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AA ending all service to ISP (Long Island-Islip) and ITH (Ithaca, NY)

AA ending all service to ISP (Long Island-Islip) and ITH (Ithaca, NY)

Old Jun 22, 22, 9:53 pm
  #31  
 
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I spent some time in Ithaca as a grad student.
I never flew in/out of ITH though.
The ITH flights were always so expensive (at least for a student on a budget) that I always ended up flying from ROC or SYR and asking a favor from that friend that had a car.
Or take the bus to 42nd st, then metro, then airtrain to JFK.
Good times.
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Old Jun 22, 22, 9:56 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by KBMIFlyer View Post
Regional Jets are not going away. Americans regional jet partners are buying new CRJ900s and ERJ 175s. What will be going away are the 50 seat ERJ145s. These are just getting too expensive to run with the increased cost of pilots and fuel and most are 20 years old or more. Look for cities that are primarily ERJ145s destinations to be axed next. There are a bunch of these across the PHL, CLT, ORD, and DFW hubs
Where would American be getting CRJ’s from? CRJ’s are no longer being produced and its supposed successor aircraft, the Mitsubishi SpaceJet, looks like it’s probably never going to be produced due to heavy developmental delays and economic hardship caused by COVID. If cities served by ERJ-145s are going to be axed, then American’s network looks like it’s going to shrink significantly, especially as far as DFW and ORD go. What’s going to happen to an airport like ABI, which only sees ERJ-145 service and is its area’s only connection to major air service since both DFW and DAL are 3+ hours away and no other airports with even a decent amount of outside service are even further away?
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Old Jun 22, 22, 10:06 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by carlosdca View Post
I spent some time in Ithaca as a grad student.
I never flew in/out of ITH though.
The ITH flights were always so expensive (at least for a student on a budget) that I always ended up flying from ROC or SYR and asking a favor from that friend that had a car.
Or take the bus to 42nd st, then metro, then airtrain to JFK.
Good times.
Pre-pandemic, there was a reasonably priced (~ $17 one way) Trailways morning bus from Elmira to SYR Airport that picked up in Ithaca (and Dryden and Cortland). It took 1:40 to make the trip, which wasn't too bad, considering that the nonstop drive takes about 1:15.

That route has been eliminated, replaced by an early afternoon service from Ithaca to SYR Airport that departs in the early afternoon. Sadly, the fare on that bus is $41.
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Old Jun 22, 22, 10:39 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by nwt0 View Post
Where would American be getting CRJ’s from? CRJ’s are no longer being produced and its supposed successor aircraft, the Mitsubishi SpaceJet, looks like it’s probably never going to be produced due to heavy developmental delays and economic hardship caused by COVID. If cities served by ERJ-145s are going to be axed, then American’s network looks like it’s going to shrink significantly, especially as far as DFW and ORD go. What’s going to happen to an airport like ABI, which only sees ERJ-145 service and is its area’s only connection to major air service since both DFW and DAL are 3+ hours away and no other airports with even a decent amount of outside service are even further away?
I suspect that -- eventually -- smaller airports which have a large enough population of flyers in their catchment area will get E-170's or E-175's. As for those airports that cannot fill up those somewhat larger planes with fares high enough to turn a profit* for the carrier, well, in the words of the Blues Brothers, "If it don't bounce back, you go hungry!"

* And by "profit," I mean a profit that exceeds the profit an airline could make by deploying the available aircraft and crews elsewhere.
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Old Jun 22, 22, 10:45 pm
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Originally Posted by guv1976 View Post
I suspect that -- eventually -- smaller airports which have a large enough population of flyers in their catchment area will get E-170's or E-175's. As for those airports that cannot fill up those somewhat larger planes with fares high enough to turn a profit* for the carrier, well, in the words of the Blues Brothers, "If it don't bounce back, you go hungry!"

* And by "profit," I mean a profit that exceeds the profit an airline could make by deploying the available aircraft and crews elsewhere.
So which current Eagle markets served from ORD do you think could handle the E-Jets as replacements for the ERJ-145s?
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Old Jun 22, 22, 10:58 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by nwt0 View Post
So which current Eagle markets served from ORD do you think could handle the E-Jets as replacements for the ERJ-145s?
No idea. I'm sure that AA's analysts will look at the Eagle markets and make predictions about which ones can profitably support service with the larger aircraft. I can envision the possibility that some communities might have to come up with revenue guarantees to keep existing routes and/or get new routes. Coincidentally, Ithaca had to provide Northwest with a revenue guarantee years ago to attract ITH-DTW service (currently operated by Delta):

https://www.ithaca.com/opinion/maint...1c2bf3ec3.html

As far as I know, the ITH-DTW service met Northwest's financial expectations, and no money was ever paid out from the revenue guarantee.
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Old Jun 22, 22, 10:59 pm
  #37  
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Originally Posted by kochleffel View Post
In the olden days, Allegheny/US served both ELM and ITH from PIT with mainline jets, in a triangle route (PIT-ELM-ITH).

To my mind, JFK is a harder drive than EWR even if it isn't much farther, and YYZ even more so because of the complicated route from Elmira to Buffalo. The other consideration is that, for an international flight, you're probably arriving in the metro area during the afternoon rush hour. I have Nexus so the border crossing isn't much of an issue, and the Peace Bridge usually isn't congested in the middle of the day; I should think more about flying from YYZ.
In the even older days, Slowhawk/UselessAir had a flight from PIT to ITH with five segments. One of the stops was Williamsport, PA, in addition to Elmira. I think the others might have been Lockhaven, PA, and maybe Altoona, PA but I don't remember except that it required about the same amount of time to drive, roughly eight hours whether you took secondary roads or tried to stay on the PA Turnpike and other highways. It was a small plane with propellers.

BTW, did DL stop serving ITH? PreCOVID-19, they had two or three CRJ-200 flights per day to DTW.

The US/AA flights from ITH were good for convenient connections in PHL to BA TATL to LHR and connections beyond.
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Old Jun 22, 22, 11:07 pm
  #38  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
BTW, did DL stop serving ITH? PreCOVID-19, they had two or three CRJ-200 flights per day to DTW.
Currently, DL offers one daily roundtrip between DTW and ITH. The service is usually on a CRJ-200, but I've occasionally seen it operated with a CR-9.

Whether DL or UA will increase their ITH frequencies or up-gauge the equipment serving ITH after AA pulls out remains to be seen. Given the current pilot shortage, I'm not sure how likely increased frequencies will be.
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Old Jun 22, 22, 11:16 pm
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This article from a local ITH outlet quotes the airport’s director saying they’re still in talks to keep AA service:

“Based on these significant load factors, we are working to retain American Airlines’ service to ITH and have also assembled a team of community leaders and stakeholders who are strategically reaching out to our current carriers, Delta Airlines and United, on increasing service as well as diligently working to attract additional carriers to ITH,” Noble said in the press release.
https://ithacavoice.com/2022/06/amer...te-objections/
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Old Jun 23, 22, 8:00 am
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If fuel cost were the only concern, airlines would return to operating feeder routes with turboprops. I'm not saying that anyone here loved the Dash-8, though the flights were always full. But a turboprop still requires two pilots.
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Old Jun 23, 22, 8:02 am
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Originally Posted by guv1976 View Post
Currently, DL offers one daily roundtrip between DTW and ITH. The service is usually on a CRJ-200, but I've occasionally seen it operated with a CR-9.

Whether DL or UA will increase their ITH frequencies or up-gauge the equipment serving ITH after AA pulls out remains to be seen. Given the current pilot shortage, I'm not sure how likely increased frequencies will be.
The UA service at ITH is with a CRJ-550, that is, a CRJ-700 with many more premium seats. I'm not sure whether that's a great fit for the Ithaca market. I suppose that Cornell and IC faculty might be willing to pay for the seats; maybe students aren't a major share of the passengers.
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Old Jun 23, 22, 9:25 am
  #42  
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Originally Posted by kochleffel View Post
If fuel cost were the only concern, airlines would return to operating feeder routes with turboprops. I'm not saying that anyone here loved the Dash-8, though the flights were always full. But a turboprop still requires two pilots.
Yeah the current version, the ATR isn't all that bad a ride and the 72 obviously has similar capacity to the Embraers but much lower cost. Not sure how quick or easy it would be to acquire a fleet of aircraft and pilots though!

I'm actually surprised that AA is still flying so many of the smaller E145s, I think they're all gone from DL and UA. But maybe the most comparable is the CRJ200 and those are on the "avoid list" - not sure if they're better or worse than the E145s, at least the latter has a single-seat side.
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Old Jun 23, 22, 10:18 am
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by ijgordon View Post
Did they ever try? I only remember ISP-PHL flights in recent years. That said, unless you can fly nonstop from ISP, you're just better off flying into JFK/LGA and driving, as it will probably be cheaper and faster than making a connection.
Actually, this will be my story after Labor Day as I now live on the North Fork. I didn't mind having the PHL connection for some flights (although the morning flight at 6am out of ISP was tough) like IAH, MCI, et al. For Florida I usually took Frontier as it had a good option to Orlando where our son lives. Frankly, most of my flights to and from ISP on AA were always very close to capacity and I wondered why they didn't offer more flights. Or shudders, a 175 for J seats. They have several flights a day from JFK to RIC and CLE and the CLE flights are rarely more than 50% full. The basing logistics notwithstanding, they could have used that aircraft (and crew) to support ISP.
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Old Jun 23, 22, 10:20 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by Disarray View Post
No, they never tried. AA inherited the ISP -> PHL from UsAir. I had heard rumblings of a flight from ISP to CLT or RDU from people who claimed inside information but nothing materialized.

This move will probably be the end of my relationship with AA. AA’s offerings out of JFK are next to nothing, I now fly Delta when I take the train to JFK. LGA is too difficult to get to for me to make it a viable alternative.
100% agree with you - I leave my car at Ronkonkoma LIRR and train/Airtrain to JFK. LGA is a non -starter for me due to the unpredictability of traffic on the LIE/CIP/GCP in the morning.
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Old Jun 23, 22, 10:22 am
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by guv1976 View Post
While it would take a little longer to get to LGA by train, it's not that much longer. The LIRR takes about 10 minutes to get from Jamaica to Woodside, where you can catch the (free) Q70-SBS bus to LGA. That bus makes one stop at the big Jackson Heights subway station, and then operates nonstop to LGA. So if LGA makes sense on a particular trip (whether on AA or DL), I think that public transportation could still work for you.
Your logistics are spot on but this is a hassle especially if you have luggage. You would almost be better taking the LIRR to Woodside and then taking Uber / Lyft to LGA. When I'm in Manhattan from work and have a late afternoon flight from LGA, I take the N/Q to Ditmars and then Uber from there.
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