500-mile upgrades / stickers converting to Loyalty Points; discussion, options
Jul 13, 2022, 10:54 am
#211
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Wanting First. Buying First.
Programs: Lifetime Executive Diamond Platinum VIP with Braniff, Eastern, Midway, National & Pan Am
Posts: 17,481
A) Those who really wanted upgrades were more likely to get them
B) The incremental revenue from sticker sales theoretically gave AA a reason to invest in the product
And for those of us who usually buy domestic F, it's hard to argue that a paradigm of domestic F existing as something to be primarily given away for free is a good way to create an industry-leading quality product one would actually enjoy buying (and be willing to pay an even higher premium to purchase)
Sticker sales were another way for AA to monetize the domestic F cabin. And a monetized cabin can support a far better product that a cabin whose seats are primarily given away for free.
Jul 13, 2022, 11:03 am
#212
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Programs: AA Ex-Plat, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 670
- 500-mile upgrades purchased after April 19, 2022 are not eligible for a refund and will be converted to 250 Loyalty Points by July 31, 2022. Any 500-mile upgrades that aren’t used will be converted to 250 Loyalty Points.
Jul 13, 2022, 11:11 am
#213
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ USA
Programs: AA Life Gold, Marriott Platinum Elite
Posts: 472
No, it is not. Something which is free is inevitably overconsumed. The old system where upgrades had to be paid for with stickers was a far better system for two reasons:
A) Those who really wanted upgrades were more likely to get them
B) The incremental revenue from sticker sales theoretically gave AA a reason to invest in the product
A) Those who really wanted upgrades were more likely to get them
B) The incremental revenue from sticker sales theoretically gave AA a reason to invest in the product
Jul 13, 2022, 11:13 am
#214
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Wanting First. Buying First.
Programs: Lifetime Executive Diamond Platinum VIP with Braniff, Eastern, Midway, National & Pan Am
Posts: 17,481
Jul 13, 2022, 12:45 pm
#215
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Palm Beach/ New England
Programs: AA EXP 3MM, DL GM, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 4,382
As a data point: AA has refused to exchange the small number of purchased 500-mile upgrades on my account for miles, or to refund them. Their position is that I have not held AAdvantage status for some time (since 02/2011) and therefore can't expect a more positive response.
This program element termination has actually caused more hours on the phone for me (EXP) and spouse (non-elite) than anything done by AA in years. It's a badly designed termination. The conversion choices should have been opt-in with relatively equal values, rather than dumping all peeps into a conversion to one-year-expiring Loyalty Points (and with which most people are still unfamiliar). Remember, this is being done on unsuspecting millions of customers.
Jul 13, 2022, 3:16 pm
#216
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,641
If you call AA customer service, they should offer you 5,000 miles for each of them, x 324, for a total of 1.62 million miles, or a refund of $12,960. But you have to call in and likely soon, before the start converting them to LPs, if you prefer these deals.
Jul 13, 2022, 3:30 pm
#217
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 14,517
Is it confirmed whether non-elites will also receive LPs for their upgrades? Or do those just get wiped out? As a Gold, I got the email from AA yesterday. My mother is no longer elite but has a bunch of upgrades from back then, and she did not get any email.
Jul 13, 2022, 4:42 pm
#218
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
This sucks for me.
I fell to Kettle this year. Have 6500 LPs, and 21 e500s. So that's another 5250 LPs. I only have 2, maybe 3 trips planned for the rest of the year. At the Kettle rate, I'll probably only get another 7500 LPs from fares this year.
Don't have an AA CC, nor can I get one any way (fell on hard times and nearly lost everything). So the conversion pretty much gives me nothing.
For the earned e500s, this is an easy way for AA to dump all that liability without having to actually give anything for it. Anyone who has lifetime status, is a Kettle, or is nowhere near qualifying for the next tier gets absolutely nothing of value.
I think this is the final nail in the coffin for me with AA. I had been debating jumping now that I'm not married to any airline, and I think this'll give me the push to finally do so. I'm just short of 50k RDMs, so I'll probably hit that threshold so I can have enough for a domestic F ticket, and call it good.
I fell to Kettle this year. Have 6500 LPs, and 21 e500s. So that's another 5250 LPs. I only have 2, maybe 3 trips planned for the rest of the year. At the Kettle rate, I'll probably only get another 7500 LPs from fares this year.
Don't have an AA CC, nor can I get one any way (fell on hard times and nearly lost everything). So the conversion pretty much gives me nothing.
For the earned e500s, this is an easy way for AA to dump all that liability without having to actually give anything for it. Anyone who has lifetime status, is a Kettle, or is nowhere near qualifying for the next tier gets absolutely nothing of value.
I think this is the final nail in the coffin for me with AA. I had been debating jumping now that I'm not married to any airline, and I think this'll give me the push to finally do so. I'm just short of 50k RDMs, so I'll probably hit that threshold so I can have enough for a domestic F ticket, and call it good.
Last edited by Superguy; Jul 13, 2022 at 5:03 pm
Jul 13, 2022, 6:06 pm
#219
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA LT Gold; BA Silver; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,081
LP are just for status. They don't so much "expire" as reset to 0 every year.
You do not get miles for the stickers; just LP.
Another way of thinking of this is that your stickers aren't being taken away. You're just being given infinitely many of them. And so is everyone else.
You do not get miles for the stickers; just LP.
Another way of thinking of this is that your stickers aren't being taken away. You're just being given infinitely many of them. And so is everyone else.
It did occur to me that on occasions like the trip I'm making with my 2 granddaughters, ages 8 and 5, in October, from DSM-ORD, only one would be upgraded.
Hmmmm...which one do I like better?
Jul 13, 2022, 6:15 pm
#220
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,277
This change -- basically the elimination of e500s (fka electronic stickers) is not being done for the benefit of the customer, nor even for the upfront AA revenue stream -- it will actually reduce top-line revenue.
It is being done because AA wants to reduce the number of Gate Agents, possibly to one per domestic flight. They have been looking at ways to reduce the workload on GAs -- several of which revolved around the AAdvantage program, namely:
- Customers inquiring about the upgrade and standby waitlists (the upgrade queries are supposed to be reduced by auto-processing at t-40, before boarding begins)
- Customers asking about upgrading companions (this change will help to reduce those questions, especially if they involve issuing new e500s, which could be a time-consuming gate ticketing process)
- Customers asking about seat changes -- still will be a problem, but AA has tried to get this online as much as possible
If one GA can operate one domestic flight, it could greatly reduce the headcount AA has to maintain at each station.
It is being done because AA wants to reduce the number of Gate Agents, possibly to one per domestic flight. They have been looking at ways to reduce the workload on GAs -- several of which revolved around the AAdvantage program, namely:
- Customers inquiring about the upgrade and standby waitlists (the upgrade queries are supposed to be reduced by auto-processing at t-40, before boarding begins)
- Customers asking about upgrading companions (this change will help to reduce those questions, especially if they involve issuing new e500s, which could be a time-consuming gate ticketing process)
- Customers asking about seat changes -- still will be a problem, but AA has tried to get this online as much as possible
If one GA can operate one domestic flight, it could greatly reduce the headcount AA has to maintain at each station.
). I'll be impressed if AA has found some magic new innovative way to make it work, but I expect not. There's just too much that needs to be done close to departure that having a gate agent try to board the plane and handle all the other customer inquiries/needs is too much for one person to handle. Next time you fly just look how often there is someone up at the desk getting assistance while the flight is being boarded - it happens far more frequently than we realize, especially if we're some of the first to board, which I suspect many of us here are.
Jul 13, 2022, 6:29 pm
#221
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: San Francisco
Programs: AA EXP; Marriott BonVoy Titanium Elite, Marriott LT Plat.
Posts: 1,717
Not that this helps, but the AA position seems to be that since non-elites cannot use e500s, they also are not eligible for refunding.
This program element termination has actually caused more hours on the phone for me (EXP) and spouse (non-elite) than anything done by AA in years. It's a badly designed termination. The conversion choices should have been opt-in with relatively equal values, rather than dumping all peeps into a conversion to one-year-expiring Loyalty Points (and with which most people are still unfamiliar). Remember, this is being done on unsuspecting millions of customers.
This program element termination has actually caused more hours on the phone for me (EXP) and spouse (non-elite) than anything done by AA in years. It's a badly designed termination. The conversion choices should have been opt-in with relatively equal values, rather than dumping all peeps into a conversion to one-year-expiring Loyalty Points (and with which most people are still unfamiliar). Remember, this is being done on unsuspecting millions of customers.
Yea... I agree.. lots of people are just going to toss their hands up in the air and not care anymore. My non-elite SO got the email to convert e500's to LP. OW... The best thing we try to do is just keep the account active in hopes of just cashing it out for an epic trip "one of these days". LOL
Jul 13, 2022, 8:05 pm
#222
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: DCA
Programs: AA EXP 1MM, WOH Globalist
Posts: 1,160
Serious question: why did you pay thousands of dollars for hundreds of these? Why not just buy them as you needed them for your companion?
Jul 13, 2022, 8:21 pm
#223
formerly wchinchen
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Honolulu
Programs: AA CK, UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,252
Agree. My personal hope is that AA automates things even more with defined upgrade factors, so everything can be automated app based. So many people argue they like UA’s interface, but this is the chance for AA to make SWUs, upgrades, and waitlists more automated for a robust app. This will eliminate the misinterpretation of upgrade rules by staff; as evident in recent posts about failure for #1/2 on upgrade list to use SWUs and #3/4 got upgraded.
Jul 13, 2022, 9:06 pm
#224
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Jose, CA USA
Posts: 1,791
All I can say is that my investment is about to pay off to the tune of 5,000 mi for each the 324 upgrades. I did the math. Well into 7 figures. Just off the phone with the Advantage Cust Svc agent. They are cranking it though, as other FT'ers have mentioned would happen. For the 1,620,000 forthcoming, I can withstand the interrogation. Wife had even more. It also reveals an underlying problem I have as a hoarder, which I'll have to submit as my private pain.
I also had Microsoft, Cisco, and Applet in the early 90's.
I also had Microsoft, Cisco, and Applet in the early 90's.
Jul 13, 2022, 11:38 pm
#225
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Berlin
Programs: BA Gold; Accor Plat; IHG Diamond-Amb; Meliá & HH & Marriott Gold
Posts: 5,447
But in theory there was always a chance I'd come back for a year or two, if only to get from 750,000 to 1MM.
In at least some cases, though, the answer will include "credit card": people bought these to meet minimum spend, earn LT miles back when all miles counted and/or bought them with 'free' AmEx travel credit. (Not answering for FullFare here, of course.)
Last edited by IMH; Jul 14, 2022 at 6:08 am Reason: punctuation
