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Flagship Lounges and Flagship First Dining to start reopening September 2021

Flagship Lounges and Flagship First Dining to start reopening September 2021

Old Apr 8, 22, 10:18 am
  #1426  
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AA.com says:

If you’re flying on American Airlines in Flagship® First on qualifying international or transcontinental flights, you automatically have access.**Departing flight must be marketed and operated by American on the same day (or before 6 a.m. the following day). Customers traveling on airline industry non-revenue tickets are not eligible for access.
They're already not consistent with this policy (because LAX-JFK can get access on arrival), but it doesn't say BA F gets access.
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Old Apr 8, 22, 10:25 am
  #1427  
 
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The fact that AA buried this new rule in the terms and conditions and didn't just add it to the main page for Flagship Dining access leads me to believe it's just another case of AA marketing one hand not talking to the other.

The snippet certainly reads like it, but who knows if the real intention was to allow all oneworld F access to FD or if they were just trying to clarify you must be in AA F or oneworld F for access (but not all oneworld F) and the junior marketing person or web analyst added the language without any back-checking.

Typical.
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Old Apr 8, 22, 10:53 am
  #1428  
 
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Originally Posted by ryanbriar View Post
I’ll see what the situation is first-hand in early May when going from domestic AA to BA F at JFK. (Ideally all resolved by then!)

Hopefully someone will DM, call or submit an online request to point out what is happening in practice so that AA can send an internal communication around.
Maybe, but I don't think this is a case of agents not knowing the access rules. I think this is a case of us, as passengers, interpreting the language to mean any OW F gets access, when the language states the OW F must be on qualifying flights, which I take to actually mean flights on OW partners where access is negotiated and allowed. For instance, CX F at JFK: Qualifying. BA F at JFK: not Qualifying. BA F at MIA: Qualifying. BA F at LAX: not Qualifying.
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Old Apr 8, 22, 10:57 am
  #1429  
 
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Originally Posted by DMPHL View Post
Maybe, but I don't think this is a case of agents not knowing the access rules. I think this is a case of us, as passengers, interpreting the language to mean any OW F gets access, when the language states the OW F must be on qualifying flights, which I take to actually mean flights on OW partners where access is negotiated and allowed. For instance, CX F at JFK: Qualifying. BA F at JFK: not Qualifying. BA F at MIA: Qualifying. BA F at LAX: not Qualifying.
While I'm not a lawyer and not into reading T&Cs, if I recall, in the past there had been similar language for "qualified int'l routes," which, as you observed, allowed CX F from JFK, but not JL F, even if to the same destination. Perhaps, this language is to carve out the reciprocity with BA and not meant as in every OW F, which I'm sure AA would be perfectly fine with if the carriers agreed to pay for access.
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Old Apr 8, 22, 11:56 am
  #1430  
 
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Originally Posted by Visconti View Post
While I'm not a lawyer and not into reading T&Cs, if I recall, in the past there had been similar language for "qualified int'l routes," which, as you observed, allowed CX F from JFK, but not JL F, even if to the same destination. Perhaps, this language is to carve out the reciprocity with BA and not meant as in every OW F, which I'm sure AA would be perfectly fine with if the carriers agreed to pay for access.
Time to get some defined terms in the T&Cs.

The ambiguity is what’s annoying. The way I view it, whether you’ve spent thousands of dollars, used an SWU, used a chunk of miles or
got an op-up, you shouldn’t have to be arguing with someone about entering the lounge if you are allowed to be there. It is part of what you are paying for. This isn’t someone trying to access the AC with a priority pass where it is clearly not allowed.

If the definition is AA-operated “Qualifying” flights with the exception of XYZ routes (with Qualifying cleverly defined), then great those are the rules like them or not. If it’s OW F routes without caveats, then those are the rules and everyone should abide by them.

I’d say 95%+ of eligible customers have very little insight (or care that much) about all of the nuances or aren’t willing to push back.
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Old Apr 8, 22, 2:49 pm
  #1431  
 
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While I understand everyone who is saying this new rule really isnt a new rule and AA's intent is just to use the special carved out relationships, when i read this its pretty straightforward and now all OW F gets in. By qualifying they mean a true First not Business and Europe, Asia, AU (not Mexico). If they wanted this to be about the special carved out relationships they certainly could have noted that there.

I really hope this is just an issue now of agents not being informed yet . I reached out to AC customer service maybe they will offer some insight.

But when I read this below I think they did change the rules. As stated above FFD is always so empty so getting some additional folks in there and maybe getting some money from BA, JL, QF, etc wouldnt hurt.
  • A customer with a same-day ticket on American or a oneworld® airline in the first class cabin on a qualifying international or transcontinental flight automatically has access to Flagship® First Dining, located within certain select Flagship® Lounges.
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Old Apr 8, 22, 4:11 pm
  #1432  
 
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Originally Posted by happiest_at_40000 View Post
While I understand everyone who is saying this new rule really isnt a new rule and AA's intent is just to use the special carved out relationships, when i read this its pretty straightforward and now all OW F gets in. By qualifying they mean a true First not Business and Europe, Asia, AU (not Mexico). If they wanted this to be about the special carved out relationships they certainly could have noted that there.

I really hope this is just an issue now of agents not being informed yet . I reached out to AC customer service maybe they will offer some insight.

But when I read this below I think they did change the rules. As stated above FFD is always so empty so getting some additional folks in there and maybe getting some money from BA, JL, QF, etc wouldnt hurt.
  • A customer with a same-day ticket on American or a oneworld® airline in the first class cabin on a qualifying international or transcontinental flight automatically has access to Flagship® First Dining, located within certain select Flagship® Lounges.
The thing is it is not straightforward at all. There are four conditions that need to be met:
(1) Same-day ticket
(2) on American or a oneworld airline.
(3) in the first class cabin
(4) on a qualifying international or transcontinental flight.

That last one is the one that is, of course, where the drama is. In reading that fourth one, you say "they mean" one thing that, in my opinion, you want them to mean, but they don't mean. That's the problem with the language. It's vague. But, based on what has actually transpired in the past w/r/t access, I would go with the more restrictive reading, and see it as an update meant to put into T&C's what has actually been happening, rather than broadening access.

Also, I think when it comes to FFD, AA is interested in its relative emptiness only insofar as it indicates (if it does at all) that it is not selling the Flagship First cabins, or selling enough Flagship Business tickets that are then upgraded. It's not meant to be a nice thing that they want lots of people to experience. It's meant to be packaged as part of a product that makes them money. They likely have no interest in broadening access simply to fill up FFD rooms where more people will drink expensive alcohol and eat (relatively, for AA) expensive food, which will cost them a lot of money if access is granted based on OneWorld class-of-service rules.

I still think that this all amounts to nothing, and AA is adding language to reflect that there may be "qualifying" flights other than those on AA metal. What counts as "qualifying" for non-AA metal flights will, in my opinion, continue to be certain OW partner flights at specific stations where the partner pays AA money to cover the cost of the FFD experience.
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Old Apr 8, 22, 4:14 pm
  #1433  
 
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Originally Posted by DMPHL View Post
The thing is it is not straightforward at all. There are four conditions that need to be met:
(1) Same-day ticket
(2) on American or a oneworld airline.
(3) in the first class cabin
(4) on a qualifying international or transcontinental flight.

That last one is the one that is, of course, where the drama is. In reading that fourth one, you say "they mean" one thing that, in my opinion, you want them to mean, but they don't mean. That's the problem with the language. It's vague. But, based on what has actually transpired in the past w/r/t access, I would go with the more restrictive reading, and see it as an update meant to put into T&C's what has actually been happening, rather than broadening access.

Also, I think when it comes to FFD, AA is interested in its relative emptiness only insofar as it indicates (if it does at all) that it is not selling the Flagship First cabins, or selling enough Flagship Business tickets that are then upgraded. It's not meant to be a nice thing that they want lots of people to experience. It's meant to be packaged as part of a product that makes them money. They likely have no interest in broadening access simply to fill up FFD rooms where more people will drink expensive alcohol and eat (relatively, for AA) expensive food, which will cost them a lot of money if access is granted based on OneWorld class-of-service rules.

I still think that this all amounts to nothing, and AA is adding language to reflect that there may be "qualifying" flights other than those on AA metal. What counts as "qualifying" for non-AA metal flights will, in my opinion, continue to be certain OW partner flights at specific stations where the partner pays AA money to cover the cost of the FFD experience.
I think you're either a lawyer or English Lit major?? Such a well written post right there.........I hope you're wrong but you're starting to persuade me that I read it wrong and its just the same rules as it was.
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Old Apr 8, 22, 4:51 pm
  #1434  
 
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Guess we will wait for someone to scan their first class JAL ticket and see what happens
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Old Apr 8, 22, 9:31 pm
  #1435  
 
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Originally Posted by Cthunder86 View Post
Guess we will wait for someone to scan their first class JAL ticket and see what happens
Ya, anyone flying JL F JFK to HND soon??

With LA closed it really takes so many of these scenarios out of play. I do believe just JL F from JFK is only scenario with out a covered special carve out. However, special carve outs are for departing only and at that airport only. If the rule really is a new rule and a true chance to FFD being accessible for any OW F qualifying international then one would think they would get FFD anywhere connecting also and I dont see that happening even if its a true rule change.
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Old Apr 9, 22, 12:29 am
  #1436  
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Originally Posted by happiest_at_40000 View Post
Ya, anyone flying JL F JFK to HND soon??
Yes, but according to the oneworld website, JL uses the LH lounge in T1.
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Old Apr 9, 22, 1:04 am
  #1437  
 
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Originally Posted by danger View Post
Yes, but according to the oneworld website, JL uses the LH lounge in T1.
Yes that sounds right. You're not coming in on AA domestic by any chance? If you are give it a quick shot and let us know.
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Old Apr 9, 22, 1:17 am
  #1438  
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Not same day, no.
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Old Apr 9, 22, 3:35 am
  #1439  
 
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Originally Posted by DMPHL View Post
(4) on a qualifying international or transcontinental flight.

That last one is the one that is, of course, where the drama is. In reading that fourth one, you say "they mean" one thing that, in my opinion, you want them to mean, but they don't mean. That's the problem with the language. It's vague. But, based on what has actually transpired in the past w/r/t access, I would go with the more restrictive reading, and see it as an update meant to put into T&C's what has actually been happening, rather than broadening access.
Ah, just from a common sense perspective--at least mine--it can't mean *any* OW Int'l F, because that would mean OW F flights to (assuming there are to, say, Canada or Mexico, both of which had always been exclusions) outside the US would qualify? It can't be that broad. So, access would be somewhere in between any OW F Int'l to only those that were on the list prior to the BA reciprocity agreement?

I recall in the past, the JFK FD would simply just tell a JL F HKG pax that only CX F on that route were allowed access. I'd imagine the same would be true today and eventually we'll have a list.
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Old Apr 9, 22, 10:01 am
  #1440  
 
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