More Lie-Flat TransCons, please. Interesting data on October Widebodies
Oct 11, 2021, 12:59 pm
#1
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More Lie-Flat TransCons, please. Interesting data on October Widebodies
Updated post due to user provided info below. I was trying to find a red eye to sleep on from LAX-GSP, and ended up going down a rabbit hole. I concocted an entire list of WIDEBODY routes with lie-flat seats in October on AA. I was then reminded of 4 other routes, both directions, between JFK and LAX, SFO, and SNA, as well as BOS-LAX - thanks to JJeffrey and S80 for their help.. These are a narrow body, business minded set of planes/routes. Basic version of my widebody report with approximate flight duration times inserted below. All routes work in both directions except for two in italics with asterisks. Obviously the 4 routes on the 321T's are all in the 4.5-5.5 hour range.
My original post was to lament how many lie-flats there are on "short routes" and to beg AA for more on say, LAX-CLT or DC.
Attached and below are those widebodies, HAWAII excluded, obviously I hope everyone gets a lie-flat when heading there and the routes are currently plentiful.
MIA CLT 2:00
ORD DFW 2:25
PHL ORD 2:30 ****
PHX DFW 2:35
MIA PHL 2:45
MIA JFK 2:55
MIA DFW 2:55
LAX DFW 3:05
MIA ORD 3:10
MIA BOS 3:10
DFW PHL 3:10 ****
ORD PHX 3:45
MIA PHX 4:25
MIA LAS 4:50
MIA LAX 5:10
LAX PHL 5:20
321T Narrowbodies - each 4.5-5.5 hours and thus deemed worthy of having lie flats in my opinion (opinion that nobody asked for)
JFK-LAX
JFK-SFO
JFK-SNA
BOS-LAX
My original post was to lament how many lie-flats there are on "short routes" and to beg AA for more on say, LAX-CLT or DC.
Attached and below are those widebodies, HAWAII excluded, obviously I hope everyone gets a lie-flat when heading there and the routes are currently plentiful.
MIA CLT 2:00
ORD DFW 2:25
PHL ORD 2:30 ****
PHX DFW 2:35
MIA PHL 2:45
MIA JFK 2:55
MIA DFW 2:55
LAX DFW 3:05
MIA ORD 3:10
MIA BOS 3:10
DFW PHL 3:10 ****
ORD PHX 3:45
MIA PHX 4:25
MIA LAS 4:50
MIA LAX 5:10
LAX PHL 5:20
321T Narrowbodies - each 4.5-5.5 hours and thus deemed worthy of having lie flats in my opinion (opinion that nobody asked for)
JFK-LAX
JFK-SFO
JFK-SNA
BOS-LAX
Last edited by Carolina2Cali; Oct 11, 2021 at 6:45 pm Reason: Users provided updated info.
Oct 11, 2021, 1:11 pm
#2
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Interesting data compiled, thanks for sharing.
Last edited by SKYEG; Oct 11, 2021 at 1:22 pm
Oct 11, 2021, 1:18 pm
#4
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Oct 11, 2021, 1:25 pm
#5
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Oh have I made a noob mistake? I knew there was no way NYC-LAX and probably SFO didn’t have options, but they didn’t appear on the cargo list. Is a 321T not considered a widebody and if not, what other routes might I be missing? I don’t want to start spreading fake news!
I guess I got to find a way to include the 321 data asap somehow.
Last edited by JY1024; Oct 11, 2021 at 1:53 pm Reason: Merged consecutive posts
Oct 11, 2021, 1:31 pm
#6
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Oh have I made a noob mistake? I knew there was no way NYC-LAX and probably SFO didn’t have options, but they didn’t appear on the cargo list. Is a 321T not considered a widebody and if not, what other routes might I be missing? I don’t want to start spreading fake news!
Oct 11, 2021, 1:39 pm
#7
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Oct 11, 2021, 4:20 pm
#8
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Because I didn't get any exciting news from Hyatt or AA today like I suspected (maybe next week, or an afternoon surprise)... I went trying to find a red eye where I can sleep flat between LAX-GSP, assuming I'd have to use Philadelphia or Miami as my connection as there isn't a CLT widebody from LAX right now... please bring that back ASAP in a schedule change AA. I seem to have struck out, the schedules mainly are during the bright of day, but alas, I pulled the CSV file from AA cargo and ran some data. Interesting stuff. I am guessing cargo is more profitable than passengers.
Reviewing the October domestic widebody routes, if you set Hawaii aside, there are only 4 city pairings where I find lie-flats that could be useful to those of us who can't sleep in a recliner, and who can't survive a small 2-3 hour nap for the entire next day. They are Miami to Phoenix, Vegas, or Los Angeles and back, as well as Los Angeles/Philly. Really, not even a NYC route, dang.
Consider this my petition to add more transcon widebody routes and stop with the silly 2 hour ones. I know it isn't as simple as I am pretending. In fact, there's two cities where the reverse flight doesn't even occur on a widebody. I can't figure out how to copy/paste my excel without it getting all ugly/wonky, so see attached. Again, no Hawaii or International, using AA's own Cargo data, and flight durations are approximate. EDIT: Basic version inserted below. All routes work in both directions except for two in italics with asterisks.
MIA CLT 2:00
ORD DFW 2:25
PHL ORD 2:30 ****
PHX DFW 2:35
MIA PHL 2:45
MIA JFK 2:55
MIA DFW 2:55
LAX DFW 3:05
MIA ORD 3:10
MIA BOS 3:10
DFW PHL 3:10 ****
ORD PHX 3:45
MIA PHX 4:25
MIA LAS 4:50
MIA LAX 5:10
LAX PHL 5:20
Reviewing the October domestic widebody routes, if you set Hawaii aside, there are only 4 city pairings where I find lie-flats that could be useful to those of us who can't sleep in a recliner, and who can't survive a small 2-3 hour nap for the entire next day. They are Miami to Phoenix, Vegas, or Los Angeles and back, as well as Los Angeles/Philly. Really, not even a NYC route, dang.
Consider this my petition to add more transcon widebody routes and stop with the silly 2 hour ones. I know it isn't as simple as I am pretending. In fact, there's two cities where the reverse flight doesn't even occur on a widebody. I can't figure out how to copy/paste my excel without it getting all ugly/wonky, so see attached. Again, no Hawaii or International, using AA's own Cargo data, and flight durations are approximate. EDIT: Basic version inserted below. All routes work in both directions except for two in italics with asterisks.
MIA CLT 2:00
ORD DFW 2:25
PHL ORD 2:30 ****
PHX DFW 2:35
MIA PHL 2:45
MIA JFK 2:55
MIA DFW 2:55
LAX DFW 3:05
MIA ORD 3:10
MIA BOS 3:10
DFW PHL 3:10 ****
ORD PHX 3:45
MIA PHX 4:25
MIA LAS 4:50
MIA LAX 5:10
LAX PHL 5:20
For aircraft utilization, the aircraft is sitting around for a few hours during the day between long-haul international, so they send it to another hub (where they have the demand) and send it right back. E.G. Aircraft arrives in DFW from Asia around 5am, so they send it to LAX at 9am, and it returns around 5pm for a 7pm departure to London (this is the most common situation given the popularity of overnight international flights given timezone changes).
For maintenance check repositioning flights, AA (afaik) doesn't have a place in CLT for maintenance on the 777s they use for the London route, so they have the MIA-CLT-MIA route to bring a new aircraft in, and take one back to MIA for a maintenance check. This doesn't always happen though for some routes, as they could just do MIA-LHR-CLT-LHR-MIA as well to make sure the aircraft hits a hub for a maintenance check but there are other complications there for the outstation given a delay or cancellation.
There is of course still filling the aircraft with people and making more of a profit vs two narrow-bodies, which AA is also doing where there is demand, but hopefully this gives more context as to why the 2 hour hub-hub hops are common.
Oct 11, 2021, 4:25 pm
#9
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Oct 11, 2021, 4:39 pm
#10
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The short 2 hour hub to hub flights are for either aircraft utilization or maintenance purposes.
For aircraft utilization, the aircraft is sitting around for a few hours during the day between long-haul international, so they send it to another hub (where they have the demand) and send it right back. E.G. Aircraft arrives in DFW from Asia around 5am, so they send it to LAX at 9am, and it returns around 5pm for a 7pm departure to London (this is the most common situation given the popularity of overnight international flights given timezone changes).
For aircraft utilization, the aircraft is sitting around for a few hours during the day between long-haul international, so they send it to another hub (where they have the demand) and send it right back. E.G. Aircraft arrives in DFW from Asia around 5am, so they send it to LAX at 9am, and it returns around 5pm for a 7pm departure to London (this is the most common situation given the popularity of overnight international flights given timezone changes).
Where/how/huh? LOL.
Oct 11, 2021, 4:44 pm
#11
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The Expidite and Confirmed FS csvs can be opened in excel and filtered by the subfleet type column.
Last edited by S80; Oct 11, 2021 at 4:45 pm Reason: fixed image
Oct 11, 2021, 6:37 pm
#12
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JFK-LAX/SFO are about the only routes to earn a significant premium for a lie flat product. So there's a lot of "nobodies" asking for it, actually...
Don't forget this quote from Vasu from 2019:
“The amount of business-class demand between New York and Los Angeles is not two or three times as big as the next route, it’s 14 or 15 times as big,”
Oct 11, 2021, 6:44 pm
#13
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Sorry, I meant nobody asking for my opinion lol. Obviously corner to corner country routes should have lie-flats. Seattle seems to be the only corner AA hasn't conquered, but I guess that's the new plan even with an AS partnership so...
Oct 11, 2021, 10:44 pm
#14
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I know there are some PHL-LAS routes with lieflats. Perhaps not in October, but I booked some flights in November and December and on at least some dates AA661 PHL-LAS departs at 8:15 arriving around 10:20, and AA1585 LAS-PHL departs LAS at 11:40PM arriving PHL 7:02AM, both B788. I can't swear it's the same aircraft but it seems logical. They've done this fairly often in the past couple of years.
AA726 has been operating PHL-LAX daily for years, leaving PHL around 4PM, usually with a widebody. Pre-COVID it was an A332. Not sure what it is now, but pretty sure it's a widebody - I have no idea if it was a widebody or not during the heydays of COVID.
AA726 has been operating PHL-LAX daily for years, leaving PHL around 4PM, usually with a widebody. Pre-COVID it was an A332. Not sure what it is now, but pretty sure it's a widebody - I have no idea if it was a widebody or not during the heydays of COVID.
Oct 12, 2021, 5:22 am
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I know there are some PHL-LAS routes with lieflats. Perhaps not in October, but I booked some flights in November and December and on at least some dates AA661 PHL-LAS departs at 8:15 arriving around 10:20, and AA1585 LAS-PHL departs LAS at 11:40PM arriving PHL 7:02AM, both B788. I can't swear it's the same aircraft but it seems logical. They've done this fairly often in the past couple of years.
AA726 has been operating PHL-LAX daily for years, leaving PHL around 4PM, usually with a widebody. Pre-COVID it was an A332. Not sure what it is now, but pretty sure it's a widebody - I have no idea if it was a widebody or not during the heydays of COVID.
AA726 has been operating PHL-LAX daily for years, leaving PHL around 4PM, usually with a widebody. Pre-COVID it was an A332. Not sure what it is now, but pretty sure it's a widebody - I have no idea if it was a widebody or not during the heydays of COVID.