Aug 22, 2020, 1:08 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
American Airlines prohibits the practice known as “hidden city ticketing” (sometimes referred to as “skiplagging”, “throwaway ticketing” or “point beyond ticketing” as well).
When you purchase an American Airlines ticket you are agreeing to abide by their rules, terms and conditions. Some refer to this as a “contract of adhesion”. Your purchase is considered agreement to comply.Applicable American Airlines Conditions of Carriage (in part) — link
Prohibited booking practices
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
Applicable AAdvantage Terms and Conditions, in part — link
Fraud, misrepresentation, abuse or violation of applicable rules (including, but not limited to, American or American Eagle® conditions of carriage, tariffs and AAdvantage® program rules) is subject to administrative and/or legal action by appropriate governmental authorities and American Airlines. Such action may include, without limitation, the forfeiture of all award tickets and any accrued mileage in a member's account, as well as termination of the account and the member's future participation in the AAdvantage® program. If your account is terminated due to inappropriate conduct or while under investigation, you may not open a new AAdvantage® account or participate in the AAdvantage® Program in any capacity without obtaining the express written permission of American Airlines. In addition, American Airlines reserves the right to take appropriate legal action to recover damages, including its attorneys’ fees incurred in prosecuting any lawsuit.
When you purchase an American Airlines ticket you are agreeing to abide by their rules, terms and conditions. Some refer to this as a “contract of adhesion”. Your purchase is considered agreement to comply.Applicable American Airlines Conditions of Carriage (in part) — link
Prohibited booking practices
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Purchasing a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden city ticketing)
- Buying a ticket without intending to travel, including to gain access to our airport lounges or other facilities
- Combining 2 or more roundtrip excursion fares end-to-end to circumvent minimum stay requirements (back-to-back ticketing)
- Booking a ticket in someone's name without the person's consent (which is illegal)
- Holding reservations for reasons like securing upgrades, blocking seats or obtaining lower fares
- Booking duplicate or impossible trips, for example multiple trips for the same passenger around the same time (trips a passenger physically could not complete)
- Cancel any unused part of the ticket
- Refuse to let the passenger fly and check bags
- Not refund an otherwise refundable ticket
- Charge you for what the ticket would have cost if you hadn't booked it fraudulently
- Require you refund to us any compensation we provided like bag delivery costs, and reimbursement for clothes or toiletries because of late or lost bags
Applicable AAdvantage Terms and Conditions, in part — link
Fraud, misrepresentation, abuse or violation of applicable rules (including, but not limited to, American or American Eagle® conditions of carriage, tariffs and AAdvantage® program rules) is subject to administrative and/or legal action by appropriate governmental authorities and American Airlines. Such action may include, without limitation, the forfeiture of all award tickets and any accrued mileage in a member's account, as well as termination of the account and the member's future participation in the AAdvantage® program. If your account is terminated due to inappropriate conduct or while under investigation, you may not open a new AAdvantage® account or participate in the AAdvantage® Program in any capacity without obtaining the express written permission of American Airlines. In addition, American Airlines reserves the right to take appropriate legal action to recover damages, including its attorneys’ fees incurred in prosecuting any lawsuit.
Hidden city ticketing is a way to find cheaper nonstop tickets by booking a connecting flight to a final destination beyond yours, but ending your journey at a layover point. You might find that a flight from New York to Nashville with a layover in Atlanta is cheaper than a nonstop ticket from New York to Atlanta, so you book the itinerary with the connection. But, when the plane stops in Atlanta, you end your journey there and are a no-show for the onward flight to Nashville. — scottscheapflights.com
Hidden City Audit - AA Demanding Payment or Account Termination
Aug 22, 2020, 8:02 am
#256
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I don't read the OP that way. They list the tickets which they consider abusive. The don't provide a break down of the fees ticket-by-ticket. I don't consider that a fair and transparent business practice.
As for the other poster who claims the $2.5 is a penalty: What price list does that come from? How is it fair and transparent pricing?
As for the other poster who claims the $2.5 is a penalty: What price list does that come from? How is it fair and transparent pricing?
The "price list" is irrelevant (if there is one). AA's agreed remedies (from the COC, which the OP and everyone who buys a ticket from AA agrees to) allow it to seek the full demonstrated fare difference. That they offered a lesser amount as a "penalty" or "fine" was at their discretion. If you don't like it, that's okay; just understand if you buy a ticket from AA (or any airline) it is a contract, subject to the COC, which you should read since you are agreeing to it. Choose another carrier if you don't like the COC (and good luck finding any "common carrier" that doesn't have a COC that prevents you from defrauding them, btw).
From AA's side of the COC, it's not a "fair and transparent business practice" for a traveler to deliberately use HCT / "skip-lagging". As noted elsewhere in this thread, life happens; this sort of thing can be dismissed on a very occasional basis since it is pretty easy to have a legitimate reason for missing a follow-on segment. This is a pretty blatant case, as the OP admitted pretty early on.
cheers!
Aug 22, 2020, 8:03 am
#257
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Whatever the legal justifications, the fact a supplier can charge more for less - and force the customers to cough up - is an abuse of market power.
Trying to justify/apologise is as palatable as defending patent trolls.
Trying to justify/apologise is as palatable as defending patent trolls.
Aug 22, 2020, 8:12 am
#258
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... If we bring back the CAB then a lot of these issues will go away. No more non-refundable tickets. No more hidden city arguments. No more bizarre prices where a 1000 mile trip costs half as much as a 500 mile trip. But no more $79 fares either. Flying would be much more expensive. There would be even more airplanes parked than there are in this pandemic, and it wouldn't be temporary, it would be forever.
Aug 22, 2020, 8:12 am
#259
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Not exactly the same conditions, but by that logic AA should charge me more to fly JFK-CLT-SFO than to fly the non-stop JFK-SFO.
Aug 22, 2020, 8:14 am
#260
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EAS is partially taxpayer sponsored. What exactly is your position? The person who flies the 1,000 extra miles should be paying or should taxpayers (by extension other passengers not flying that route) subside that 1,000 extra miles? Because that is exactly what is happening today; the less profitable/at a loss route is being made by possible by passengers not flying that route. That's only possible because fare is not tied to actual cost.
EAS would need to be used only on those routes to airports which are far from any other option and would be unlikely to support daily flights.
Aug 22, 2020, 8:26 am
#261
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I can’t believe how many AA apologists there are on here. Yes, you have certain rights within the CoC, but the terms are certainly slanted in AA’s favor. I don’t see how that is a revelation to anyone or controversial.
In fact, how about this. The airlines can write the CoC however they want, but if the .... hits the fan, they are on their own. In fact, I would like my money back for what we gave them over the last several months.
In fact, how about this. The airlines can write the CoC however they want, but if the .... hits the fan, they are on their own. In fact, I would like my money back for what we gave them over the last several months.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it strikes me that rules like the one discussed here exist because the practices they prohibit were found to be harmful to the airlines' bottom line--profit-making businesses don't continually "turn the other cheek" and survive.
I've gotten quite a lot of my money back and am satisfied with the travel credits for what wasn't refundable. I am not an "AA apologist", but I'm also not given to infantile whining about how unfair life and unexpected circumstances can be. All things considered, the airlines and the rest of the travel industry have been a LOT more accommodating than they've had to be... (my opinion, YMMV, void where prohibited by law, etc., etc.)
cheers and happy travels!
Last edited by AAir_head; Aug 22, 2020 at 1:07 pm
Aug 22, 2020, 8:32 am
#262
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Oh please--you're being obtuse. As demonstrated by:
... and several others' previous posts in the same vein--which can reasonably be paraphrased as "AA Corporate Security exists to troll for dollars". 
cheers!
As demonstrated by: What *has* been suggested is that AA is having cashflow problems and during such times departments *are* asked to come up with ways to generate more revenue. It's a standard business practice. You review things and think about how you might generate some new income.
It is not at all beyond the realms of belief to think that it occurred to someone in Corp Security to look at who had abused the HC practice and hit them up for a "donation" to AA. The fact that, if we take OP's account at face value, they clearly didn't cost the 52 actual flights (which would be a genuine nightmare to do as they'd have to cost it for the *exact* date and time he booked *each* flight (remember, fares vary by the minute...)) indicates that what they *did* do is come up with a list of HC abusers (list of 1+ at least) and email them for a tidy, but likely well-calculated amount AA thought they would cough up.
AA programme has several million members, yes? If just 250 people of those several million abuse the system like this and they each cough up $2500 to save their miles then that's $625,000 AA takes in. For about 15 hours work for 2-3 people. If I were AA I would green light this cash chase in an instant. If even *1* person pays then you've covered someone's salary at AA for a week.
It is not at all beyond the realms of belief to think that it occurred to someone in Corp Security to look at who had abused the HC practice and hit them up for a "donation" to AA. The fact that, if we take OP's account at face value, they clearly didn't cost the 52 actual flights (which would be a genuine nightmare to do as they'd have to cost it for the *exact* date and time he booked *each* flight (remember, fares vary by the minute...)) indicates that what they *did* do is come up with a list of HC abusers (list of 1+ at least) and email them for a tidy, but likely well-calculated amount AA thought they would cough up.
AA programme has several million members, yes? If just 250 people of those several million abuse the system like this and they each cough up $2500 to save their miles then that's $625,000 AA takes in. For about 15 hours work for 2-3 people. If I were AA I would green light this cash chase in an instant. If even *1* person pays then you've covered someone's salary at AA for a week.
cheers!
Last edited by AAir_head; Aug 22, 2020 at 1:08 pm
Aug 22, 2020, 8:47 am
#263
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I do enjoy reading the attacks on AA Corporate security as being trolls or "little". I can guarantee you that most of those posting these witticisms are likely not business owners. If someone was fleecing you of money I can guarantee you that you'd be snuffing out abusive activity. Hell, people here ..... because they got 500 miles instead of the 1000 miles they were "promised".
Aug 22, 2020, 8:52 am
#264
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Can anyone find an instance of an airline taking someone to court (preferably in the US) and getting money awarded to them for hidden city ticketing? I don’t deny that can do what they are doing to the OP with his miles. I presume an airline could also ban someone from flying with them going forward, but I am skeptical that the airline would be able to recover money from someone who refuses to pay.
Aug 22, 2020, 9:01 am
#265
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Aug 22, 2020, 9:10 am
#266
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cheers!
Aug 22, 2020, 9:29 am
#267
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Certain routes have more demand than others despite the miles involved. (Pre COVID) more people wanted to fly from New York City to London or Los Angeles versus from Lubbock Texas. The free market in part keeps the price down because carriers will naturally migrate towards where the demand is (versus having it apportioned based upon some government fiat). We could go back to the days of the CAB. Yes air travel would return to it's previous glory but business demand would drop with new technology and like the 1960s only the 1% would fly on any regular basis.
Yes I wouldn't mind if flying return to 1960s style (sans smoking) even if I could only afford to fly once a month. Realistically I don't see that happening and I don't see Y ever returning to what it was 50-60 years ago.
Yes I wouldn't mind if flying return to 1960s style (sans smoking) even if I could only afford to fly once a month. Realistically I don't see that happening and I don't see Y ever returning to what it was 50-60 years ago.
Aug 22, 2020, 9:37 am
#268
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Aug 22, 2020, 9:41 am
#269
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You are approaching this on a entirely different perspective than the airline. You think less flight should equate to lower fare (JFK-DFW) while airlines are pricing by routes (JFK-DFW-SFO).
As mentioned earlier, doing what you are proposing would result in reduction/elimination of air service for smaller communities if fare has to tie to cost.
Aug 22, 2020, 10:09 am
#270
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It depends on the situation. What is happening today is a system basically set up to gauge hub captives. It's idiotic for an individual flying ATL-SFO to be charged more than me flying MCO-ATL-SFO. Even more idiotic is a person flying DFW-SFO paying $100 more than me flying MCO-DFW-SFO. None of these routes would be dropped in a scenario where flights are charged based on number/distance of legs.
EAS would need to be used only on those routes to airports which are far from any other option and would be unlikely to support daily flights.
EAS would need to be used only on those routes to airports which are far from any other option and would be unlikely to support daily flights.
Are you proposing fixed pricing? We discussed smaller community and EAS. Your examples concern larger communities. So let’s say you go fixed pricing and SFO-DFW and DFW-MCO can support themselves. Since it is fixed pricing airlines has no incentive to built out connections between MCO-SFO via DFW and just be focused serving the market for those individuals legs. So yes a passenger living at a hub will get lower prices while those connecting will get the higher price (unless there is a nonstop) and an longer connection time. As someone mentioned previously, passengers flying MCO-SFO market will just take a nonstop from a competitor instead as it will be lower cost/miles flown. To a MCO-SFO passengers there is less competition. As airline A with a hub on DFW will now always be more expensive and extra long connection time than airline B flying the non-stop. What if the airline B non-stop is once a day in the morning? A MCO-SFO passenger now has worst choices than before.
On a side note, if your position is a passenger flying more miles should pay more, I don’t see how you can support EAS as you are asking people who don’t fly (taxpayers) to subsidize those flights.
Last edited by seawolf; Aug 22, 2020 at 10:21 am