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New Flagship Suites coming to 77W, 789 & 321XLR; 3-class F and 321T sub-fleet to go

New Flagship Suites coming to 77W, 789 & 321XLR; 3-class F and 321T sub-fleet to go

Old Sep 21, 2022, 4:08 pm
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Unimatrix One
I don't understand all the controversy over the door. If you don't like it, don't use it. It doesn't take anything away from the seat. I recently flew in ANA's new J seat, and the door doesn't reduce space or have any other disadvantages.
The issue is that in most cases, it does. I haven't been on the ANA seat and can't comment on it, but the other doored suites tend to have to tiny foot spaces, require odd contortions to get in and out and lack ample shoulder and elbow space.

I don't particularly care whether there is a door or not. But the door ends up trading away space and comfort for some largely psychological sense of privacy.

The ANA suite has been lauded by many as being spacious, so that might be the exception. I find the Q Suite to be horribly cramped, the new BA product is the same mediocre seat on AA 789, the Polaris J seats are like coffins etc.
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Old Sep 21, 2022, 5:06 pm
  #77  
 
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Originally Posted by NYC Flyer
I'm thinking the roll-out of PE in the premium transcon market will be accompanied by a review of the upgrade benefit/process for relevant routes that might not have been worth the effort when domestic PE was limited to select Hawaii/Alaska routings.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they apply a derivative of Delta’s economy comfort process to domestic PE — CKs and EXPs get them as “upgrades” at the time of booking / when available and the others get them as upgrades at the designated window. (Sorry PPROs - need to add another differentiation against EXP ). I’d be fine with a PE upgrade if service was consistent with the two-class domestic F…perhaps wishful thinking.

On the doors front — there is definitely a fixation with coffin-like privacy. I’m not opposed to it provided the seat area is comfortable and not cramped to get the door in (DL One suites and BA F suite are examples of the right balance IMO).

I was indifferent about the doors until this past May when on a Q Suite flight the woman across from me was breast feeding. I was very happy to have a door for the 7 hour flight! But yes the Q Suites are definitely a bit cramped as I knocked a glass of water over while trying to close said door.
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Old Sep 21, 2022, 6:57 pm
  #78  
 
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Originally Posted by NYC Flyer
I'm thinking the roll-out of PE in the premium transcon market will be accompanied by a review of the upgrade benefit/process for relevant routes that might not have been worth the effort when domestic PE was limited to select Hawaii/Alaska routings.
I'm cautiously optimistic AA won't unilaterally do anything drastic like only doing upgrades to PE:
  • United upgrades to a transcon lie-flat aren't complementary and require an instrument like an upgrade certificate or miles. But you could use an earned RPU (a regional instrument) or now PlusPoints (a short-haul amount) to upgrade to a transcon lie-flat; it didn't require a GPU (SWU equivalent).
  • DL had complementary upgrades to transcon DeltaOne, but changed their policy to require a GUC, and had to reverse course after the outcry from frequent flyers. They're complementary again.
Given AA got rid of 500-mile-upgrades for the AS deal, I'm not sure how they'd make the current policy of auto-upgrading to J more onerous without making it worse than the other guys. Requiring a SWU would be worse than both. Going to PE would be clearly worse than DL and sort of worse than UA which at least lets you spend your way to J. I guess they could require spending miles or invent another upgrade instrument just for this, but that'd be kind of inconsistent w/other routes and doing anything drastically different would require coordinating reciprocity with AS.
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Old Sep 21, 2022, 6:59 pm
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by Herb687
Are you listening, AA?
I doubt it. Probably some exec decided to eliminate first class and standardize on a new J seat. They probably said "Find me the cheapest, lightest J product that has walls and a door and will fit in a 787." They set up a demo of it in some Admirals Club where people can sit in it briefly, just like the exec did. Out of context, it might look like a nice product. I'm sure they never tried it In context, in an airplane on a long flight where they want to sleep and have personal items handy.
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Old Sep 21, 2022, 7:04 pm
  #80  
 
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Originally Posted by Antarius
The issue is that in most cases, it does. I haven't been on the ANA seat and can't comment on it, but the other doored suites tend to have to tiny foot spaces, require odd contortions to get in and out and lack ample shoulder and elbow space.
That's the case with this product, but I don't know that the door is to blame. I think it's just a lousy, cramped product, with a door slapped on.

Originally Posted by Antarius
But the door ends up trading away space and comfort for some largely psychological sense of privacy.
This isn't the case with the Qsuite. That is roomy, comfortable, has ample storage and surfaces, and noticeable privacy.

Originally Posted by Antarius
I find the Q Suite to be horribly cramped.
I don't, but I understand your experience is different. The Qsuite is my favorite J seat, and I prefer it to some airline's F product.
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Old Sep 21, 2022, 8:47 pm
  #81  
 
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Originally Posted by ryanbriar
I wouldn’t be surprised if they apply a derivative of Delta’s economy comfort process to domestic PE — CKs and EXPs get them as “upgrades” at the time of booking / when available and the others get them as upgrades at the designated window.
Originally Posted by A321T
IGiven AA got rid of 500-mile-upgrades for the AS deal, I'm not sure how they'd make the current policy of auto-upgrading to J more onerous without making it worse than the other guys.
With DL rolling out PE on domestic transcon as well, I suspect they will review policy too. I hope Y>J upgrades persist with both carriers, but it would not shock me if paid PE fare upgrades to J were processed ahead of all elites booked in economy as an incentive for folks to buy up to PE (then elites confirmed in economy would fill remaining J and PE seats in order of status/LPs/fare class, etc as on two-cabin aircraft). I don't think comped upgrades to PE will be automatic at time of ticketing on either carrier.
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Old Sep 21, 2022, 8:49 pm
  #82  
 
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Originally Posted by donotblink
I'll miss the A321T
Yeah, me too. They board fast and the subfleet seems to be less impacted by problems elsewhere in the network. I also don't like that the 321XLR J seats are going to point away from the window – found that odd when flying JetBlue Mint.

That said, the other aspects of the seat look good and I think PE on transcons will be a nice addition, assuming the fares are reasonable. For me, the lie-flat is kind of overkill on eastbound flights where you're only in the air for 4.5 hours or so.
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Old Sep 21, 2022, 9:46 pm
  #83  
 
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Originally Posted by Unimatrix One
The upcharge for PY is more about avoiding the misery of Y. A lot of people, myself included, will pay a lot to escape the torture of 9-abreast Y on a 787 or 10-abreast Y on a 777. These are very long flights, after all.
Some firms also have non-business class policy but allow either economy or premium economy. I know of few big firms with such policies. So much so that you have to buy PE even if business class is cheaper which is actually not that unusual when you buy close to departure date. I'd much rather be in PE and in economy. It's also cheaper to upgrade from PE using miles.
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Old Sep 21, 2022, 10:24 pm
  #84  
 
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Originally Posted by Unimatrix One
I don't understand all the controversy over the door. If you don't like it, don't use it. It doesn't take anything away from the seat.
It actually does.



If the door was not there, they could have designed the seat to be 3 or 4 inches wider (or more)
3 or 4 inches can be quite significant for width of seat

(F.e. On a narrow body Main Cabin is 17.4 inches, First 21 inches, and anybody can tell that the 3.6 in wider seat makes a big difference)
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Last edited by carlosdca; Sep 21, 2022 at 10:53 pm
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 1:01 am
  #85  
 
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Originally Posted by A321T
I'm cautiously optimistic AA won't unilaterally do anything drastic like only doing upgrades to PE:
  • United upgrades to a transcon lie-flat aren't complementary and require an instrument like an upgrade certificate or miles. But you could use an earned RPU (a regional instrument) or now PlusPoints (a short-haul amount) to upgrade to a transcon lie-flat; it didn't require a GPU (SWU equivalent).
  • DL had complementary upgrades to transcon DeltaOne, but changed their policy to require a GUC, and had to reverse course after the outcry from frequent flyers. They're complementary again.
Given AA got rid of 500-mile-upgrades for the AS deal, I'm not sure how they'd make the current policy of auto-upgrading to J more onerous without making it worse than the other guys. Requiring a SWU would be worse than both. Going to PE would be clearly worse than DL and sort of worse than UA which at least lets you spend your way to J. I guess they could require spending miles or invent another upgrade instrument just for this, but that'd be kind of inconsistent w/other routes and doing anything drastically different would require coordinating reciprocity with AS.
The way UA does upgrades is it prioritizes those in the O cabin ahead of those in Y for upgrades to J, unless you are global services or chairman's circle member. A 1K (EXP equivalent) trying to upgrade from Y to J is behind EVERYONE in O.

Upgrades from O to J on transcons/Hawaii are only 10 PP and 30 longhaul. Domestic upgrades to either O or J are 20 PP. Internationally, its 30 for O to J and 40 to 80 for Y to J
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 2:56 am
  #86  
 
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Originally Posted by carlosdca
It actually does.



If the door was not there, they could have designed the seat to be 3 or 4 inches wider (or more)
3 or 4 inches can be quite significant for width of seat

(F.e. On a narrow body Main Cabin is 17.4 inches, First 21 inches, and anybody can tell that the 3.6 in wider seat makes a big difference)
Having flown BAs new J product, I found it terrible. Could not comfortably have my arms at my side, or raise my knees when sleeping on my back. The door is useless.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 3:53 am
  #87  
 
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Originally Posted by carlosdca
It actually does.

[snip]

If the door was not there, they could have designed the seat to be 3 or 4 inches wider (or more)
3 or 4 inches can be quite significant for width of seat
OK. My only experience with doored seats was on ANA, and that was on a 777 with a very wide cabin and 1-2-1 layout. I guess the door makes a bigger difference to comfort on smaller planes.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 6:27 am
  #88  
 
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Originally Posted by anabolism
For a transcon, not much. For true long-haul, especially overnight flights where sleep is a priority, the more privacy the better. QR's Qsuite is an excellent product: it's roomy (one can stand up in one's suite), it has ample storage and surfaces, it has reasonable walls and a door that closes. It's a great J product. I prefer it to BA's F product. But AA is not installing the Qsuite product. They're installing the Adient Ascent, a miserable, cramped, crap product with no privacy, no storage, no space. It'll be fine on a transcon, but unpleasant on a long-haul. And this will be AA's top of the line product; no 77W F.
That doesn't answer my question.
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 7:32 am
  #89  
 
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Originally Posted by bchandler02
That doesn't answer my question.
It doesn't? You asked how much privacy one needs in J, and I replied "For a transcon, not much. For true long-haul, especially overnight flights where sleep is a priority, the more privacy the better" because more privacy means easier sleep for myself and many others (not everyone, of course, some people have not the slightest problem sleeping without any privacy).
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Old Sep 22, 2022, 7:33 am
  #90  
 
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Originally Posted by Unitedloyalflyer
Upgrades from O to J on transcons/Hawaii are only 10 PP and 30 longhaul. Domestic upgrades to either O or J are 20 PP. Internationally, its 30 for O to J and 40 to 80 for Y to J
What does "10 PP" mean?
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