Jul 29, 2014, 10:15 am
Last edit by: Prospero
This thread is dedicated to issues around American Airlines Corporate Security, AAdvantage Fraud division (AKA "Revenue Protection Unit"), and its enforcement of the AAdvantage Terms and Conditions - particularly to selling, buying and bartering awards, miles, upgrades and other instruments - and related issues.
It is okay at this time to gift awards, upgrades, etc. as long as there is absolutely no quid pro quo (no buying or selling or offer to do so, no barter or trade "you give me one now I'll give it back" or anything smacking of prohibited activity. AA is probably the strictest of the US airlines about this. They have a very active and expert AAdvantage Fraud division of the AA Corporate Fraud department, and they can both be aggressive and, some might say merciless - clawing back one's miles and instruments, even closing one's account and terminating status and ability to participate in the AAdvantage program n the future.
There are other ways to commit fraud in AA’s eyes, such as fictitious or fraudulent bookings to try to block seats to increase one’s chances if upgrades, generating tickets to access airside facilities (e.g. lounges) when there is no intent to fly, etc.
To read an example of how the US Department of Transportation has rules on punitive actions by AA, read Joel Hayes vs. American Airlines here (PDF).
Please read on for information and the consensus of knowledgeable members.
Also see AAdvantage Program Terms and Conditions and
American Airlines Conditions of Carriage.
The typical email from AA Corporate Security can not be addressed by calling AAdvantage Customer Service or other methods - you must reply to the email address given. It likely will look like this:
Excellent summaries of information (based on the sum of experiences we have seen in this thread over time) of how to respond:
From JonNYC, our resident expert on this:
Older posts have been archived to the
archived thread.
A number of posts regarding AA's confiscation of 60,000 miles from "Mr. Hayes" for allegedly making "fictitious" bookings in search of whether his upgrade would be likely to progress or not, AA IT issues that might have led to this (or not), AA's replies and the USDOT complaint have been moved to a new thread: Hayes, USDOT and AA: "fictitious bookings" and checking upgrades.
NOTE: Posts about members experiencing account security breaches, fraud, theft of awards and instruments have moved to Account fraud / breach: my account compromised, awards stolen, etc..
It is okay at this time to gift awards, upgrades, etc. as long as there is absolutely no quid pro quo (no buying or selling or offer to do so, no barter or trade "you give me one now I'll give it back" or anything smacking of prohibited activity. AA is probably the strictest of the US airlines about this. They have a very active and expert AAdvantage Fraud division of the AA Corporate Fraud department, and they can both be aggressive and, some might say merciless - clawing back one's miles and instruments, even closing one's account and terminating status and ability to participate in the AAdvantage program n the future.
There are other ways to commit fraud in AA’s eyes, such as fictitious or fraudulent bookings to try to block seats to increase one’s chances if upgrades, generating tickets to access airside facilities (e.g. lounges) when there is no intent to fly, etc.
To read an example of how the US Department of Transportation has rules on punitive actions by AA, read Joel Hayes vs. American Airlines here (PDF).
Please read on for information and the consensus of knowledgeable members.
E.g. AAdvantage Terms and Conditions excerpt: "At no time may AAdvantage mileage credit or award tickets be purchased, sold, advertised for sale or bartered (including but not limited to transferring, gifting, or promising mileage credit or award tickets in exchange for support of a certain business, product or charity and/or participation in an auction, sweepstakes, raffle or contest). Any such mileage or tickets are void if transferred for cash or other consideration. Violators (including any passenger who uses a purchased or bartered award ticket) may be liable for damages and litigation costs, including American Airlines attorneys’ fees incurred in enforcing this rule." (This extends to other AA instruments such as Systemwide Upgrades, etc., selling of extra AirPass seats or baggage allowance, etc.)
American Airlines Conditions of Carriage.
<snip>"While you may consider the AAdvantage Miles in your account to be *your* property, they are actually the property of AA, and AA permits you to redeem them within the program rules set by AA. If AA detects any impropriety (real or perceived) in the use of AAdvantage miles, they reserve the right to confiscate the miles and/or close/delete the account."...
My name is Fname Lname, and I am an analyst with American Airlines. One of my responsibilities is investigating possible instances of fraud, misrepresentation, and violations of the General AAdvantage Program Conditions. Today, I’m writing you about your AAdvantage account # XXXXXXXX
We have reason to believe that the transactions listed below violate one or more of the AAdvantage program conditions. This includes, but is not limited to, prohibition of purchase, sale, or barter of mileage credit and or award tickets. As a result, American Airlines has suspended your AAdvantage membership privileges and use of AA.com® in conjunction with your account – and may terminate your account as a result of our findings. We are in the process of completing the investigation into this matter, and I would like to hear the events as they occurred from your perspective. Please respond to this message by <date> with complete and accurate information regarding the activities listed below:
<specific activity /activities in question>
Required Information:·
To protect and retain the integrity of the AAdvantage program, it is vital that firm action be taken as a result of any violation of the AAdvantage Program Conditions, whether intentional or not. Failure to respond completely and accurately by <insert date>, will result in the termination of your AAdvantage membership and all its benefits, including all remaining AAdvantage miles in your account and any award tickets issued from it. Please, understand that our overall motivation is to preserve the benefits of the AAdvantage program, rather than to take punitive action against individuals. To that end, it’s not unusual for us to release the AAdvantage account suspension once we receive all the detail we request and reconcile it with the results of our investigation. We hope to hear from you soon.
Regards,
Fname Lname, etc.
We have reason to believe that the transactions listed below violate one or more of the AAdvantage program conditions. This includes, but is not limited to, prohibition of purchase, sale, or barter of mileage credit and or award tickets. As a result, American Airlines has suspended your AAdvantage membership privileges and use of AA.com® in conjunction with your account – and may terminate your account as a result of our findings. We are in the process of completing the investigation into this matter, and I would like to hear the events as they occurred from your perspective. Please respond to this message by <date> with complete and accurate information regarding the activities listed below:
<specific activity /activities in question>
Required Information:·
- Passenger name·
- Origin and destination cities on the travel itinerary·
- Purchaser name (individual, company and/or website), including:·
- Copy of any advertisements to which you responded offering to purchase/broker the use of your AAdvantage miles·
- Purchaser contact information, such as:·
- Mailing address·
- Email address·
- Telephone number·
- Website profile name·
- Your statement fully disclosing the details surrounding the sale/barter transaction referenced above·
- Copy of all communication between yourself and the purchaser·
- Documentation that you received payment
- Copy of all communication between yourself and the purchaser·
- Your statement fully disclosing the details surrounding the sale/barter transaction referenced above·
- Website profile name·
- Telephone number·
- Email address·
- Mailing address·
- Purchaser contact information, such as:·
- Copy of any advertisements to which you responded offering to purchase/broker the use of your AAdvantage miles·
- Purchaser name (individual, company and/or website), including:·
- Origin and destination cities on the travel itinerary·
To protect and retain the integrity of the AAdvantage program, it is vital that firm action be taken as a result of any violation of the AAdvantage Program Conditions, whether intentional or not. Failure to respond completely and accurately by <insert date>, will result in the termination of your AAdvantage membership and all its benefits, including all remaining AAdvantage miles in your account and any award tickets issued from it. Please, understand that our overall motivation is to preserve the benefits of the AAdvantage program, rather than to take punitive action against individuals. To that end, it’s not unusual for us to release the AAdvantage account suspension once we receive all the detail we request and reconcile it with the results of our investigation. We hope to hear from you soon.
Regards,
Fname Lname, etc.
Blogger Gary Leff: "If you made that mistake and got caught, American usually will go light on first-time offenders provided that they ‘come clean’ and are forthcoming about whom a systemwide was sold to or purchased from and what the terms were. They are most interested in serial brokers and are willing to ‘plea bargain’ with minor offenders to get the Evip-lords. There may be a consequence but it should fall short of account shutdown and forfeiture of miles." Link
I am going to try and provide a summary of the advice. For the record, this is 90% from Jon (JonNYC) and a little bit from other comments and circumstances, I am just trying to provide an easy summary, without all the explanations and reasons. I am happy to have others update/correct.
1. Respond to the questions in the email which you received. Don't try to call or email that person, or anyone else, at AA or DOT or whatever. Just answer the email.
2. Answer every question, in detail, with the facts. Don't use sarcasm or "you should know" or anything else that sounds like to you are avoiding the exact question being asked.
3. Assume that they know more about the true facts than you do. It might not always be true, but in most cases they have way more information than you might assume. So go back to #2, above.
4. If you did ANYTHING that was wrong (not under your interpretation of what you think the rules should be, but based on what the rules actually say) then, if you want to continue to participate in the AAdvantage program, tell them about your error and tell them that you are prepared to pay a correct penalty for your mistake (miles/status/etc) and then go back to #2, above.
1. Respond to the questions in the email which you received. Don't try to call or email that person, or anyone else, at AA or DOT or whatever. Just answer the email.
2. Answer every question, in detail, with the facts. Don't use sarcasm or "you should know" or anything else that sounds like to you are avoiding the exact question being asked.
3. Assume that they know more about the true facts than you do. It might not always be true, but in most cases they have way more information than you might assume. So go back to #2, above.
4. If you did ANYTHING that was wrong (not under your interpretation of what you think the rules should be, but based on what the rules actually say) then, if you want to continue to participate in the AAdvantage program, tell them about your error and tell them that you are prepared to pay a correct penalty for your mistake (miles/status/etc) and then go back to #2, above.
Perfect and 100%.
<snip>
The analysts that do this for a living have the same reactions that any humans do to being lied to and/or condescended to. Therefore, as well as being 100% truthful, go out of your way NOT to be:
-condescending
-brusque
-sharp, terse and/or sounding like you're being inconvenienced
-insulting
-just generally slippery, aloof, evasive and unforthcoming. As mentioned; they know more than you think they do. Always.
DO be apologetic, contrite and extremely cooperative.
Finally, any version of "...in which case, I'll be emailing [insert name or department here] to tell them how I, a [insert years flying AA, status, MMer, $$ spent, etc] customer is being treated" and/or mention of your lawyer, DOT, Chris Elliot (
), this forum, any blogger, etc. DO NOT DO THIS.
<snip>
The analysts that do this for a living have the same reactions that any humans do to being lied to and/or condescended to. Therefore, as well as being 100% truthful, go out of your way NOT to be:
-condescending
-brusque
-sharp, terse and/or sounding like you're being inconvenienced
-insulting
-just generally slippery, aloof, evasive and unforthcoming. As mentioned; they know more than you think they do. Always.
DO be apologetic, contrite and extremely cooperative.
Finally, any version of "...in which case, I'll be emailing [insert name or department here] to tell them how I, a [insert years flying AA, status, MMer, $$ spent, etc] customer is being treated" and/or mention of your lawyer, DOT, Chris Elliot (
), this forum, any blogger, etc. DO NOT DO THIS.archived thread.
A number of posts regarding AA's confiscation of 60,000 miles from "Mr. Hayes" for allegedly making "fictitious" bookings in search of whether his upgrade would be likely to progress or not, AA IT issues that might have led to this (or not), AA's replies and the USDOT complaint have been moved to a new thread: Hayes, USDOT and AA: "fictitious bookings" and checking upgrades.
NOTE: Posts about members experiencing account security breaches, fraud, theft of awards and instruments have moved to Account fraud / breach: my account compromised, awards stolen, etc..
Account audit / blocked / fraud: award / miles / SWU / sale, barter, etc.
Apr 30, 2018, 9:51 am
#556
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Maybe, Uncle Nonny, it’s more of “I did kill someone, but it wasn’t the person you think, nor was it in your jurisdiction”. 
Thanks a lot, papayasalad, for sharing with us. I think now we get it @:-).
One way to attempt to follow up with AA, given the RP unit doesn’t exactly advertise how to contact it, might initially be through AAdvantage Customer Service, but it might be best to try using the original email originating addrsss. And, who knows, you might be able to carry this out. AA does in fact have this reputation, and there are members here who have suffered from trading or bartering award travel, etc. - and it’s well known here in this forum and on FlyerTalk.
I fully respect your priorities and the choices you made.
But I’ll have to say I’ve found 500,000 miles pretty useful: one way travel after a cruise, when otherwise transatlantic one way travel cost so much it’d be cheaper to buy a round trip and throw away the return; gifting travel to family (my niece and her kids, my sister, my nephew when he did a six month internship as a dive instructor on a liveaboard in Fiji; etc.) and friends (enabling a FTer who did a fellowship with Kiva to Travel to and from SE Asia; enabling a young woman who couldn’t afford to go to Perú on a volunteer trip to build low income housing; gifting friends a F trip to BKK on their honeymoon; allowing me to send a chef friend, wife and children home to Europe when the restaurant employing him failed and left him essentially penniless; etc.)
Well, that’s actually over 5.5 million miles I earned, but 500k still renders value - the last award was returning from a transatlantic cruise to Lisbon in Business LIS-PHL-SFO for 57,500 miles per person on AA for two of us earlier this month, the next to KEF to catch our next cruise. And to LIS for the transatlantic this November. Awards to DPS and back from HKG for our 25 day cruise in that part of the world early next year. All in Business. (My wife has Alzheimer’s disease, so our mode of travel has changed significantly, but we’ll continue as long as she wants to and as long as we can make memories, even if they might be fleeting for her.)
I mention these because it appears we might have similar interests, in regards to using miles as gifts of travel to others, and to point out that though it’s become more challenging to secure AA awards it can still be done.
Thanks a lot, papayasalad, for sharing with us. I think now we get it @:-).
One way to attempt to follow up with AA, given the RP unit doesn’t exactly advertise how to contact it, might initially be through AAdvantage Customer Service, but it might be best to try using the original email originating addrsss. And, who knows, you might be able to carry this out. AA does in fact have this reputation, and there are members here who have suffered from trading or bartering award travel, etc. - and it’s well known here in this forum and on FlyerTalk.
I fully respect your priorities and the choices you made.
But I’ll have to say I’ve found 500,000 miles pretty useful: one way travel after a cruise, when otherwise transatlantic one way travel cost so much it’d be cheaper to buy a round trip and throw away the return; gifting travel to family (my niece and her kids, my sister, my nephew when he did a six month internship as a dive instructor on a liveaboard in Fiji; etc.) and friends (enabling a FTer who did a fellowship with Kiva to Travel to and from SE Asia; enabling a young woman who couldn’t afford to go to Perú on a volunteer trip to build low income housing; gifting friends a F trip to BKK on their honeymoon; allowing me to send a chef friend, wife and children home to Europe when the restaurant employing him failed and left him essentially penniless; etc.)
Well, that’s actually over 5.5 million miles I earned, but 500k still renders value - the last award was returning from a transatlantic cruise to Lisbon in Business LIS-PHL-SFO for 57,500 miles per person on AA for two of us earlier this month, the next to KEF to catch our next cruise. And to LIS for the transatlantic this November. Awards to DPS and back from HKG for our 25 day cruise in that part of the world early next year. All in Business. (My wife has Alzheimer’s disease, so our mode of travel has changed significantly, but we’ll continue as long as she wants to and as long as we can make memories, even if they might be fleeting for her.)
I mention these because it appears we might have similar interests, in regards to using miles as gifts of travel to others, and to point out that though it’s become more challenging to secure AA awards it can still be done.
Last edited by JDiver; Apr 30, 2018 at 3:59 pm Reason: Edit contact suggestion
Apr 30, 2018, 10:00 am
#557
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: NYC/LA
Programs: DL Plat, AA Plat Pro, Marriott Titanium, IHG Diamond Amb
Posts: 7,486
The link AA provided was a link to an online exchange market for people to buy and sell airline and hotel points. I traded more than 10 times in the past 7 years, including a number of airline and hotel programs, but AA miles was never on the list because I heard of AA's reputation of tracking this kind of activities.
Apr 30, 2018, 10:08 am
#558
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,816
So what's the threshold of AA finding that someone has contravened the rules? My mom is on limited income so I fly her out to the east coast three or four times a year - spending over 100,000 points last year and then 50,000 points this year. Ive also booked tickets for my girlfriend to fly between DCA and her parental home in BOS.
Does heightened activity necessarily create suspicion?
Does heightened activity necessarily create suspicion?
Apr 30, 2018, 10:10 am
#559
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: TPA/DFW/K15
Programs: AA EXP, Mar AMB, HH LT DIA
Posts: 1,652
2) The link AA provided was a link to an online exchange market for people to buy and sell airline and hotel points. I traded more than 10 times in the past 7 years, including a number of airline and hotel programs, but AA miles was never on the list because I heard of AA's reputation of tracking this kind of activities.
Apr 30, 2018, 10:14 am
#560
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AA PLT, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,405
So what's the threshold of AA finding that someone has contravened the rules? My mom is on limited income so I fly her out to the east coast three or four times a year - spending over 100,000 points last year and then 50,000 points this year. Ive also booked tickets for my girlfriend to fly between DCA and her parental home in BOS.
Does heightened activity necessarily create suspicion?
Does heightened activity necessarily create suspicion?
Apr 30, 2018, 10:18 am
#561
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Here and there
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,551
So what's the threshold of AA finding that someone has contravened the rules? My mom is on limited income so I fly her out to the east coast three or four times a year - spending over 100,000 points last year and then 50,000 points this year. Ive also booked tickets for my girlfriend to fly between DCA and her parental home in BOS.
Does heightened activity necessarily create suspicion?
Does heightened activity necessarily create suspicion?
Apr 30, 2018, 10:25 am
#562
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Dallas
Programs: AA PLT/5MM; AS MVP GLD 75K; DL DM; EK SLV; HHonors DIAM; Marriott GLD
Posts: 4,092
Apr 30, 2018, 11:10 am
#563
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
So what's the threshold of AA finding that someone has contravened the rules? My mom is on limited income so I fly her out to the east coast three or four times a year - spending over 100,000 points last year and then 50,000 points this year. Ive also booked tickets for my girlfriend to fly between DCA and her parental home in BOS.
Does heightened activity necessarily create suspicion?
Does heightened activity necessarily create suspicion?
When I book for others I usually tell the agent the relationship of whom I’m booking for. “My nephew, with an internship diving in Fiji.” “My friend, going to Cambodia to volunteer for Kiva, the non-profit microlending outfit.” Imo, but only an opinion, it may help allay suspicion. If RP wants to question me, I have no problems with that; my answers are easily verified.
Apr 30, 2018, 11:15 am
#564
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
So what's the threshold of AA finding that someone has contravened the rules? My mom is on limited income so I fly her out to the east coast three or four times a year - spending over 100,000 points last year and then 50,000 points this year. Ive also booked tickets for my girlfriend to fly between DCA and her parental home in BOS.
Does heightened activity necessarily create suspicion?
Does heightened activity necessarily create suspicion?
What creates suspicion, in this context, is offering (the) miles for sale on-line, either directly or via a conduit and/or actively participating in such trading with strangers.
Apr 30, 2018, 11:21 am
#565
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
So what's the threshold of AA finding that someone has contravened the rules? My mom is on limited income so I fly her out to the east coast three or four times a year - spending over 100,000 points last year and then 50,000 points this year. Ive also booked tickets for my girlfriend to fly between DCA and her parental home in BOS.
Does heightened activity necessarily create suspicion?
Does heightened activity necessarily create suspicion?
Beyond the obvious of advertising on eBay and dealing with a miles broker who sells the tickets he purchases with your miles is having something go wrong with one of those tickets and having that passenger start raising a stink about his ticket to AA.
It isn't in AA's interest to waste its resources or cause ill will for activity which is permitted.
Apr 30, 2018, 11:33 am
#566
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,403
The OP claims not to have offered AA miles for sale, but did he/she offer to sell US miles? That was asked earlier in this thread but not answered.
Apr 30, 2018, 11:36 am
#567
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
Posts: 12,753
Agreed. I often redeem miles for my law partner; never a peep from AA. Also, it would seem more suspicious to me to redeem for lots of different people than for the same person all the time.
Apr 30, 2018, 12:47 pm
#569
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
For the OP, this is the first time I recall anyone posting that AA didn't ask for information before assessing a penalty.
Logically, you'd agree that AA didn't randomly contact you and must have had some method of identifying you as a potential abuser of program rules. I don't believe, for example, that we've heard anyone post that United uncovered someone selling miles through a broker and turned that person into the other airlines.
For my two cents, I don't understand selling miles. It breaks the rules, hurts your fellow passengers, and ... seems like a really poor return.
Logically, you'd agree that AA didn't randomly contact you and must have had some method of identifying you as a potential abuser of program rules. I don't believe, for example, that we've heard anyone post that United uncovered someone selling miles through a broker and turned that person into the other airlines.
For my two cents, I don't understand selling miles. It breaks the rules, hurts your fellow passengers, and ... seems like a really poor return.
Apr 30, 2018, 1:07 pm
#570
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,403
AA would know if the person disclosed it, for example as part of a complaint: during IROPs, AA needs to downgrade the person, etc. and the passenger mentions that they paid good money for the SWU or award ticket and demand a premium cabin seat.