Involuntary downgrade

Old Jan 4, 22, 4:51 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Colin View Post
seems fine to me. you book a J cabin ticket, you miss a flight due to no fault of AA, and your remedy is the very next available J1 seat to your destination or reroute connection taking the last J1 seat or an alternative nearby destination taking the last J1 seat. if you select another option, next Y1 seat, then that’s a voluntary choice and no refund likely due unless you’re on an expenseive J fare (unlikely for FTers).

$200 vs. $600 so $400 refund is bad logic.
half the one-way was flown, so haircut it $100 vs. $300 so $200 diff.
but you still got lounge access, premium checkin, first class bag allowance.
so, haircut the $200 even more.

even still, AA should refund jack. no AA fault here and passenger voluntarily chose next Y1 not next J1.

i’d be on your side if AA tried to pull some crap to no rebook a Z ticket onto a J1Z0 flight, but that’s not the case here and AA has never once pulled that crap with me.

if the problem was AA fault, i’d like to see AA remedy by finding a volunteer downgrade or involuntary downgrade an upgraded passenger. AA won’t do this and I think AA is wrong.

AA J cabin fares are too cheap. often cant even buy a J ticket days in advance. AA should have goal for all flights being J2 an hour before departure.
OP said his inbound flight was late, causing him to misconnect (also, long lines at immigration, but AA definitely contributed by having a late inbound flight). Seems overly harsh to say that OP should have waited until who-knows-when for an available J seat and, if he instead wants to get home closer to "on time" (but still quite late), then he should eat it. As for your complaint about my logic: 1) Your ow/rt argument is irrelevant (I was assuming this was the price for the leg in questions, but if you want to cut the fare in half, go ahead---argument is exactly the same since the numbers were just for illustration); 2) Putting lots of value on first class checkin, lounge access, etc. is a slippery slope. Do elites, who already get these things for free pay less for F tickets? Do you save if you don't check a bag? Use OLCI? Skip the lounge (or already got lounge access some other way)? Of course not. For most people with status, the only significant difference in fares is where you sit on the plane.
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Old Jan 4, 22, 5:06 pm
  #32  
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Originally Posted by J S View Post
OP said his inbound flight was late, causing him to misconnect (also, long lines at immigration, but AA definitely contributed by having a late inbound flight). Seems overly harsh to say that OP should have waited until who-knows-when for an available J seat and, if he instead wants to get home closer to "on time" (but still quite late), then he should eat it. As for your complaint about my logic: 1) Your ow/rt argument is irrelevant (I was assuming this was the price for the leg in questions, but if you want to cut the fare in half, go ahead---argument is exactly the same since the numbers were just for illustration); 2) Putting lots of value on first class checkin, lounge access, etc. is a slippery slope. Do elites, who already get these things for free pay less for F tickets? Do you save if you don't check a bag? Use OLCI? Skip the lounge (or already got lounge access some other way)? Of course not. For most people with status, the only significant difference in fares is where you sit on the plane.
No evidence AA fault for inbound delay. Is your argument that if AA is at fault, then the misconnect should be resolved by downgrading (volunteer or forced) on the very next flight to accommodate? Yeah, no thanks if it’s me AA might be tempted to downgrade.

The passenger has all the power. Wait for the very next J1 (nonstop, connection, nearby airport) or voluntarily downgrade to a Y1 seat w/ an expectation of a de minimis refund when on a cheapy J-cabin fare.

My point it that FTers and others will game the hell out of AA if AA opens the coffers on misconnect voluntary downgrades. Asking for full sector value refund differential, asking for full miles, enjoying J fare benefits. It a tertiary point to respond to the emotional argument that you are due a material refund. Added data points that suggest a lower amount is just.
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Old Jan 4, 22, 8:33 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Colin View Post
No evidence AA fault for inbound delay. Is your argument that if AA is at fault, then the misconnect should be resolved by downgrading (volunteer or forced) on the very next flight to accommodate? Yeah, no thanks if it’s me AA might be tempted to downgrade.

The passenger has all the power. Wait for the very next J1 (nonstop, connection, nearby airport) or voluntarily downgrade to a Y1 seat w/ an expectation of a de minimis refund when on a cheapy J-cabin fare.

My point it that FTers and others will game the hell out of AA if AA opens the coffers on misconnect voluntary downgrades. Asking for full sector value refund differential, asking for full miles, enjoying J fare benefits. It a tertiary point to respond to the emotional argument that you are due a material refund. Added data points that suggest a lower amount is just.
OP paid for a J seat. He sat in a Coach seat. He didn't get what he paid for. It wasn't his fault. AA's flight was late.

Your argument: he could have waited and, eventually (in an hour, a day, a week, or a month) there would be a J seat available. Fine, then AA would not have to compensate him for the downgrade, but then they should compensate for the delay. (I never said anything about downgrading anyone else; go back and read my post. I only made a point about the refund that is due.)

Colin, your argument is anti-consumer even by airline standards. I doubt that even AA would subscribe to your logic. (They may lack the technical ability to go back and see what fares were available at the time of purchase, making the calculation I suggest infeasible, but I highly doubt they would agree with your screw-the-customer logic.)
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Old Jan 4, 22, 10:27 pm
  #34  
 
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I have two data points on a similar situation, albeit with an arrival delay, one on AA, one not.

AA: EXP, Paid J. BOS-LAX-SEA. LAX-SEA was canceled, rebooked in coach, refunded (a ridiculous) $68 fare difference for the segment, and bonused 12,500 miles.
UA: No status, booked J thru SQ. MSY-EWR-BOS. Missed connection and rebooked on next in coach. Refunded the difference in miles for the entire trip (10,000 SQ miles), and bonused 5,000 UA miles.
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Old Jan 4, 22, 10:31 pm
  #35  
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Originally Posted by J S View Post
OP paid for a J seat. He sat in a Coach seat. He didn't get what he paid for. It wasn't his fault. AA's flight was late.

Your argument: he could have waited and, eventually (in an hour, a day, a week, or a month) there would be a J seat available. Fine, then AA would not have to compensate him for the downgrade, but then they should compensate for the delay. (I never said anything about downgrading anyone else; go back and read my post. I only made a point about the refund that is due.)

Colin, your argument is anti-consumer even by airline standards. I doubt that even AA would subscribe to your logic. (They may lack the technical ability to go back and see what fares were available at the time of purchase, making the calculation I suggest infeasible, but I highly doubt they would agree with your screw-the-customer logic.)
he misconnected due to no fault of AA (based upon evidence presented/asserted) and he sat in a coach seat on his final segment because he preferred that to:
1. a later flight in J
2. a flight to a nearby airport like MKE/IND with J avail
3. literally dozens of connecting options in J between 2 major AA hubs

assuming a deep discount J-cabin fare, his refund should be jack in cash but the invaluable lesson of personal responsibility
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Old Jan 4, 22, 10:36 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by meechyathere View Post
I have two data points on a similar situation, albeit with an arrival delay, one on AA, one not.

AA: EXP, Paid J. BOS-LAX-SEA. LAX-SEA was canceled, rebooked in coach, refunded (a ridiculous) $68 fare difference for the segment, and bonused 12,500 miles.
UA: No status, booked J thru SQ. MSY-EWR-BOS. Missed connection and rebooked on next in coach. Refunded the difference in miles for the entire trip (10,000 SQ miles), and bonused 5,000 UA miles.
you mean paid J-cabin fare booked in deep discount “I” booking code, based upon that refund calculation. hilariously people paying $200 more blustering like they’re full fare J customers. come now.
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Old Jan 4, 22, 11:17 pm
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by Colin View Post
you mean paid J-cabin fare booked in deep discount “I” booking code, based upon that refund calculation. hilariously people paying $200 more blustering like they’re full fare J customers. come now.
I'd love to find a LAX-SEA where you could get J for $68 more!

If it was full J, they would probably base the refund off the difference between that and full Y, which might be even less!
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Old Jan 5, 22, 10:44 pm
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Colin View Post
he misconnected due to no fault of AA (based upon evidence presented/asserted) and he sat in a coach seat on his final segment because he preferred that to:
1. a later flight in J
2. a flight to a nearby airport like MKE/IND with J avail
3. literally dozens of connecting options in J between 2 major AA hubs

assuming a deep discount J-cabin fare, his refund should be jack in cash but the invaluable lesson of personal responsibility
We were late due to AA arriving 35 mins late on to stand. Definitely AA's fault in that regard. The immigration part wasn't their fault but would have been avoided had plane arrived on schedule. Other option was J the next day. We were both booked together and no flights that day (four more) had availability. Flew in coach and made it where we wanted 2 hours late. Again could have been avoided had AA not arrived late. In the end automatically got refunded 90 dollars each. Seems fair enough and better than a kick in the teeth and certainly decent based on the paltry amounts others received. Return trip yesterday was smooth through Dallas. In future will factor in at least 4 hours to connect when arriving to US as evidently even 3 is a push these days. Haven't made it through immigration in under 2 hours last 3 times. Global entry is a must but seems my Mexican residence on top of British passport seems to preclude me from getting it.
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Old Jan 5, 22, 10:55 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by TTmex View Post
We were late due to AA arriving 35 mins late on to stand. Definitely AA's fault in that regard. The immigration part wasn't their fault but would have been avoided had plane arrived on schedule. Other option was J the next day. We were both booked together and no flights that day (four more) had availability. Flew in coach and made it where we wanted 2 hours late. Again could have been avoided had AA not arrived late. In the end automatically got refunded 90 dollars each. Seems fair enough and better than a kick in the teeth and certainly decent based on the paltry amounts others received. Return trip yesterday was smooth through Dallas. In future will factor in at least 4 hours to connect when arriving to US as evidently even 3 is a push these days. Haven't made it through immigration in under 2 hours last 3 times. Global entry is a must but seems my Mexican residence on top of British passport seems to preclude me from getting it.
you mean 23 minutes late

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...251Z/MMMX/KMIA
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Old Jan 5, 22, 11:03 pm
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Colin View Post
It was 35 when we got off, but that's still a hefty delay on a 2.55 min connection when you've got to clear immigration. Regardless, got compensation so I'll go spend it on my personal responsibility lessons.
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Old Jan 6, 22, 1:41 am
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Originally Posted by TTmex View Post
It was 35 when we got off, but that's still a hefty delay on a 2.55 min connection when you've got to clear immigration. Regardless, got compensation so I'll go spend it on my personal responsibility lessons.
I've been a fly on the wall watching this discussion unfold. Disregard the chaff in the air in this thread, none of this was your fault despite a minority opinion wanting to paint it otherwise.

Sometimes us U.S. citizens forget how truly painful immigrations in the United States is for non-citizens.
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Old Jan 6, 22, 4:58 am
  #42  
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Originally Posted by TTmex View Post
It was 35 when we got off, but that's still a hefty delay on a 2.55 min connection when you've got to clear immigration. Regardless, got compensation so I'll go spend it on my personal responsibility lessons.
You misconnected due to immigrations, AA got home only 2 hours late in Y, AA refunded you $90. AA acted perfectly. You’re sated. The people who chimed in here that AA owes passengers in these circumstances more than that de minimis refund it provided are wrong for the stated reasons i clearly provided.
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Old Jan 6, 22, 5:52 am
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by Colin View Post
he misconnected due to no fault of AA (based upon evidence presented/asserted) and he sat in a coach seat on his final segment because he preferred that to:
1. a later flight in J
2. a flight to a nearby airport like MKE/IND with J avail
3. literally dozens of connecting options in J between 2 major AA hubs

assuming a deep discount J-cabin fare, his refund should be jack in cash but the invaluable lesson of personal responsibility
Not everyone who's flying to ORD has the same destination. ORD is the closest major airport to places like Cedar Rapids but driving from IND to Cedar Rapids is almost six hours.
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Old Feb 26, 22, 4:13 pm
  #44  
 
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No automatic refund and no other compensation for downgrade

I have status on AA but buy paid first class tickets. Recently, one flight (on a two-segment trip) was cancelled so I was rebooked on two new flights (with a different connecting airport). I was downgraded to coach on one of them.

No refund appeared after a few weeks, so I contacted AA customer service and asked for a refund and “other appropriate compensation”.

All I got was an email instructing me on how to request a refund online. Then I got a refund of about $75 after I requested the refund online.

This was poor by AA.

First, keep a FC seat available for last-minute changes like this.

Second, automatically refund the difference between first class and coach (the coach price that appeared on the website at the time the ticket was bought).

Third, offer some kind of compensation for the hassle and downgrade, even an apology and 1,000 miles or something.

This kind of poor service is a good reason NOT to pay for first class tickets.
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Old Feb 26, 22, 4:41 pm
  #45  
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Originally Posted by WeekendTraveler View Post
First, keep a FC seat available for last-minute changes like this.
Don't count on it. AA sells any remaining F seat they can muster on their app for anyone to buy.
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