DOJ to Challenge AA-B6 Alliance

Old Sep 22, 21, 9:49 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by IADCAflyer View Post
AA cut SEA-JFK along with a number of other cities (including JFK-SAN) which is mentioned in the pleading well before the announcement was made. I believe it was Q2 or Q3 2019 when JFK was redoing one of its runways. Lets also note that three other airlines fly this route non-stop and UA, AS, and B6 fly SAN-EWR non-stop.
My point is, with B6 agreement in its place, there is no or little incentives to bringing some of these AA flights back. A lost AA flight surely support justice department of reduced competition, no?

The rebuttal that 57 or so new market gain is irrelevant. The point is that AA and possibly B6 has no intention to compete in some of the flights that were discontinued with flights of their own metal, and that's reduced competition.
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Old Sep 22, 21, 9:52 am
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Originally Posted by IADCAflyer View Post
AA cut SEA-JFK along with a number of other cities (including JFK-SAN) which is mentioned in the pleading well before the announcement was made. I believe it was Q2 or Q3 2019 when JFK was redoing one of its runways. Lets also note that three other airlines fly this route non-stop and UA, AS, and B6 fly SAN-EWR non-stop.
I don't know squat about anti-trust law, but my gut this will get settled with Spirit getting some extra slots @ lga. The real winners if DOJ wins will be United and Delta so not sure how they can argue this alliance is anti-competitive. AA will be forced to scale back at JFK. And I don't know anyone who wants more sprit flights.
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Old Sep 22, 21, 10:11 am
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Originally Posted by AsiaTravel2019 View Post
I called it.

AA should have had B6 join OW instead of trying to do codeshares with B6. too much overlap
From my point of view, this is like closing the barn door after the horse has walked out -- the time to object was when Parker at US Airways wanted to buy AA. If that had been stopped, we wouldn't be where we are...

--woodstock
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Old Sep 22, 21, 10:18 am
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Originally Posted by jiburi View Post
My point is, with B6 agreement in its place, there is no or little incentives to bringing some of these AA flights back. A lost AA flight surely support justice department of reduced competition, no?

The rebuttal that 57 or so new market gain is irrelevant. The point is that AA and possibly B6 has no intention to compete in some of the flights that were discontinued with flights of their own metal, and that's reduced competition.
Jiburi
Correlation is not causation. JFK-SEA was cut long before this tie up; it was unlikely to return regardless.
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Old Sep 22, 21, 10:20 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by jiburi View Post
My point is, with B6 agreement in its place, there is no or little incentives to bringing some of these AA flights back. A lost AA flight surely support justice department of reduced competition, no?

The rebuttal that 57 or so new market gain is irrelevant. The point is that AA and possibly B6 has no intention to compete in some of the flights that were discontinued with flights of their own metal, and that's reduced competition.
Jiburi
The point is that is is not reduced competition if AA had stopped operating these routes years before the AA/B6 alliance. What matter is what was operated at the time of the of the application to the DOT.
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Old Sep 22, 21, 6:46 pm
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Because of this alliance, AA/B6 are essentially one airline.
And because of all the other mergers years ago, there aren't a lot of airlines remaining.
So allowing AA/B6 to operate as one reduces what little competition remains.
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Old Sep 22, 21, 8:35 pm
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Originally Posted by JoeWoodstock View Post
From my point of view, this is like closing the barn door after the horse has walked out -- the time to object was when Parker at US Airways wanted to buy AA. If that had been stopped, we wouldn't be where we are...

--woodstock
I'd go back further than that. The time to object was when Northwest merged with Delta out of bankruptcy. If NWA couldn't work it out with its creditors, they should have gone out of business and their assets sold off to whoever wanted to buy them.
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Old Sep 22, 21, 8:55 pm
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Hopefully they can countersue the DOJ.

Last edited by FlyDeltaMD88; Sep 22, 21 at 9:51 pm
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Old Sep 22, 21, 9:51 pm
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Originally Posted by SUPERTRAVEL View Post
Because of this alliance, AA/B6 are essentially one airline.
And because of all the other mergers years ago, there aren't a lot of airlines remaining.
So allowing AA/B6 to operate as one reduces what little competition remains.
Except not at all. How are they "one airline"
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Old Sep 23, 21, 6:10 am
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So is the JV between JetBlue and American different from previous domestic codeshare agreements? Why is it different now? Alaska and Delta codeshared for years along with AA too, until Delta moved into SEA. These are old but Northwest and Continental? United and USAir back in the day? Obviously there were more airlines back then but there weren't a lot of additional airlines that dominated the transcontinental markets than there are now.
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Old Sep 23, 21, 7:49 am
  #41  
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It's not an anti-trust immunized JV in the sense of the oneworld Atlantic Joint Business which allows for revenue sharing -- whether you fly JFK-LHR on AA or BA, both airlines will get a similar portion of the revenue. In the NEA, if both AA and B6 are flying JFK-LAX, if you fly on AA metal then AA will get 100% of your money and if you fly on B6 metal, then B6 will get 100% of your money (nit pick: if you fly on a codeshare, the marketing airline gets a commission). If you fly on DL, then DL will get 100% of your money. For the most part, the airlines compete.

The difference here from previous domestic codeshare agreements is that AA and B6 are allowed to coordinate schedules. How anti-competitive that is is debatable.
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Old Sep 23, 21, 1:31 pm
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Originally Posted by saxman66 View Post
So is the JV between JetBlue and American different from previous domestic codeshare agreements? Why is it different now? Alaska and Delta codeshared for years along with AA too, until Delta moved into SEA. These are old but Northwest and Continental? United and USAir back in the day? Obviously there were more airlines back then but there weren't a lot of additional airlines that dominated the transcontinental markets than there are now.
Yes, the NEA is very different than existing and prior codeshares. For one, codeshares do not include coordination on schedules (which allows both parties to plan a reduction in redundant service). More significantly, codeshares do not involve revenue sharing.
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Old Sep 23, 21, 2:04 pm
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Originally Posted by fly18725 View Post
Yes, the NEA is very different than existing and prior codeshares. For one, codeshares do not include coordination on schedules (which allows both parties to plan a reduction in redundant service). More significantly, codeshares do not involve revenue sharing.
Yes with regards to the schedules. However, this does not have revenue sharing either
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Old Sep 23, 21, 2:34 pm
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Originally Posted by Antarius View Post
Yes with regards to the schedules. However, this does not have revenue sharing either
Yes it does. I don’t know the details, but the existence of revenue sharing is clearly noted in the first paragraph of the agreement with the DOT.

https://www.transportation.gov/sites...%20website.pdf
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Old Sep 23, 21, 4:50 pm
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Originally Posted by fly18725 View Post
Yes it does. I don’t know the details, but the existence of revenue sharing is clearly noted in the first paragraph of the agreement with the DOT.

https://www.transportation.gov/sites...%20website.pdf
Read section III B #1
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