AA Operated by PSA No small rollaboard carry on baggage?
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: DSM
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Posts: 1,035
AA Operated by PSA No small rollaboard carry on baggage?
Finishing my third flight of the day on CRJ-700. Flying first class and as I tried to board was told I can’t bring my small roller board into the cabin. My bag is small and easily fits above the seats on the starboard side.
When I questioned this, I was told by the flight attendant that it’s a “company policy.” Never had this happen before in dozens of similar flights.
I know this is a first world issue but strange…
When I questioned this, I was told by the flight attendant that it’s a “company policy.” Never had this happen before in dozens of similar flights.
I know this is a first world issue but strange…
#4
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: Choice Hotels
Posts: 761
I have a pilot size rollaboard that I purchased specifically because it fits in the overheads on the CRJ7/CR9. I enjoy bringing it onboard on Skywest and Mesa flights. I actively avoid PSA because of the nonsense. I have flown at least 50 flights on non-PSA CRJ flights and have seen zero issues with allowing small rollaboards. It is a stupid and pointless rule.
#5
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: Many Affiliations: AA ExPlat, AA MM Gold Lifetime+, Hilton Diamond and such
Posts: 132
Finishing my third flight of the day on CRJ-700. Flying first class and as I tried to board was told I can’t bring my small roller board into the cabin. My bag is small and easily fits above the seats on the starboard side.
When I questioned this, I was told by the flight attendant that it’s a “company policy.” Never had this happen before in dozens of similar flights.
I know this is a first world issue but strange…
When I questioned this, I was told by the flight attendant that it’s a “company policy.” Never had this happen before in dozens of similar flights.
I know this is a first world issue but strange…
AGE
#6
Join Date: Jan 2017
Programs: Some/Most/All
Posts: 224
I was flying a lot of those flights when the rule went into effect. The story I got was they had a lot of broken bins and delayed/canceled flights because of people who insisted that their 'not-full-size' roller bag would fit just fine. Until it didn't. So, they made a simple rule: if it has wheels, it goes in the back, no exceptions. And, for the record, I carried on a max-legal shoulder bag plenty of times and no one ever said a word, since it didn't have wheels. Getting the FA to put it in the closet was another matter altogether. /rolleyes (ETA: It fit into the bins just fine, it was just hard to find a spot if you were tight on a connection and one of the last people to board.)
#7
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,138
It's their weight and balance program for the CRJ.
By not allowing full-sized carry-ons in the cabin, they can use a lower average passenger weight (which includes the weight of cabin bags) then count the gate checked bags and add a standard weight for each of them.
If they chose to allow but a carry-on and personal item into the cabin they'd have to use a higher average weight for each passenger in their calculations and, for many flights, would end up more weight restricted. These programs are common on CRJ and E145 operators.
By not allowing full-sized carry-ons in the cabin, they can use a lower average passenger weight (which includes the weight of cabin bags) then count the gate checked bags and add a standard weight for each of them.
If they chose to allow but a carry-on and personal item into the cabin they'd have to use a higher average weight for each passenger in their calculations and, for many flights, would end up more weight restricted. These programs are common on CRJ and E145 operators.
#8
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: Choice Hotels
Posts: 761
Thanks for the information. I completely understand what you are saying. However, I have been on a completely full CR7 between OKC and LAX on Skywest many times, and they allow roll-a-boards as long as they fit in the bins. They had no problems with weight, balance, or being able to fill up the aircraft on a flight that hits the upper end of the range of the aircraft. I've also been on full mesa CR9 aircraft on longer flights like DFW-BFL and DFW-JAX with no issues as well. I don't understand how a rollaboards cause issues on a PSA CRJ but not on a Skywest or Mesa CRJ.
It's their weight and balance program for the CRJ.
By not allowing full-sized carry-ons in the cabin, they can use a lower average passenger weight (which includes the weight of cabin bags) then count the gate checked bags and add a standard weight for each of them.
If they chose to allow but a carry-on and personal item into the cabin they'd have to use a higher average weight for each passenger in their calculations and, for many flights, would end up more weight restricted. These programs are common on CRJ and E145 operators.
By not allowing full-sized carry-ons in the cabin, they can use a lower average passenger weight (which includes the weight of cabin bags) then count the gate checked bags and add a standard weight for each of them.
If they chose to allow but a carry-on and personal item into the cabin they'd have to use a higher average weight for each passenger in their calculations and, for many flights, would end up more weight restricted. These programs are common on CRJ and E145 operators.
#9
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 70
Been a bit since i've worked in the regional world. The weight and balance program is individual to each airline. When I was at expressjet technically per the FOM nothing more than a personal item (+ a few cutouts for certain items) was allowed in cabin. This lowered average pax weight and led to less WxB issues on paper. When you do your representative routes and average weight every few years you run those per the FOM and boom suddenly average pax weight is less than normal( total weight remains same for those evaluated flights but it helps out for everything else after). This led to the side affect of FA's who knew the actual rule being bag nazi's which hurts the customer experience. Only thing worse than an annoying rule is one thats very selectively enforced.
Even things like closets we had a floor load limit which when crew bags were in there were more than likely maxed out. So some FA's would decline to put pax stuff in there others would break that limit.
On CRJs a full 22inch rollaboard fits but I doubt their WxB program is approved for that, For smaller bags there is inconsistency cause FA's get abused by their mgmt. Flight doesn't meet D0 cause bags had to swim upstream to go get gatechecked FAs do the carpet dance so they get stricter on bags. Also training programs suck they are bare minimum so a lot of old wives tales or old standards stick around. Could be any of those things, different WxB programs among carriers maybe they are the same and only one is enforcing the actual rule(regionals aren't exactly pinnacles of .quality operations.)
EDIT:
Not privy to their WxB approvals but it could be they just don't enforce them. Say once every 2 years or whenever you do evaluations you are selective on those routes and enforce the rules. Then the other 99.99 percent of flights you wink wink nudge nudge the rules and let whatever onboard. As pilots we don't actually know anything about the cabin other than we have X passengers and average weight is 184(or w/e) + average bag weight of 7lbs(or whatever we weighed on that representative flight that we selectively picked and followed the rules) Maybe PSA actually taught their FA's the actual rule and said enforce it. Maybe SKW and Mesa let the information be buried in the FOM so FA's ignore it.
Even things like closets we had a floor load limit which when crew bags were in there were more than likely maxed out. So some FA's would decline to put pax stuff in there others would break that limit.
On CRJs a full 22inch rollaboard fits but I doubt their WxB program is approved for that, For smaller bags there is inconsistency cause FA's get abused by their mgmt. Flight doesn't meet D0 cause bags had to swim upstream to go get gatechecked FAs do the carpet dance so they get stricter on bags. Also training programs suck they are bare minimum so a lot of old wives tales or old standards stick around. Could be any of those things, different WxB programs among carriers maybe they are the same and only one is enforcing the actual rule(regionals aren't exactly pinnacles of .quality operations.)
EDIT:
Thanks for the information. I completely understand what you are saying. However, I have been on a completely full CR7 between OKC and LAX on Skywest many times, and they allow roll-a-boards as long as they fit in the bins. They had no problems with weight, balance, or being able to fill up the aircraft on a flight that hits the upper end of the range of the aircraft. I've also been on full mesa CR9 aircraft on longer flights like DFW-BFL and DFW-JAX with no issues as well. I don't understand how a rollaboards cause issues on a PSA CRJ but not on a Skywest or Mesa CRJ.
Last edited by Falconkidding; Jan 22, 2022 at 10:52 am Reason: added a quote
#10
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: Choice Hotels
Posts: 761
Thanks for taking the time to type out your informative post. I feel somewhat less militant bout the whole issue now. I only had one flight booked on PSA coming up, OKC-DCA, but was changed to an E175 during the most recent schedule change. OKC-CLT has mainline options now.
Been a bit since i've worked in the regional world. The weight and balance program is individual to each airline. When I was at expressjet technically per the FOM nothing more than a personal item (+ a few cutouts for certain items) was allowed in cabin. This lowered average pax weight and led to less WxB issues on paper. When you do your representative routes and average weight every few years you run those per the FOM and boom suddenly average pax weight is less than normal( total weight remains same for those evaluated flights but it helps out for everything else after). This led to the side affect of FA's who knew the actual rule being bag nazi's which hurts the customer experience. Only thing worse than an annoying rule is one thats very selectively enforced.
Even things like closets we had a floor load limit which when crew bags were in there were more than likely maxed out. So some FA's would decline to put pax stuff in there others would break that limit.
On CRJs a full 22inch rollaboard fits but I doubt their WxB program is approved for that, For smaller bags there is inconsistency cause FA's get abused by their mgmt. Flight doesn't meet D0 cause bags had to swim upstream to go get gatechecked FAs do the carpet dance so they get stricter on bags. Also training programs suck they are bare minimum so a lot of old wives tales or old standards stick around. Could be any of those things, different WxB programs among carriers maybe they are the same and only one is enforcing the actual rule(regionals aren't exactly pinnacles of .quality operations.)
EDIT:
Not privy to their WxB approvals but it could be they just don't enforce them. Say once every 2 years or whenever you do evaluations you are selective on those routes and enforce the rules. Then the other 99.99 percent of flights you wink wink nudge nudge the rules and let whatever onboard. As pilots we don't actually know anything about the cabin other than we have X passengers and average weight is 184(or w/e) + average bag weight of 7lbs(or whatever we weighed on that representative flight that we selectively picked and followed the rules) Maybe PSA actually taught their FA's the actual rule and said enforce it. Maybe SKW and Mesa let the information be buried in the FOM so FA's ignore it.
Even things like closets we had a floor load limit which when crew bags were in there were more than likely maxed out. So some FA's would decline to put pax stuff in there others would break that limit.
On CRJs a full 22inch rollaboard fits but I doubt their WxB program is approved for that, For smaller bags there is inconsistency cause FA's get abused by their mgmt. Flight doesn't meet D0 cause bags had to swim upstream to go get gatechecked FAs do the carpet dance so they get stricter on bags. Also training programs suck they are bare minimum so a lot of old wives tales or old standards stick around. Could be any of those things, different WxB programs among carriers maybe they are the same and only one is enforcing the actual rule(regionals aren't exactly pinnacles of .quality operations.)
EDIT:
Not privy to their WxB approvals but it could be they just don't enforce them. Say once every 2 years or whenever you do evaluations you are selective on those routes and enforce the rules. Then the other 99.99 percent of flights you wink wink nudge nudge the rules and let whatever onboard. As pilots we don't actually know anything about the cabin other than we have X passengers and average weight is 184(or w/e) + average bag weight of 7lbs(or whatever we weighed on that representative flight that we selectively picked and followed the rules) Maybe PSA actually taught their FA's the actual rule and said enforce it. Maybe SKW and Mesa let the information be buried in the FOM so FA's ignore it.
#11
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,138
Thanks for the information. I completely understand what you are saying. However, I have been on a completely full CR7 between OKC and LAX on Skywest many times, and they allow roll-a-boards as long as they fit in the bins. They had no problems with weight, balance, or being able to fill up the aircraft on a flight that hits the upper end of the range of the aircraft. I've also been on full mesa CR9 aircraft on longer flights like DFW-BFL and DFW-JAX with no issues as well. I don't understand how a rollaboards cause issues on a PSA CRJ but not on a Skywest or Mesa CRJ.
Each airline (PSA, Skywest, etc.) has to choose one method or the other. They can't switch back and forth. Having the lower passenger weight then counting the carry-ons that are gate-checked, and allow them to take a full load more often than they could with the method that we're more accustom to.
#12
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: MCO-TPA
Programs: AA EXP, UA, B6, DL, Bonvoy Lifetime Platinum, Hilton, National
Posts: 195
Finishing my third flight of the day on CRJ-700. Flying first class and as I tried to board was told I can’t bring my small roller board into the cabin. My bag is small and easily fits above the seats on the starboard side.
When I questioned this, I was told by the flight attendant that it’s a “company policy.” Never had this happen before in dozens of similar flights.
I know this is a first world issue but strange…
When I questioned this, I was told by the flight attendant that it’s a “company policy.” Never had this happen before in dozens of similar flights.
I know this is a first world issue but strange…
#13
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gatwick, UK
Programs: UA *G, BA Silver
Posts: 1,669
This issue has been coming up for many years - it previous discussions the explanation was that each regional carrier has its own FAA Operating Certification and the rules about carry-on bags are part of that. As I had it explained to me, the PSA operating certificate does not allow any roll-aboards in the aircraft cabin.
Thus it is not an arbitrary rule, or a power-hungry FA, but a management choice that probably reaps benefits elsewhere (to compensate for passenger irritation).
Thus it is not an arbitrary rule, or a power-hungry FA, but a management choice that probably reaps benefits elsewhere (to compensate for passenger irritation).
#14
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 1
Just happened to me!
I am flying Pit to Clt with a COMPLETELY EMPTY ROLLABOARD….yes, not one thing in it…. Flight attendant said I couldn’t bring it on board….I squished it to basically flat and she said no….PSA flight (American). Such ........… I have a quick connection and now I will be fu****. They will get what they deserve when I get my survey….. funny thing is they let another person on with one…. Won’t elaborate here…. But I will say reverse discrimination is loud and clear here!
#15
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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I am flying Pit to Clt with a COMPLETELY EMPTY ROLLABOARD….yes, not one thing in it…. Flight attendant said I couldn’t bring it on board….I squished it to basically flat and she said no….PSA flight (American). Such ........… I have a quick connection and now I will be fu****. They will get what they deserve when I get my survey….. funny thing is they let another person on with one…. Won’t elaborate here…. But I will say reverse discrimination is loud and clear here!
And welcome to FlyerTalk!
Last edited by guv1976; Apr 15, 2022 at 2:05 pm