see what it had to offer.

As per the comment about Good flight attendants, my I re-direct you to another FTer's comment...here.

The FAs that do a PDB do it because they know it's Policy to do them. As AAFA has stated in this post, and in this post, there may be different circumstances preventing a PDB.

Yet, no one has come forward to explain how the other carriers are capable of consistantly providing PDBs, other than...they just do.

jeffreyt

That's a fair request. I think how the others do it - specifically DL - is they don't stand around talking to each other or complaining about their schedules, etc. THey just go out and do it. A lot of this thread has been focused on excuses and reasons for not doing it. The reality is that a lot of us fly and see those excuses are just that... excuses. Sure... there are reasonable exceptions to the PDB. But we're talking about the inconsistencies beiing the norm at AA here. The flight crew on AA can control that. I'm personally fine being offered a choice of OJ, Water, or Champagne. What amazes me is that DL has consistently offered anything you want for as long as I've been flying them regularly (still more than 50,000 miles per year even though I give AA more than 100,000 miles annually). Since I moved over to AA about 5 or so years ago its always been like this. Based on the several private emails I have received over this thread, and those that have contributed here, I find there are a huge number of customers who agree with me. We don't appreciate jokes or excuses about it. We'd just like the flight attendants to do their jobs. Sadly, no one is held accountable. But this issue comes up all the time here. That says something.

Is this something I would leave AA over? No. But it is extremely irritiating that I have some really good friends as FA on regular routes (LAX-BNA, LAX-JFK, BUR-DFW, and LAX-EWR) who provide consistent, excellent service every time, every month, for the last several years, only to have others that think of ways to get out of doing something because they are off the clock. With AA, thats more the norm than not.

I'm through beating the poor horse. It's dead now.

brp

Well, to reiterate sluggo's point and question- how do these other FAs manage to go back and forth to the galley multiple times while people are boarding on narrow-body aircraft? When I've boarded in F and people are boarding, I don't see how FAs would be able (physically) to do this as people are boarding with rollaboards that fill the aisle. If they made people wait each time they went back and forth, it would work, but it would significantly delay boarding. I don't fly these other airlines that are able to do this on every flight, so I really don't know how they physically manage to walk through all those people. Very curious as to the mechanism.

(I am not using this as an excuse for people to avoid doing their job, and my own opinions about the importance of this perk are explicitly excluded from this post )

Cheers.

vasantn

I honestly don't know how they do it; they just do. I consistently flew 100K miles a year on DL between 1998 and 2003, and still fly DL from time to time. In hundreds of flights I can't recall not being offered my choice of beverage within minutes of being seated. Next time I'll observe more closely. As I mentioned before, on 757s being boarded through 2L it's very easy, but one gets the same service on other aircraft as well.

jeffreyt

Actually, based on my observations, its an easy answer. There are always gaps in the queue boarding until the GA has dumped all the remaining zones on the flight. If they start greeting people when the first boarding is complete, getting the coats, etc, taking beverage requests, it usually works well, with the occassional stepping out of the aisle may or may not be needed. I would argue that the velocity at which people are sent downt the jetway probably affects that. I've definitely seen 50-75 people be thrown down the jetway at once, and that's definitely going to create a bottle neck in F and on board.

But, if the flight attendant brings out a tray full of OJ, water,and Champagne, it actually means less trips back and forth. Delta's usually 2-4 people at a time on a small try.

But again... we're talking about consistent results and not just one flight.

AAFA

Can we get a sticky once and for all stating that Predepartures are expected and aren't always produced so we can kill this subject once and for all?

Here's what we always learn:

1. Predepartures are expected on all AA flights if time and catering permit. AFS,LFS,IFS,TFS flights offer only OJ, water, champagne, mimosa for predepartures. Narrowbody and non flagship flights should have all choices available, when able. If there is a shortage of time than water and oj are acceptable.

2. PDB's are technically, according to AA, supposed to be delivered and picked up by the time the door to the aircraft is closed.

3. Certain cities have certain alcohol restrictions for PDB's.
Cleveland (CLE)
Columbus (CMH)
Dayton (DAY)
Harrisburg (MDT)
Hartford (BDL)
Jackson Hole (JAC)
Philadelphia (PHL)
Pittsburgh (PIT)
Wichita (ICT)
all Texas locations prior to noon on Sundays
On Hawaii flights, liquor carts are to only be opened after takeoff

4. Predepartures on AA are inconsistent.

5. Catering is inconsistent on AA and late catering may prevent predepartures from occurring on many AA non flagship flights. Flagship flights are generally not boarded until catering has been completed.

6. Some flight attendants REFUSE to do PDB's Regardless if they were catered 2 hours before departure and regardless of how long the boarding period is.

7. AA corporate needs to come up with a better plan to make sure their PDB service is offered more. One of the ways is to redesign the boarding process and change doors used for boarding.

vasantn

AAFA, a wonderful summary. Thank you. I mean that sincerely. I agree that this should probably be a sticky.

oneant

Another way would be to "attitude adjust" the folks in #6.

Another way would be to find out how the competitors are doing it, stop making excuses for why AA doesn't do it as well, just admit "They got us there. We certainly have room for improvement," and work to better the PDB percentage. The "Technically, I'm not getting paid 'til that door closes" attitude just reeks of a lack of pride. It's a good thing there's a union, because someone like that would be let go in a normal job.

But I think a sticky would be a great idea. ^ Perhaps even put a link at the bottom to an AA.com page where those who feel they must further complain can do so directly to AA instead of here.

sluggoaafa

Here lies the problem.

NO ONE has made the suggestion of how the competitors are doing it. The only thing I've really seen is they just do it.

I've only just read one possible way, and that was by jeffreyt with DL and possible gaps in the boarding process. I know when I'm in MIA, the boarding tends to be less cumbersome and relaxed...but the only times I've been in MIA are on the 762 or the A300 doing the JFK-MIA turns.

Still doesn't give a good feel for the MD-80s and/or the 737. I do know that the only times I haven't done PDBs on the Transcons are when departure is already behind scheduled time and we just want to get the plane off the gate and ready to go. (although we sometimes do get the OJ/Water/champagne out)

I do wish that AA would always board the 757s, 777s and A300s via the 2L door, we could nail those in the bud right there, but for some reason, the excuse that we as FAs receive from AA is 1) agents are scared to get the jetbridge close to the engines. (yet EWR and SAN agents do it without fail for the 757s) 2) the connection for the lav is close where the jetbridge comes to and the lav truck can't always back up to the plane when the bridge is in the way (yet EWR and SAN are always capable for the 757s).

everyone here already knows where to complain to. If not, the link is aa.com/customerrelations.

I keep seeing hints that attitudes like "well we don't get paid until the door closes" etc. are just excuses, lack of pride in job, or you would be let go in a non union job.

All I have to say is if I, AAFA, Skylady, or even AEpilot76 didn't have Pride in our jobs, we wouldn't acknowledge that we were with AA/AE, or even be wasting our time here on Flyertalk conversing with our pax.

Yet, we are here learning what our pax want/value the most. Sure, we may not all agree on the same things, but we, the employees, do take Pride in our company, and we do care what others are saying. Maybe we care too much, and that's why we try to throw simple excuses for the lack of Pride of others.

I think I can say for all of us that we don't appreciate the laziness of our fellow employees. That is why we go above and beyond...to make them look bad.

ESpen36

...along with a bunch of international destinations, where, as with Hawaii, the liquor carts cannot be unsealed until after takeoff.