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Account audit / blocked / fraud: award / miles / SWU / sale, barter, etc.

Old Jul 29, 2014, 10:15 am
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Last edit by: Prospero
This thread is dedicated to issues around American Airlines Corporate Security, AAdvantage Fraud division (AKA "Revenue Protection Unit"), and its enforcement of the AAdvantage Terms and Conditions - particularly to selling, buying and bartering awards, miles, upgrades and other instruments - and related issues.

It is okay at this time to gift awards, upgrades, etc. as long as there is absolutely no quid pro quo (no buying or selling or offer to do so, no barter or trade "you give me one now I'll give it back" or anything smacking of prohibited activity. AA is probably the strictest of the US airlines about this. They have a very active and expert AAdvantage Fraud division of the AA Corporate Fraud department, and they can both be aggressive and, some might say merciless - clawing back one's miles and instruments, even closing one's account and terminating status and ability to participate in the AAdvantage program n the future.

There are other ways to commit fraud in AA’s eyes, such as fictitious or fraudulent bookings to try to block seats to increase one’s chances if upgrades, generating tickets to access airside facilities (e.g. lounges) when there is no intent to fly, etc.

To read an example of how the US Department of Transportation has rules on punitive actions by AA, read Joel Hayes vs. American Airlines here (PDF).

Please read on for information and the consensus of knowledgeable members.

E.g. AAdvantage Terms and Conditions excerpt: "At no time may AAdvantage mileage credit or award tickets be purchased, sold, advertised for sale or bartered (including but not limited to transferring, gifting, or promising mileage credit or award tickets in exchange for support of a certain business, product or charity and/or participation in an auction, sweepstakes, raffle or contest). Any such mileage or tickets are void if transferred for cash or other consideration. Violators (including any passenger who uses a purchased or bartered award ticket) may be liable for damages and litigation costs, including American Airlines attorneys’ fees incurred in enforcing this rule." (This extends to other AA instruments such as Systemwide Upgrades, etc., selling of extra AirPass seats or baggage allowance, etc.)
Also see AAdvantage Program Terms and Conditions and

American Airlines Conditions of Carriage.

Originally Posted by SS255
<snip>"While you may consider the AAdvantage Miles in your account to be *your* property, they are actually the property of AA, and AA permits you to redeem them within the program rules set by AA. If AA detects any impropriety (real or perceived) in the use of AAdvantage miles, they reserve the right to confiscate the miles and/or close/delete the account."...
The typical email from AA Corporate Security can not be addressed by calling AAdvantage Customer Service or other methods - you must reply to the email address given. It likely will look like this:

My name is Fname Lname, and I am an analyst with American Airlines. One of my responsibilities is investigating possible instances of fraud, misrepresentation, and violations of the General AAdvantage Program Conditions. Today, I’m writing you about your AAdvantage account # XXXXXXXX

We have reason to believe that the transactions listed below violate one or more of the AAdvantage program conditions. This includes, but is not limited to, prohibition of purchase, sale, or barter of mileage credit and or award tickets. As a result, American Airlines has suspended your AAdvantage membership privileges and use of AA.com® in conjunction with your account – and may terminate your account as a result of our findings. We are in the process of completing the investigation into this matter, and I would like to hear the events as they occurred from your perspective. Please respond to this message by <date> with complete and accurate information regarding the activities listed below:

<specific activity /activities in question>

Required Information:·
  • Passenger name·
    • Origin and destination cities on the travel itinerary·
      • Purchaser name (individual, company and/or website), including:·
        • Copy of any advertisements to which you responded offering to purchase/broker the use of your AAdvantage miles·
          • Purchaser contact information, such as:·
            • Mailing address·
              • Email address·
                • Telephone number·
                  • Website profile name·
                    • Your statement fully disclosing the details surrounding the sale/barter transaction referenced above·
                      • Copy of all communication between yourself and the purchaser·
                        • Documentation that you received payment


To protect and retain the integrity of the AAdvantage program, it is vital that firm action be taken as a result of any violation of the AAdvantage Program Conditions, whether intentional or not. Failure to respond completely and accurately by <insert date>, will result in the termination of your AAdvantage membership and all its benefits, including all remaining AAdvantage miles in your account and any award tickets issued from it. Please, understand that our overall motivation is to preserve the benefits of the AAdvantage program, rather than to take punitive action against individuals. To that end, it’s not unusual for us to release the AAdvantage account suspension once we receive all the detail we request and reconcile it with the results of our investigation. We hope to hear from you soon.

Regards,

Fname Lname, etc.
Excellent summaries of information (based on the sum of experiences we have seen in this thread over time) of how to respond:

Blogger Gary Leff: "If you made that mistake and got caught, American usually will go light on first-time offenders provided that they ‘come clean’ and are forthcoming about whom a systemwide was sold to or purchased from and what the terms were. They are most interested in serial brokers and are willing to ‘plea bargain’ with minor offenders to get the Evip-lords. There may be a consequence but it should fall short of account shutdown and forfeiture of miles." Link
Originally Posted by sbrower
I am going to try and provide a summary of the advice. For the record, this is 90% from Jon (JonNYC) and a little bit from other comments and circumstances, I am just trying to provide an easy summary, without all the explanations and reasons. I am happy to have others update/correct.

1. Respond to the questions in the email which you received. Don't try to call or email that person, or anyone else, at AA or DOT or whatever. Just answer the email.

2. Answer every question, in detail, with the facts. Don't use sarcasm or "you should know" or anything else that sounds like to you are avoiding the exact question being asked.

3. Assume that they know more about the true facts than you do. It might not always be true, but in most cases they have way more information than you might assume. So go back to #2, above.

4. If you did ANYTHING that was wrong (not under your interpretation of what you think the rules should be, but based on what the rules actually say) then, if you want to continue to participate in the AAdvantage program, tell them about your error and tell them that you are prepared to pay a correct penalty for your mistake (miles/status/etc) and then go back to #2, above.
From JonNYC, our resident expert on this:

Originally Posted by JonNYC
Perfect and 100%.
<snip>

The analysts that do this for a living have the same reactions that any humans do to being lied to and/or condescended to. Therefore, as well as being 100% truthful, go out of your way NOT to be:

-condescending
-brusque
-sharp, terse and/or sounding like you're being inconvenienced
-insulting
-just generally slippery, aloof, evasive and unforthcoming. As mentioned; they know more than you think they do. Always.

DO be apologetic, contrite and extremely cooperative.

Finally, any version of "...in which case, I'll be emailing [insert name or department here] to tell them how I, a [insert years flying AA, status, MMer, $$ spent, etc] customer is being treated" and/or mention of your lawyer, DOT, Chris Elliot (), this forum, any blogger, etc. DO NOT DO THIS.
Older posts have been archived to the
archived thread.

A number of posts regarding AA's confiscation of 60,000 miles from "Mr. Hayes" for allegedly making "fictitious" bookings in search of whether his upgrade would be likely to progress or not, AA IT issues that might have led to this (or not), AA's replies and the USDOT complaint have been moved to a new thread: Hayes, USDOT and AA: "fictitious bookings" and checking upgrades.

NOTE: Posts about members experiencing account security breaches, fraud, theft of awards and instruments have moved to Account fraud / breach: my account compromised, awards stolen, etc..

Print Wikipost

Account audit / blocked / fraud: award / miles / SWU / sale, barter, etc.

Old Feb 20, 2017, 8:30 pm
  #46  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by rjw242
I don't think that's necessary, since there are one or two viewers here at most who can really speak knowledgeably to this kind of issue (and I'm not one of them ). It might be worth taking a look at the AAdvantage fraud thread (where I assume this will be merged) to see descriptions of similar experiences.
There are so many comments with such little relevant info on how to deal with this.

I would like to know what the mailing address is for this department and who is the manager or director in charge. I have provided answers to all the questions M. requested. I was never even told what policy it was i violated. My friend already admitted to them of who she sold the upgrades to, and exonerated me of any part of that deal.

Last edited by JDiver; Feb 21, 2017 at 4:18 pm Reason: Redacted employee name
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Old Feb 20, 2017, 8:35 pm
  #47  
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One important distinction; a frozen or locked account can be discussed and possibly someone can steer you in the right direction.

A terminated (or "deleted" as mention in the OP) AAdv account is, for all intents and purposes, a past matter (think Parrot Sketch from Monty Python)-- I don't know if the number of reversals of a termination are zero or a couple over that #, but it's such an inconsequentially small number that it's all but certain that there will be no reversal and no amount of letters to CEO's etc, etc is going to make the slightest difference.

Usually a lock/freeze will transition to a termination due to a non-reply or a reply that doesn't meet the time deadline, or, obviously, answers that don't satisfy the analyst working the case. Could be a combination of the above factors as well.

But, again, a terminated account is a lost cause in terms of getting anyone's input here, from my perspective.
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Old Feb 20, 2017, 8:45 pm
  #48  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by dickinson
Was the information provided by your friend in response to the questions truthful? Did she admit trying to sell the SWU's or did she deny it until AA provided its evidence?
This is what she sent, and there was one more recent person which would be #3. I believe that was the one sold.

Date: Monday, February 13, 2017 at 12:03 PM
Dear xxxxxxxxxxxx,

After further investigation we have reason to believe that the transactions listed below violate one or more of the AAdvantage program conditions. This includes, but is not limited to, prohibition of purchase, sale, or barter of mileage credit and/or award tickets. As a result, American Airlines has suspended your AAdvantage membership privileges and use of AA.com® in conjunction with your account – and may terminate your account as a result of our findings. We are in the process of completing the investigation into this matter, and I would like to hear the events as they occurred from your perspective. Please respond to this message by 3pm, CST, 17, February, 2017 with complete and accurate information regarding the activity listed below:

1. February 3, 2017 – 1 Systemwide Upgrade – 1 passenger

Required Information:
• Passenger name xxxxxxxxxx
• Origin and destination cities on the travel itinerary HKG – DFW - RSW
• Purchaser name (individual, company and/or website), including: This SWU was a gift
· Copy of any advertisements to which you responded offering to purchase/broker the use of your AAdvantage miles
• Purchaser contact information, such as: N/A
· Mailing address
· Email address
· Telephone number
· Website profile name
• Your statement fully disclosing the details surrounding the sale/barter transaction referenced above
This SWU was a gift
• Copy of all communication between yourself and the purchaser Please see screen shots of our conversations.
• Documentation that you received payment N/A


2. February 1, 2017 – 1 Systemwide Upgrade – 1 passenger

Required Information:
• Passenger names xxxxxxxx (this is mine)
• Origin and destination cities on the travel itinerary PHX – MSP - LAX
• Purchaser name (individual, company and/or website), including: This SWU was a gift
· Copy of any advertisements to which you responded offering to purchase/broker the use of your AAdvantage miles
• Purchaser contact information, such as: N/A
· Mailing address
· Email address
· Telephone number
· Website profile name
• Your statement fully disclosing the details surrounding the sale/barter transaction referenced above
This SWU was a gift
• Copy of all communication between yourself and the purchaser You have already rec’d screen shots from Mike in regards to our conversations
• Documentation that you received payment N/A
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Old Feb 20, 2017, 8:58 pm
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Snowycali
I was never even told what policy it was i violated. My friend already admitted to them of who she sold the upgrades to, and exonerated me of any part of that deal.
Every member of the AAdvantage program is responsible for knowing the terms and conditions of the program. Read the T&Cs - it's evident where you ran afoul, and how, as the buyer, AA holds you accountable, too.

https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-p...conditions.jsp

It's the end of February and SWUs are expiring, perhaps boosting the frequency of this activity.
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Old Feb 20, 2017, 9:04 pm
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Snowycali
If anyone here could offer some advice/assistance with contact information for executive and management personal I can write to, to plead for assistance, it would be appreciated. This guy from corporate security has ignored any requests for information.

My AAdvantage account, as well as that of a close friend of mine, were suspended and then deleted by an employee of American Airlines Corporate Security, with NO EVIDENCE of any wrongdoing by me. About a week before this began, I had been given a SWU from a girlfriend of mine who is an Executive Platinum. This was given as a gift and no money changed hands for this upgrade.

On Feb. 10th, I was contacted by someone claiming to be from corporate security department, accusing me of an unidentified violation of the AAdvantage program. This person refused to provide any details of exactly what I had done wrong and demanded I provide information such as “seller contact information” and “form of payment”. I had been accused of committing some kind of fraud against American without any information being presented.

Myself and the other person, complied to the best of our ability to answer his questions and provided evidence to support our statements. My responses that countered the accusations of guilt that the agent were making were ignored.

I have learned that my friend had tried to sell two of her VIP upgrades only a week earlier, which was the genesis of this situation. She is an Executive Platinum and had a couple SWU that were going to be expiring soon according to her. I took no part in her sale and have been persecuted simply for my relationship to her.

After a few days of this continuing ordeal, demanding to know who this person answered to and the contact information for his office, all we received were generic form emails saying our accounts were deleted. All I got was this stupid form letter after going back and forth:




What is so ridiculous about this is that i provided photographic evidence that we had been texting and she offered the upgrade to me as a gift. I had answered as many of his list of questions that I could to the best of my abilities. This guy is claiming that i was unwilling to cooperate because i could not answer what the "sellers website" was or an "invoice of the sale". I have been flying exclusively on American for years and i cant believe this is happening over something so stupid that i was not even involved in.

Any help would be appreciated.
I'm very confused. How many different people are involved here?

The first paragraph after the bold refers to "a close friend of mine" and "a girlfriend of mine."

The third paragraph talks of "the other person."

Finally the fourth paragraph says "my friend" and then "my relationship to her." [Did one of the OP's (blood) relatives suddenly appear in the story? Normally one would say "relationship with someone" if the someone is a significant other.]

I suspect that these are all the same individual, despite the mention of EXP status twice, for a girlfriend and then for the friend who might be a relative.
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Old Feb 20, 2017, 9:21 pm
  #51  
 
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Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 5,270
So, this:

Your statement fully disclosing the details surrounding the sale/barter transaction referenced above
This SWU was a gift
• Copy of all communication between yourself and the purchaser You have already rec’d screen shots from Mike in regards to our conversations
...doesn't really seem like a satisfactory answer, for 2 reasons:
1. "This SWU was a gift" didn't come close to a full disclosure of the circumstances, and probably came off as evasive, and
2. Referring to screen shots sent by the other person (you?) didn't actually satisfy the request. The analyst likely wanted documentation from both sides to see that the story was corroborated, so telling him "you already have it" wasn't sufficient.

In my armchair opinion, anyhow.
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Old Feb 20, 2017, 10:16 pm
  #52  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by rjw242
So, this:



...doesn't really seem like a satisfactory answer, for 2 reasons:
1. "This SWU was a gift" didn't come close to a full disclosure of the circumstances, and probably came off as evasive, and
2. Referring to screen shots sent by the other person (you?) didn't actually satisfy the request. The analyst likely wanted documentation from both sides to see that the story was corroborated, so telling him "you already have it" wasn't sufficient.

In my armchair opinion, anyhow.
These are not what i sent, this is what she sent, i didint see it until after they closed my account.

I know youre right that by itself would not be enough. She also sent her own copies of emails and/or text message screenshots

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
I'm very confused. How many different people are involved here?

The first paragraph after the bold refers to "a close friend of mine" and "a girlfriend of mine."

The third paragraph talks of "the other person."

Finally the fourth paragraph says "my friend" and then "my relationship to her." [Did one of the OP's (blood) relatives suddenly appear in the story? Normally one would say "relationship with someone" if the someone is a significant other.]

I suspect that these are all the same individual, despite the mention of EXP status twice, for a girlfriend and then for the friend who might be a relative.
This is what i was offended by when the AA agent was prying. This woman was a girlfriend who i knew years ago when we both lived in the area. She has since moved but we have kept in touch, and talk occasionally. As far as i know, there were 2 SWU's given away, and she tried to sell 2 more. The friend/girlfriend is the same person. I do not know the others.

Im still hoping for some insight on where to proceed to fix this whole ordeal.

Last edited by JY1024; Feb 20, 2017 at 11:38 pm Reason: Merged consecutive posts from same user
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Old Feb 20, 2017, 10:21 pm
  #53  
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JonNyc is pretty knowledgable on the topic; if he says that the account is dead, it has ceased to be , it is no more ---- then it probably is time to throw the towel in unless there is something big to add to it to tell AA

When asked for details, what did you actually tell the agent?
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Old Feb 20, 2017, 10:28 pm
  #54  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
JonNyc is pretty knowledgable on the topic; if he says that the account is dead, it has ceased to be , it is no more ---- then it probably is time to throw the towel in unless there is something big to add to it to tell AA
Agreed - if JonNYC says it's over, it's over.

Unfortunately there's no expectation of, or obligations for, due process in these situations. If the analyst believes you or the other person aren't being forthcoming, or if you become agitated and start demanding to speak to their supervisor, it's 100% within their authority to basically fire you as a customer with no possible recourse.

I don't know about AA's procedure but am familiar with my own company's investigative processes, and the best course of action is always to be as transparent and forthcoming as possible, and never lose your cool. The company holds all the cards. For future reference.
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Old Feb 20, 2017, 11:00 pm
  #55  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
JonNyc is pretty knowledgable on the topic; if he says that the account is dead, it has ceased to be , it is no more ---- then it probably is time to throw the towel in unless there is something big to add to it to tell AA

When asked for details, what did you actually tell the agent?
Please answer the following:
1. Who booked the reservation(s)? You know it was me.
2. How (i.e. on AA.COM and/or telephoned AA) was the reservation(s) booked? You know i booked online.
3. How do you know xxxxx? Please indicate their complete name and contact information:
• Complete Name: I already told you.
• Address: Its in Chicago, IL. I have not been to her home there, ill ask her if it matters.
• Email address: You already know this. Im CCing her in my responses to your emails.
• Telephone (home): I don’t know.
• Telephone (cell): You already know this. xxxxxxxx.
• Telephone (business): I don’t know.
• Date of Birth: You already know this. xxxxxxxth.
4. How long have you known xxxxx? I already told you.
5. What type (i.e. American Express, Mastercard, Visa, Discover, etc.) of credit card(s) was used to pay the fees associated with the ticket processing? What are the first four digits and last four digits of the credit card(s) used? This does not exist.
6. Who is the subscriber to the credit card(s) used for the payment and billing address? This does not exist.
7. What email address(es) was provided to AA so that AA could communicate the processing of the ticket(s)? You already know this. Its this email.
8. Who is the subscriber of the email address(es) provided to AA? You already know this. Its this email.
9. How did you provide payment for the ticket(s) you had issued for yourself? Gift card most likely. You already know this.
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Old Feb 20, 2017, 11:11 pm
  #56  
 
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Originally Posted by Snowycali
Please answer the following:
1. Who booked the reservation(s)? You know it was me.
2. How (i.e. on AA.COM and/or telephoned AA) was the reservation(s) booked? You know i booked online.
3. How do you know xxxxx? Please indicate their complete name and contact information:
• Complete Name: I already told you.
• Address: Its in Chicago, IL. I have not been to her home there, ill ask her if it matters.
• Email address: You already know this. Im CCing her in my responses to your emails.
• Telephone (home): I don’t know.
• Telephone (cell): You already know this. xxxxxxxx.
• Telephone (business): I don’t know.
• Date of Birth: You already know this. xxxxxxxth.
4. How long have you known xxxxx? I already told you.
5. What type (i.e. American Express, Mastercard, Visa, Discover, etc.) of credit card(s) was used to pay the fees associated with the ticket processing? What are the first four digits and last four digits of the credit card(s) used? This does not exist.
6. Who is the subscriber to the credit card(s) used for the payment and billing address? This does not exist.
7. What email address(es) was provided to AA so that AA could communicate the processing of the ticket(s)? You already know this. Its this email.
8. Who is the subscriber of the email address(es) provided to AA? You already know this. Its this email.
9. How did you provide payment for the ticket(s) you had issued for yourself? Gift card most likely. You already know this.
Is this a joke? These responses are rude and not the least bit helpful to whoever was investigating. It's no surprise that your account was suspended. This post and the answers to their questions screams violation of policy.
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Old Feb 20, 2017, 11:11 pm
  #57  
 
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Originally Posted by Snowycali
Please answer the following:
1. Who booked the reservation(s)? You know it was me.
2. How (i.e. on AA.COM and/or telephoned AA) was the reservation(s) booked? You know i booked online.
3. How do you know xxxxx? Please indicate their complete name and contact information:
• Complete Name: I already told you.
• Address: Its in Chicago, IL. I have not been to her home there, ill ask her if it matters.
This actually explains perfectly why AA decided to terminate their relationship with you.

I don't think you're ever getting your AAdvantage account back. You might try starting over with a different airline, and perhaps consider not throwing a petty tantrum if they have questions about your account.
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Old Feb 20, 2017, 11:11 pm
  #58  
 
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Originally Posted by Snowycali
Please answer the following:
1. Who booked the reservation(s)? You know it was me.
2. How (i.e. on AA.COM and/or telephoned AA) was the reservation(s) booked? You know i booked online.
3. How do you know xxxxx? Please indicate their complete name and contact information:
• Complete Name: I already told you.
• Address: Its in Chicago, IL. I have not been to her home there, ill ask her if it matters.
• Email address: You already know this. Im CCing her in my responses to your emails.
• Telephone (home): I don’t know.
• Telephone (cell): You already know this. xxxxxxxx.
• Telephone (business): I don’t know.
• Date of Birth: You already know this. xxxxxxxth.
4. How long have you known xxxxx? I already told you.
5. What type (i.e. American Express, Mastercard, Visa, Discover, etc.) of credit card(s) was used to pay the fees associated with the ticket processing? What are the first four digits and last four digits of the credit card(s) used? This does not exist.
6. Who is the subscriber to the credit card(s) used for the payment and billing address? This does not exist.
7. What email address(es) was provided to AA so that AA could communicate the processing of the ticket(s)? You already know this. Its this email.
8. Who is the subscriber of the email address(es) provided to AA? You already know this. Its this email.
9. How did you provide payment for the ticket(s) you had issued for yourself? Gift card most likely. You already know this.

So I'd say you went about this exactly the wrong way, you have no leverage here and your answers "you already know this" sounds rather like you were looking to be confrontational when you probably should have just answered them. In fact for some of the items where you felt they "already know" what they knew might have "known" could have been wrong and not in your favor.
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Old Feb 20, 2017, 11:19 pm
  #59  
 
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Originally Posted by Snowycali
Please answer the following:
1. Who booked the reservation(s)? You know it was me.
2. How (i.e. on AA.COM and/or telephoned AA) was the reservation(s) booked? You know i booked online.
3. How do you know xxxxx? Please indicate their complete name and contact information:
• Complete Name: I already told you.
• Address: Its in Chicago, IL. I have not been to her home there, ill ask her if it matters.
• Email address: You already know this. Im CCing her in my responses to your emails.
• Telephone (home): I don’t know.
• Telephone (cell): You already know this. xxxxxxxx.
• Telephone (business): I don’t know.
• Date of Birth: You already know this. xxxxxxxth.
4. How long have you known xxxxx? I already told you.
5. What type (i.e. American Express, Mastercard, Visa, Discover, etc.) of credit card(s) was used to pay the fees associated with the ticket processing? What are the first four digits and last four digits of the credit card(s) used? This does not exist.
6. Who is the subscriber to the credit card(s) used for the payment and billing address? This does not exist.
7. What email address(es) was provided to AA so that AA could communicate the processing of the ticket(s)? You already know this. Its this email.
8. Who is the subscriber of the email address(es) provided to AA? You already know this. Its this email.
9. How did you provide payment for the ticket(s) you had issued for yourself? Gift card most likely. You already know this.
Sorry to say - you are toast....

Also sorry to say - it will not surprise me when AA makes SWU's non transferable in the future.
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Old Feb 20, 2017, 11:21 pm
  #60  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by lov2fly
Sorry to say - you are toast....

Also sorry to say - it will not surprise me when AA makes SWU's non transferable in the future.
......... I know now looking back at the emails, i was just really pissed over the inquisition that was taking place.
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