Suspected AA RTW tax/surcharge calculation error
Aug 30, 23, 12:29 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 209
Suspected AA RTW tax/surcharge calculation error
Hello! Hoping for some advice as to best way to proceed.
I initially booked a Circle Pacific Explorer fare via AA RTW Desk (Business) by phone. Due to some reasons, I decided to change the trip to a Oneworld Explorer ticket. As it is now a Oneworld Explorer ticket, I am able to 'plan' the journey on the Oneworld website and obtain the base fare/tax/surcharges.
Having called the AA RTW Desk, they managed to give me the same routing/dates/times. The only difference between the OneWorld website is that - for a JFK - HEL flight, AA RTW insisted on booking it on AA codeshare, as opposed to AY (Finnair).
After they sent it for rating/pricing, I was surprised by the fare difference (~400 USD more). The AA RTW agent was surprised at the tax/surcharge, and sent it back for re-rating, but the return was in fact higher! Having obtained the figures from the 2nd agent, the Base Fare are the same, between the oneworld website and AA RTW desk. Change fee is USD 125 (as expected). Which means it is the taxes/surcharges that is the problem.
Issue is that I am not able to speak to the pricing people, only the phone agents from AA RTW. The AA RTW frontdesk reassured me that isn't due to the AA vs AY booking.
What are your thoughts about what I should do?
I initially booked a Circle Pacific Explorer fare via AA RTW Desk (Business) by phone. Due to some reasons, I decided to change the trip to a Oneworld Explorer ticket. As it is now a Oneworld Explorer ticket, I am able to 'plan' the journey on the Oneworld website and obtain the base fare/tax/surcharges.
Having called the AA RTW Desk, they managed to give me the same routing/dates/times. The only difference between the OneWorld website is that - for a JFK - HEL flight, AA RTW insisted on booking it on AA codeshare, as opposed to AY (Finnair).
After they sent it for rating/pricing, I was surprised by the fare difference (~400 USD more). The AA RTW agent was surprised at the tax/surcharge, and sent it back for re-rating, but the return was in fact higher! Having obtained the figures from the 2nd agent, the Base Fare are the same, between the oneworld website and AA RTW desk. Change fee is USD 125 (as expected). Which means it is the taxes/surcharges that is the problem.
Issue is that I am not able to speak to the pricing people, only the phone agents from AA RTW. The AA RTW frontdesk reassured me that isn't due to the AA vs AY booking.
What are your thoughts about what I should do?
Aug 30, 23, 12:44 am
#2
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,107
When you price up on the OW website, what airline is it indicating as being the one issuing the ATW ticket? if it is not AA, then could be due to what that airline charges for carrier surcharges
Looking at AY and at AA for JFK-HEL, the carrier surcharges from AA and from AY seem to be the same, so don't think it is that
It is likely that it relates to other parts of the journey - or potentially an error in calculation
Can you get AA to provide a breakdown of the fare/taxes/surcharges and then compare against what the website is quoting for the same ATW ticket
Looking at AY and at AA for JFK-HEL, the carrier surcharges from AA and from AY seem to be the same, so don't think it is that
It is likely that it relates to other parts of the journey - or potentially an error in calculation
Can you get AA to provide a breakdown of the fare/taxes/surcharges and then compare against what the website is quoting for the same ATW ticket
Aug 30, 23, 4:57 am
#4
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA PLT PRO
Posts: 3,409
Also, maybe there should be no USD125 change fee.
From the Circle Pacific fare rules:
From the Circle Pacific fare rules:
16(c)5. At any time the Circle Pacific fare may be used as credit towards payment of any higher fare from the point of origin provided the conditions of the higher fare have been met. No fee will apply. Where such credit is towards another Explorer fare, retroactive use will be permitted. Reissued tickets must be endorsed --NON REF/ XXX-- (XXX equals Circle Pacific fare basis code) and the original Non-Refundable amount remains Non-refundable. If the upgraded ticket is subsequently cancelled the original fee will apply.
Sep 1, 23, 10:30 am
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 209
Just an update after multiple phone calls to AA RTW desk. Unfortunately it wasn't the outcome I wished for.
I spoke to a really helpful agent, who went back several times to the ratings desk. They insisted that the taxes/surcharges are correct.
After going back & forth several times, 4 ratings staff said their amount is correct. Initially, the helpful agent suggested that I make the booking at oneworld.com, hold the ticket (and not pay), and call her back to have the previous ticket used as credit for the new ticket (she said even her team leader said that). I asked her to leave a note on the system while I quickly 'build' the itinerary at oneworld.com, but couldn't do so.. She then came back to me and corrected herself, saying that unfortunately we can't hold on oneworld.com.
She suggested that I just cancel the ticket - but I will be charged the 5% fee. I asked her can she ask her supervisor if that 5% can be waived - she spoke to her manager and was told that can't be waived.
As the 5% surcharge will end up more costly, I decided to just bite the bullet and pay the fare difference, despite disagreeing with the taxes/fees.
The fare difference, on oneworld.com, would be $850. But based on AA's calculations, it is $1460 (the amount I paid).
I am of course not happy with that - but who do I escalate my complaint to? I heard AA Customer Relations isn't te best.
Thank you Pandaperth. Yes, the other agent agreed and requested it to be dropped.
I spoke to a really helpful agent, who went back several times to the ratings desk. They insisted that the taxes/surcharges are correct.
After going back & forth several times, 4 ratings staff said their amount is correct. Initially, the helpful agent suggested that I make the booking at oneworld.com, hold the ticket (and not pay), and call her back to have the previous ticket used as credit for the new ticket (she said even her team leader said that). I asked her to leave a note on the system while I quickly 'build' the itinerary at oneworld.com, but couldn't do so.. She then came back to me and corrected herself, saying that unfortunately we can't hold on oneworld.com.
She suggested that I just cancel the ticket - but I will be charged the 5% fee. I asked her can she ask her supervisor if that 5% can be waived - she spoke to her manager and was told that can't be waived.
As the 5% surcharge will end up more costly, I decided to just bite the bullet and pay the fare difference, despite disagreeing with the taxes/fees.
The fare difference, on oneworld.com, would be $850. But based on AA's calculations, it is $1460 (the amount I paid).
I am of course not happy with that - but who do I escalate my complaint to? I heard AA Customer Relations isn't te best.
Also, maybe there should be no USD125 change fee.
From the Circle Pacific fare rules:
From the Circle Pacific fare rules:
16(c)5. At any time the Circle Pacific fare may be used as credit towards payment of any higher fare from the point of origin provided the conditions of the higher fare have been met. No fee will apply. Where such credit is towards another Explorer fare, retroactive use will be permitted. Reissued tickets must be endorsed --NON REF/ XXX-- (XXX equals Circle Pacific fare basis code) and the original Non-Refundable amount remains Non-refundable. If the upgraded ticket is subsequently cancelled the original fee will apply.
Last edited by Microwave; Sep 12, 23 at 11:55 am Reason: Merged consecutive posts for readability
Sep 1, 23, 12:04 pm
#6
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,817
Just an update after multiple phone calls to AA RTW desk. Unfortunately it wasn't the outcome I wished for.
I spoke to a really helpful agent, who went back several times to the ratings desk. They insisted that the taxes/surcharges are correct.
After going back & forth several times, 4 ratings staff said their amount is correct. Initially, the helpful agent suggested that I make the booking at oneworld.com, hold the ticket (and not pay), and call her back to have the previous ticket used as credit for the new ticket (she said even her team leader said that). I asked her to leave a note on the system while I quickly 'build' the itinerary at oneworld.com, but couldn't do so.. She then came back to me and corrected herself, saying that unfortunately we can't hold on oneworld.com.
She suggested that I just cancel the ticket - but I will be charged the 5% fee. I asked her can she ask her supervisor if that 5% can be waived - she spoke to her manager and was told that can't be waived.
As the 5% surcharge will end up more costly, I decided to just bite the bullet and pay the fare difference, despite disagreeing with the taxes/fees.
The fare difference, on oneworld.com, would be $850. But based on AA's calculations, it is $1460 (the amount I paid).
I am of course not happy with that - but who do I escalate my complaint to? I heard AA Customer Relations isn't te best.
I spoke to a really helpful agent, who went back several times to the ratings desk. They insisted that the taxes/surcharges are correct.
After going back & forth several times, 4 ratings staff said their amount is correct. Initially, the helpful agent suggested that I make the booking at oneworld.com, hold the ticket (and not pay), and call her back to have the previous ticket used as credit for the new ticket (she said even her team leader said that). I asked her to leave a note on the system while I quickly 'build' the itinerary at oneworld.com, but couldn't do so.. She then came back to me and corrected herself, saying that unfortunately we can't hold on oneworld.com.
She suggested that I just cancel the ticket - but I will be charged the 5% fee. I asked her can she ask her supervisor if that 5% can be waived - she spoke to her manager and was told that can't be waived.
As the 5% surcharge will end up more costly, I decided to just bite the bullet and pay the fare difference, despite disagreeing with the taxes/fees.
The fare difference, on oneworld.com, would be $850. But based on AA's calculations, it is $1460 (the amount I paid).
I am of course not happy with that - but who do I escalate my complaint to? I heard AA Customer Relations isn't te best.
Sep 1, 23, 7:37 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 209
On a separate note, I noticed something very unusual but AA's new E-ticket.
Assuming:
Old ticket price (TOT1) = Base Fare (BF1) + Taxes/surcharges (TAX1)
New ticket price (TOT2) = Base Fare (BF2) + Taxes/surcharges (TAX2)
Logically, one would assume the price difference = TOT2 - TOT1 = (BF2 + TAX2) - (BF1 + TAX1). Am I correct?
===
On this new Eticket, it says:
Your purchase
Name of passenger
New ticket (xxxxxxxx) = TOT2
[BF2 + TAX2]
Total cost = TOT2
Your payment
Visa (ending xxxx) = The disputed amount
Ticket exchange = BF1 (yes they only listed the Base Fare of the old ticket, not the full price of the old ticket)
Total paid = TOT2
They calculated The disputed amount as: BF2 + TAX2 - BF1
I calculated it as BF2 + TAX2 - (BF1 + TAX1).
- as the previously paid taxes/surcharges should be used as credit for this new ticket isn't it?
===
In summary, I thought the "Your Payment" section should look like this:
Visa (ending xxxx) = BF2 + TAX2 - (BF1 + TAX1)
Ticket exchange = BF1 + TAX1
Total paid = TOT2
Just to confirm, this ticket hasn't been flown at all.
Am I correct, or have I erred? If I am correct, who should I escalate this to? It's very hard because the AA RTW agents admitted repeatedly that fare/pricing is not her forte...
Sep 3, 23, 5:44 am
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 209
Thanks Dave Noble. I have attached the 'previous ticket' and 'new ticket' below. Additionally I have attached quote from OW.
(Apologies I wasn't sure how to compile those numbers - I ended up just screenshotting them)
Just an explanation - in each picture, there is the Total Cost (as per the trip summary e-mailed), the Breakdown (as per AA receipt), and lastly, the Fare Calculation .
There is really lots of irregularities - I am confused about how AA calculated everything. For example:
1. In the new ticket, the "Ticket Exchange" is $12,759, when it should be $13,595.04. By that logic, I would be paying the fare difference of $575.87, as opposed to $1,411.91.
2.
- In the new ticket, at the Receipt section, you will see [$13,749 + Taxes & fees - $ 12,337.09]. I don't know where they got the $ 12,337.09 from.
- If I total up the listed Taxes & Fees (as listed, i.e. $1,044.35), the new ticket is actually $ 14,793.35. If they subtract $13,595.04, then the fare difference is $1,198.31
- To have charged me $1,411.91, it meant that the new ticket is actually $ 15,006.95.
3. In the Fare Calculation, whilst in the previous ticket, all the numbers add up; in the new ticket, all the numbers do not add up.
4. All the above cannot be explained by the Rate of Exchange (ROE) flunctuations.
I am not having much faith in the calculation of the AA agents - or are they correct and I'm wrong? Bear in mind too their numbers are very different from what OW shows.
Also, who should I escalate this to? I heard AA Customer Relations isn't the best. I do not hold any status with AA.
Thank you.
Old Ticket (Circle Explorer)
New Ticket (OneWorld Explorer)
Quote from OW Website for exact routing/dates/flight numbers
(Apologies I wasn't sure how to compile those numbers - I ended up just screenshotting them)
Just an explanation - in each picture, there is the Total Cost (as per the trip summary e-mailed), the Breakdown (as per AA receipt), and lastly, the Fare Calculation .
There is really lots of irregularities - I am confused about how AA calculated everything. For example:
1. In the new ticket, the "Ticket Exchange" is $12,759, when it should be $13,595.04. By that logic, I would be paying the fare difference of $575.87, as opposed to $1,411.91.
2.
- In the new ticket, at the Receipt section, you will see [$13,749 + Taxes & fees - $ 12,337.09]. I don't know where they got the $ 12,337.09 from.
- If I total up the listed Taxes & Fees (as listed, i.e. $1,044.35), the new ticket is actually $ 14,793.35. If they subtract $13,595.04, then the fare difference is $1,198.31
- To have charged me $1,411.91, it meant that the new ticket is actually $ 15,006.95.
3. In the Fare Calculation, whilst in the previous ticket, all the numbers add up; in the new ticket, all the numbers do not add up.
4. All the above cannot be explained by the Rate of Exchange (ROE) flunctuations.
I am not having much faith in the calculation of the AA agents - or are they correct and I'm wrong? Bear in mind too their numbers are very different from what OW shows.
Also, who should I escalate this to? I heard AA Customer Relations isn't the best. I do not hold any status with AA.
Thank you.
Old Ticket (Circle Explorer)
New Ticket (OneWorld Explorer)
Quote from OW Website for exact routing/dates/flight numbers
Last edited by chowinlondon; Sep 3, 23 at 5:49 am
Sep 3, 23, 6:02 am
#10
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,107
Where is this ATW ticket starting from and which is the 1st carrier in the itinerary? Om the OW page for the ATW ticlet, it should say (or used to say) which airline it will be issuing the ticket with . Can you show which airline?
Sep 3, 23, 7:04 am
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 209
I have selected AA as the issuing carrier on OW.
It doesn't show up on the e-mailed itinerary though.
Just checking if there are any thoughts about how to proceed further with this.
I have discussed with the Around The World desk which is very hard (given over the phone, difficulty with sharing calculations). Appreciate any advice about how to advance this further.
Last edited by Microwave; Sep 12, 23 at 11:56 am Reason: Merged consecutive posts for readability
Sep 12, 23, 6:06 am
#12
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: Mileageplus
Posts: 216
The way I see the add collect of A$1411.91 is calculated this way:
A$13749.00 New base fare
A$12759.00 Old base fare
A$990.00 difference
A$836.04 original tax/surcharge
A$421.91 additional tax required as indicated on the new ticket.
Add 990.00 additional base fare and 421.91 additional tax and you get 1411.91
In the new ticket here is what I would question based on both the fare calculation ladder and how they arrived at a couple of figures.
On the new ticket, the list of taxes shows something they refer to as "Generic ESST" for A$938.75 (which is the sum of the two TX figures in the fare calc line A$320.11 plus A$618.64).
In the fare calculation ladder of the current ticket, the basis for the A$421.91 additional tax is determined by underlined figures after the letters XT. Those in italics were collected in the original ticket so they have already been paid. The figures I placed in italics add up to $836.04 which includes the 6.70 SG tax and $3.40 L7 tax in the fare calculation area under taxes.
I would question the TX coded figures in each. Namely A$320.11(see underlined area) and A$618.64 (see Italics area). I am not saying all the other taxes should not be questioned, but the detail for each is clearly not listed. Also, in both TX figures is probably buried the YR surcharges, as they are not listed anywhere in the new calculation.
Fare Calculation :AUD 13749.00 6.70 SG 3.40 L7 421.91 XT
:AMERICAN AIRLINES 02Sep23
IATA: 19491205
: Cir26/Original Nonref Remains Nonref/Valid Onc39-42
ONUCOEND ROE1.499111 XT320.11TX 16.90DE 17.60FI 9,10DQ 1.60XU 39.60RA 11.30SW 5.700I XFJFK4.5 PD33.80G3 10.4015 65.80US 9.
60C 10.30XY 5.70XA 16.60AY 48.50G1 6.60XF 618.64TX
So, FWIW, my suggestion is to ask AA to provide a more detailed itemization of those specific taxes to determine just where the total tax on the new ticket has been derived.
My apologies, in advance, if this was of zero help. I do hope you get the resolution you seek. I also agree that they way they have displayed it on the new ticket is totally confusing.
Last edited by 1kprem; Sep 12, 23 at 1:45 pm Reason: correct grammatical error.
Sep 13, 23, 9:16 am
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 209
HI. It has been a few years since I handled rates of this nature but here it goes as to how I think they came up with the calculation and what you need to ask for further information from AA. You have probably deduced this already, but here goes:
The way I see the add collect of A$1411.91 is calculated this way:
A$13749.00 New base fare
A$12759.00 Old base fare
A$990.00 difference
A$836.04 original tax/surcharge
A$421.91 additional tax required as indicated on the new ticket.
Add 990.00 additional base fare and 421.91 additional tax and you get 1411.91
In the new ticket here is what I would question based on both the fare calculation ladder and how they arrived at a couple of figures.
On the new ticket, the list of taxes shows something they refer to as "Generic ESST" for A$938.75 (which is the sum of the two TX figures in the fare calc line A$320.11 plus A$618.64).
In the fare calculation ladder of the current ticket, the basis for the A$421.91 additional tax is determined by underlined figures after the letters XT. Those in italics were collected in the original ticket so they have already been paid. The figures I placed in italics add up to $836.04 which includes the 6.70 SG tax and $3.40 L7 tax in the fare calculation area under taxes.
I would question the TX coded figures in each. Namely A$320.11(see underlined area) and A$618.64 (see Italics area). I am not saying all the other taxes should not be questioned, but the detail for each is clearly not listed. Also, in both TX figures is probably buried the YR surcharges, as they are not listed anywhere in the new calculation.
Fare Calculation :AUD 13749.00 6.70 SG 3.40 L7 421.91 XT
:AMERICAN AIRLINES 02Sep23
IATA: 19491205
: Cir26/Original Nonref Remains Nonref/Valid Onc39-42
ONUCOEND ROE1.499111 XT320.11TX 16.90DE 17.60FI 9,10DQ 1.60XU 39.60RA 11.30SW 5.700I XFJFK4.5 PD33.80G3 10.4015 65.80US 9.
60C 10.30XY 5.70XA 16.60AY 48.50G1 6.60XF 618.64TX
So, FWIW, my suggestion is to ask AA to provide a more detailed itemization of those specific taxes to determine just where the total tax on the new ticket has been derived.
My apologies, in advance, if this was of zero help. I do hope you get the resolution you seek. I also agree that they way they have displayed it on the new ticket is totally confusing.
The way I see the add collect of A$1411.91 is calculated this way:
A$13749.00 New base fare
A$12759.00 Old base fare
A$990.00 difference
A$836.04 original tax/surcharge
A$421.91 additional tax required as indicated on the new ticket.
Add 990.00 additional base fare and 421.91 additional tax and you get 1411.91
In the new ticket here is what I would question based on both the fare calculation ladder and how they arrived at a couple of figures.
On the new ticket, the list of taxes shows something they refer to as "Generic ESST" for A$938.75 (which is the sum of the two TX figures in the fare calc line A$320.11 plus A$618.64).
In the fare calculation ladder of the current ticket, the basis for the A$421.91 additional tax is determined by underlined figures after the letters XT. Those in italics were collected in the original ticket so they have already been paid. The figures I placed in italics add up to $836.04 which includes the 6.70 SG tax and $3.40 L7 tax in the fare calculation area under taxes.
I would question the TX coded figures in each. Namely A$320.11(see underlined area) and A$618.64 (see Italics area). I am not saying all the other taxes should not be questioned, but the detail for each is clearly not listed. Also, in both TX figures is probably buried the YR surcharges, as they are not listed anywhere in the new calculation.
Fare Calculation :AUD 13749.00 6.70 SG 3.40 L7 421.91 XT
:AMERICAN AIRLINES 02Sep23
IATA: 19491205
: Cir26/Original Nonref Remains Nonref/Valid Onc39-42
ONUCOEND ROE1.499111 XT320.11TX 16.90DE 17.60FI 9,10DQ 1.60XU 39.60RA 11.30SW 5.700I XFJFK4.5 PD33.80G3 10.4015 65.80US 9.
60C 10.30XY 5.70XA 16.60AY 48.50G1 6.60XF 618.64TX
So, FWIW, my suggestion is to ask AA to provide a more detailed itemization of those specific taxes to determine just where the total tax on the new ticket has been derived.
My apologies, in advance, if this was of zero help. I do hope you get the resolution you seek. I also agree that they way they have displayed it on the new ticket is totally confusing.
Questions to AA have not been helpful at all - issue is around being unable to speak to the 'right person'. The Reservations desk metioned the Ticketing desk doesn't take direct calls, every now and then there will be a promise to revert to me which inadvertently doesn't happen...
Just for my own knowledge - how is it that Oneworld.com can come up with a different tax/fare? I thought taxes, for example airport taxes should be uniform - say if you fly into LHR, didn't do a stopover etc., it should be the same, whether AA calculates it, or OW calculates it?
Sep 13, 23, 11:30 am
#14
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: Mileageplus
Posts: 216
Hi.. Unfortunately, I don't have the answer to why the OW site shows a lower tax amount.
Did AA ever say why they did not give you full credit for the first ticket when calculating the additional fare collection for the RTW fare?
Did AA ever say why they did not give you full credit for the first ticket when calculating the additional fare collection for the RTW fare?
Sep 13, 23, 12:32 pm
#15
Moderator: American AAdvantage, Signatures
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London, England
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador, National Exec, AA EXP Emeritus
Posts: 9,707
The only thing that immediately comes to mind on this one for me is the ticket being issued in Australia on AA stock in AUD. Perhaps the oneworld web search isn't smart enough to know how to figure all of those things out? I would imagine AA don't plate that many RTW tickets to begin with, and that a vanishingly small number of those they do issue would be issued in Australia in AUD. Not to say that this is an excuse if it's true, just that it might explain the lack of parity between the web search and what the rate desk are saying.
