VegasGambler

PE is definitely a separate class of service. It's lumped with economy for upgrades, but it meets the definition of a separate class of service in every other way.

Dave Noble

Delta has a premium economy product called Premium Select, that is definately a separate product
Whether Comfort Plus counts for higher APD I don't know and is irrelevant to this and just a distractor - looking at what can be included without it being a higher class and what comfort plus gives, would seem still to be economy ( same as MCE )

I cannot see any way that AA PE is not a separate class - What seems to be case is some people trying to argue it isn't rather than accepting that AA has some v poor descriptions regarding upgradde rules - if AA uses incorrect descriptions, is it that surprising that some agents would have an incorrect understanding

js1993

But this is also a "distractor" from the fact that any such misunderstanding could and should have been corrected via a 30-second inquiry to an AAngel or supervisor. Perhaps the GA was on a power trip or trying to help friends who happen to have been #3 and #4 on the upgrade list, but there's no good reason for any GA to believe he should re-order the upgrade list.

It was ludicrous for the GA to argue that he didn't have time to ask a supervisor but he did have time to take it upon himself to verify and re-order the upgrade list.

VegasGambler

AA's description is absolutely confusing. The problem is that they (and other airlines) insist on referring to their domestic 2-cabin premium cabins as first, rather than business (if the same aircraft with the same service flies internationally, like, to Mexico, they call it business, but if it's a domestic flight they call it first.)

If they would refer to the domestic 2-cabin premium cabin as "business", then SWUs could very easily be described as upgrading economy or PE to business, and upgrading business to first. But instead they have no simple way to refer to the premium cabin in a 2-cabin aircraft, and they have overloaded the term "first", so they have to give a confusing description which includes the term "next class of service" and has exceptions. A GA should really know what those exceptions are, but apparently some don't.

js1993

They should, but they don't really need to, since the computer orders everything for them. This GA decided he was smarter than the computer. (With AA's antiquated IT, that might be true at times, but there's no evidence it's true when it comes to upgrade priority.)

PHLGovFlyer

All of the discussion about APD, EU rules, what AA's website states in other locations (which, BTW, do not use the term "Class" or "Class of service" anywhere), DL's different cabins, etc. is largely irrelevant to the OP's situation. That situation hinges on what I posted above regarding SWU upgrades directly from AA's website:

I agree that semantically AA's use of the term "Class of Service" has little connection to the realities of air travel in premium cabins, and that their website is written poorly. However, the GA's failure to allow the OP to upgrade from Economy to Business using a SWU is clearly in contradiction to AA's published rule, regardless of how the FT community might debate/decide how to define "Class of Service".

ETA: One other point that might be lost in this discussion is the idea that "Class of Service" is actually more about the differences in "Service" than in the seat. Biz class really is a significant step up in service compared to Economy or Premium Economy on basically every airline I've flown (including AA). AA's definition probably has more to do with the difference in service in Biz class compared to PE and coach, as opposed to differences in seat configuration between Economy, MCE, PE, and Biz.

Dave Noble

I am not aware of anyone disputing that the agent was incorrect - the point is that AA is unclear in its terms. It does highlight that it is a different class in the webpage where it mentions that upgrades to PE will come 'soon' - hopefully it will finally eventuate

If AA is giving out misleading information, it seems unsuprising that some people get misled

nk15

That GA is a supervisor at a major international airport, he has dealt with this hundreds of times, how does he not know what we all know here...And none of his colleagues have been able to correct him, this is so strange...

meechyathere

The Executive Liaison that reached out to me told me in no uncertain terms that PE was lumped in with economy, and that therefore the 'next class of service' from economy was J. But there is nobody you can call in the moment, unless there is an EL you have established a rapport with, who would be able to override a GA.

My plan, should this happen again, is to run to the nearest AC/FL and ask for a supervisor there.

IADCAflyer

Whats a typical transatlantic upcharge from WT to WT+ (thinking LON-NYC or LON-BOS)?

Dave Noble

That addional APD for UK is £101

nk15

There is often not enough time for this, as the upgrades are being processed right before boarding begins, and it is very stressful to leave the gate at that moment. Another option is to print out the email you just mentioned from Executive Liaison and bring it with you, although it may not be sufficient. We all need to print out a couple of answers from authoritative sources and carry them with us at all times, lol...

nk15

Personally, before the pandemic I would try to book W (or worst case P) fare classes and upgrade with only 15k miles, which is the sweet spot, I believe, if you can find the W/P fares cheap (sometimes you can, including via AA vacations). This ensures you are at least in PE, and also protects you from incompetent GAs in the upgrade process, like in this scenario.

Since the pandemic, I just book I fares or J with miles or C inventory at booking, I am not risking it at all.

Hoosbest

I put these SWUs and companion certificates in the same bucket - worthless. I have so many SWUs and rhey never work. Even with both CK and EP status in our house - AA is not upgrading folks now all that much - and upselling most seats. The days of 7 days out upgrades and ability to use a $99 companion ticket no longer exist. My latest on companion ticket was the fare class wasn’t available - so I couldn’t use it. I was just trying to fly coach and flight was wide open. Upgrades have been far a few this year.

MSPeconomist

Yes. I know this because I recently used DL GUCs (DL's version of SWUs) to upgrade a DL TATL LHR trip from PS (DL's genuine premium economy) to D1 (DL's business class). No additional APD was due, although the phone agent initially tried to charge me for it twice, when the ticket was reissued. I corrected him and then researched the issue a bit.....and didn't pay nay more in the end.

OTOH DL sells C+ (comfort plus, seats located at the front of the coach cabin with slightly more pitch and free alcohol) as a separate booking class and uses free "upgrade" language to describe it. C+ counts as coach for the UK APD.

To further confuse things, sometimes when an aircraft doesn't have D1, PS, C+ and regular coach seats, people booked in C+ are given PS seats for free, with C+ service, so that the PS cabin is marketed as C+ on that flight. In other cases, when customers have purchased PS but the aircraft used for the flight doesn't have a PS cabin, they tend to be given C+ seats if available and this is treated as an involuntary downgrade (or they can be rebooked onto a flight that does have PS, but they're generally not placed in D1 for free).