Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums >
Reload this Page >

Miles&Points

Airlines and Mileage Programs

American Airlines | AAdvantage

No 24 hour refund if using trip credit

No 24 hour refund if using trip credit

Old Sep 5, 22, 1:31 pm
  #46  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: LAX, SNA, LGB
Posts: 336
Originally Posted by USFlyerUS View Post
I disagree. Adding a trip credit in the form of a previously used ticket and having to pay an add/collect is exactly this. I did this just last week. I cancelled an existing PNR, rebooked 15 min later applying the previously issued ticket, and paid an A/C. At no point in the process did I think I'd get a refund of the A/C if I cancelled within 24 hours. If I had held the ticket for several weeks or months, I'd still have thought the same.

I do concede AA should make this more explicit by saying that, if you want to apply a trip credit, that you should instead hold the reservation for 24 hours if you think you might cancel.

Here's another way to look at it: Back when we had change fees, would you have expected the $200 change fee to also be refunded if cancelled within 24 hours? To my knowledge, it never would have been, on any carrier.
I think we are just looking to get the trip credit portion refunded as trip credit and the cash portion as cash. Not looking to get the trip credit refunded as cash. I think AA should make it clear that if trip credit is used any additional cash used to purchase a different ticket will then become trip credit. United allows trip credit to be refunded as trip credit and additional cash as cash if cancelled within 24 hours.
Antarius likes this.
hsumh316 is offline  
Old Sep 5, 22, 2:56 pm
  #47  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Programs: American Airlines, National Car Rental
Posts: 803
Based on my research, the DOT requires airlines to offer either:

1. 24-hour hold.
or
2. Refunds within 24 hours.

The DOT doesnt require airlines to offer both.

Since AA offers 1, it doesnt have to offer 2, so any lack of a refund for 2 would be governed by AA rules, not the DOTs requirement.

I welcome all corrections if Im wrong.
WeekendTraveler is offline  
Old Sep 5, 22, 3:22 pm
  #48  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AUS
Programs: AA Exec Platinum/MM, DL Silver/MM, Hilton Diamond, Hertz 5* Gold
Posts: 6,589
Originally Posted by WeekendTraveler View Post
Based on my research, the DOT requires airlines to offer either:

1. 24-hour hold.
or
2. Refunds within 24 hours.

The DOT doesn’t require airlines to offer both.

Since AA offers 1, it doesn’t have to offer 2, so any lack of a refund for 2 would be governed by AA rules, not the DOT’s requirement.

I welcome all corrections if I’m wrong.
AA effectively offers both, even though it doesn't have to. I have never had a problem putting a reservation on hold, ticketing it the next day, then cancelling for a refund the day after that.

However, the 24 hour refund policy gets murky when partially paying with a credit. I think that means no cash refund for any of it. Just a credit for the whole thing that probably expires when the original credit was set to expire. I can't find any T&Cs that address this scenario specifically.
Antarius and hsumh316 like this.
Stripe is offline  
Old Sep 5, 22, 5:58 pm
  #49  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Programs: American Airlines, National Car Rental
Posts: 803
Originally Posted by Lohrip View Post
Any ideas on how to proceed? I can file a complaint with the DOT but I assume they don't actually advocate for individual cases, right? It will just go into a repository of complaints? For $5000 I could hire a lawyer to help, if there are any lawyers that handle this kind of small airline-related case.
I had a similar issue: I placed several tickets on hold, paid for them in part using flight credits and AA charged much more than the fare that was on hold- and even more than the then-current online price. And for one of the new tickets, the agent definitely didnt mention the total fare for the new ticket.

I checked my receipts both are labeled exchange and ticket change. Even though the new ticket has a new PNR and new ticket number.

I researched the CFR provisions and DOT guidance on point and do not see a basis for this.

I suggest a well-researched and well supported letter to the DOT, not just an online submission.

The DOT has penalized AA for refund violations (the documentation is on the DOT website), and the DOT states that it acted based on consumer complaints. Further, one guy submitted his own request for rulemaking and even though the DOT (under Bush II) declined to, it did consider it: https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/eo-2003-3-11

If anyone is interested in working on this together, please let me know.

Last edited by WeekendTraveler; Sep 5, 22 at 6:11 pm
WeekendTraveler is offline  
Old Sep 6, 22, 10:19 am
  #50  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,612
Originally Posted by USFlyerUS View Post
I disagree. Adding a trip credit in the form of a previously used ticket and having to pay an add/collect is exactly this. I did this just last week. I cancelled an existing PNR, rebooked 15 min later applying the previously issued ticket, and paid an A/C. At no point in the process did I think I'd get a refund of the A/C if I cancelled within 24 hours. If I had held the ticket for several weeks or months, I'd still have thought the same.
You might not have thought that, but what part of the experience was different in any way from booking a new ticket with, e.g., a gift card instead of a trip credit? How would someone that doesn't understand the underlying ticketing mechanics come to understand that they are somehow waiving the right to a 24 hour refund? As you yourself acknowledge, it's not called out in any way on the website.
Antarius likes this.
jordyn is offline  
Old Sep 6, 22, 10:24 am
  #51  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,612
Originally Posted by WeekendTraveler View Post
Based on my research, the DOT requires airlines to offer either:

1. 24-hour hold.
or
2. Refunds within 24 hours.

The DOT doesnt require airlines to offer both.

Since AA offers 1, it doesnt have to offer 2, so any lack of a refund for 2 would be governed by AA rules, not the DOTs requirement.
They don't have to offer both, but once they do the offer is binding, otherwise it would be an obvious bait and switch. (Which is actually the case here.) There's no exception to using a trip credit in any of the language around the 24 hour refund on their website.
Antarius and WeekendTraveler like this.
jordyn is offline  
Old Sep 6, 22, 4:24 pm
  #52  
Original Member
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT
Posts: 14,008
Originally Posted by Lohrip View Post
Thanks Dave Noble. You say "hold an unused ticket for further travel...." In my experience I received a flight credit, and applied it to a future ticket (at least those are the words the AA agents used). But are you saying the reality was that my ticked was held for further travel, and the application of a flight credit to a different reservation was just a "shorthand" description but not really true?
Correct. Flight credit is simply portion of prior ticket which has not been used as evident by the ticket number remains unchanged when telling agent you have a flight credit.
seawolf is offline  
Old Sep 6, 22, 4:36 pm
  #53  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA "mid tier" elite | Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador | Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 8,887
Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
Correct. Flight credit is simply portion of prior ticket which has not been used as evident by the ticket number remains unchanged when telling agent you have a flight credit.
I don't disagree with your point, but it takes someone who knows a decent amount about how this works or cares enough to find out to be able to understand that.

There is no one in my family or friend group that this would be obvious to. And I'm confident that this statement applies to the vast majority of non airline and aviation geeks.

Credits are like store credit to most people. Must be used at the store, cannot be exchanged for cash and thats about it.
jordyn likes this.
Antarius is offline  
Old Sep 6, 22, 5:59 pm
  #54  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Programs: American Airlines, National Car Rental
Posts: 803
Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
Correct. Flight credit is simply portion of prior ticket which has not been used as evident by the ticket number remains unchanged when telling agent you have a flight credit.
When Ive placed reservations on hold and then called AA to pay for them with flight credits-and been charged more than the held fare was- the tickets that are issued have new ticket numbers, different than the cancelled ticket numbers.
WeekendTraveler is offline  
Old Sep 6, 22, 5:59 pm
  #55  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,612
Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
Correct. Flight credit is simply portion of prior ticket which has not been used as evident by the ticket number remains unchanged when telling agent you have a flight credit.
As evidence that this theory is incorrect, you can apply up to eight flight credits to a single flight so obviously this is not consistently true.
Antarius likes this.
jordyn is offline  
Old Sep 6, 22, 6:30 pm
  #56  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 42,711
Originally Posted by Antarius View Post
Credits are like store credit to most people. Must be used at the store, cannot be exchanged for cash and thats about it.
With store credit, this is a situation where the store is choosing to offer credit for some reason other than one where there is an entitlement to a refund. With store credit, the store can choose to impose restrictions on the use of credit - e.g. it could refuse a voluntary return of an item purchased on credit where it would accept that return when purchased with money

It seems from one of the replies above that this issue has previously been referred to DOT and it has sided with the airline - maybe the OP here will have a differemt response
Dave Noble is offline  
Old Sep 6, 22, 6:41 pm
  #57  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Programs: American Airlines, National Car Rental
Posts: 803
Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
It seems from one of the replies above that this issue has previously been referred to DOT and it has sided with the airline
None of the enforcement actions on the DOT website indicate this but perhaps it just hasnt been published.
WeekendTraveler is offline  
Old Sep 6, 22, 7:24 pm
  #58  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 42,711
Originally Posted by WeekendTraveler View Post
None of the enforcement actions on the DOT website indicate this but perhaps it just hasnt been published.
I was going by the comment in post 41
Dave Noble is offline  
Old Sep 7, 22, 4:01 am
  #59  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: LAX, SNA, LGB
Posts: 336
Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
With store credit, this is a situation where the store is choosing to offer credit for some reason other than one where there is an entitlement to a refund. With store credit, the store can choose to impose restrictions on the use of credit - e.g. it could refuse a voluntary return of an item purchased on credit where it would accept that return when purchased with money

It seems from one of the replies above that this issue has previously been referred to DOT and it has sided with the airline - maybe the OP here will have a differemt response
Usually the restrictions are stated at stores and this is where it is muddy with AA. I dont think what AA is doing is wrong, Im just saying they should be more transparent about it and that was the main complaint which DOT still has not done anything about. I think for most people they would think that they would get the refund of cash as cash and trip credit as trip credit. United does it that way. I actually did this with United prior to doing this with AA but each airline has their own policy which should be made clear.

DOT does say: If our review of your complaint and the response from the company discloses a potential violation of our rules, we may pursue enforcement action. Generally, we pursue enforcement action on the basis of a number of complaints which may indicate a pattern or practice of violating our rules
hsumh316 is offline  
Old Sep 7, 22, 4:18 am
  #60  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Programs: American Airlines, National Car Rental
Posts: 803
Originally Posted by hsumh316 View Post
Usually the restrictions are stated at stores and this is where it is muddy with AA. I dont think what AA is doing is wrong, Im just saying they should be more transparent about it and that was the main complaint which DOT still has not done anything about. I think for most people they would think that they would get the refund of cash as cash and trip credit as trip credit. United does it that way. I actually did this with United prior to doing this with AA but each airline has their own policy which should be made clear.

DOT does say: If our review of your complaint and the response from the company discloses a potential violation of our rules, we may pursue enforcement action. Generally, we pursue enforcement action on the basis of a number of complaints which may indicate a pattern or practice of violating our rules
I agree that AA isnt clear but should be. Just what does hold mean if AA doesnt honor the fare that was placed on hold?
WeekendTraveler is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread