Charged bag fee by BA for BA operated, AA marketed ticket
Jan 2, 2020, 4:52 pm
#16
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Though I don't know enough about the DOT side of this, from a BA and oneworld point of view you were correctly charged since baggage is operating carrier determined. The relevant table is below, and the BA copy of the oneworld policy is here:
https://www.britishairways.com/asset...e-guide_en.pdf
and the BA forum thread on the topic is here:
AA/BA/AY/IB Long Haul basic unbundled / HBO fares announced
In essence a hand baggage only fare on BA means hand baggage only. But status rights for upgrades, seat selection and priority boarding are covered on BA operated flights, including for AA tickets and/or AA status holders.
That's all going swimmingly isn't it? The strange thing is that now tea is not taxed in the UK, but it remains subject to sales tax in many parts of the USA.
https://www.britishairways.com/asset...e-guide_en.pdf
and the BA forum thread on the topic is here:
AA/BA/AY/IB Long Haul basic unbundled / HBO fares announced
In essence a hand baggage only fare on BA means hand baggage only. But status rights for upgrades, seat selection and priority boarding are covered on BA operated flights, including for AA tickets and/or AA status holders.
That's all going swimmingly isn't it? The strange thing is that now tea is not taxed in the UK, but it remains subject to sales tax in many parts of the USA.
Jan 2, 2020, 5:21 pm
#17
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: BOS
Programs: AA PP, DL PM
Posts: 2,085
The US DOT rules generally state that the baggage policy of the "first marketing carrier" shall apply to the entire ticket unless the first marketing carrier decides to apply the baggage rules of the most significant marketing carrier. So in any case, the OP should have gotten the AA TATL fee schedule for bags if you book AA codeshares and the first flight you flew was an AA TATL flight. The DOT also says that the bag fee schedule has to be the same every time you check in, e.g. had you managed to book an AA TATL flight to Europe, a 24h+ stopover, then an intra-Europe BA flight on the same ticket, you would be charged according to the AA TATL fee schedule ($60 for the first bag in BE) when you check in with BA for the intra-Europe flight.
It gets complicated when you bring frequent flyer program waivers into the mix. The DOT says the airlines can make their own rules about when they waive a bag fee, as long as when you are charged a fee, you are charged according to the fee schedule of the FMC. So the airlines are free to say that if you are on a BA-operated flight you don't get any frequent flier waivers.
However, the DOT also says that the bag fees displayed on your receipt are binding, as long as they are in compliance with the above rules. So if you have a receipt showing a $0 bag fee, you should be charged a $0 bag fee. I would not expect BA agents to know this rule and know to waive the bag fee when presented with the receipt though.
The previous thread on this issue on an AA codeshare operated by AS seems to indicate that refunds on erroneously charged bag fees should be filed with the operating carrier that charged the fee, which makes sense since they are responsible for the check-in employees that charged the fee. However, be prepared for BA to not have a particularly in-depth understanding of DOT rules.
It gets complicated when you bring frequent flyer program waivers into the mix. The DOT says the airlines can make their own rules about when they waive a bag fee, as long as when you are charged a fee, you are charged according to the fee schedule of the FMC. So the airlines are free to say that if you are on a BA-operated flight you don't get any frequent flier waivers.
However, the DOT also says that the bag fees displayed on your receipt are binding, as long as they are in compliance with the above rules. So if you have a receipt showing a $0 bag fee, you should be charged a $0 bag fee. I would not expect BA agents to know this rule and know to waive the bag fee when presented with the receipt though.
The previous thread on this issue on an AA codeshare operated by AS seems to indicate that refunds on erroneously charged bag fees should be filed with the operating carrier that charged the fee, which makes sense since they are responsible for the check-in employees that charged the fee. However, be prepared for BA to not have a particularly in-depth understanding of DOT rules.
Jan 3, 2020, 2:02 am
#19
Join Date: May 1998
Location: australia
Posts: 5,761
But which charge is disputable?
The second charge from BA where BA said you must pay $X for the baggage fee and the OP said (under protest) OK charge that to this credit card and then received the goods/services which s/he agreed to pay for
or
The first charge from AA where s/he paid for the ticket with baggage included and did not receive the full goods/service that he agreed to pay $Y for.
I would think that the AA charge is partially disputable as they sold a service which was not fully provided.
Jan 3, 2020, 2:09 am
#20
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But which charge is disputable?
The second charge from BA where BA said you must pay $X for the baggage fee and the OP said (under protest) OK charge that to this credit card and then received the goods/services which s/he agreed to pay for
or
The first charge from AA where s/he paid for the ticket with baggage included and did not receive the full goods/service that he agreed to pay $Y for.
I would think that the AA charge is partially disputable as they sold a service which was not fully provided.
The second charge from BA where BA said you must pay $X for the baggage fee and the OP said (under protest) OK charge that to this credit card and then received the goods/services which s/he agreed to pay for
or
The first charge from AA where s/he paid for the ticket with baggage included and did not receive the full goods/service that he agreed to pay $Y for.
I would think that the AA charge is partially disputable as they sold a service which was not fully provided.
I would dispute the BA charge and suggest they go after AA for the money as they issued the ticket including baggage. This is between AA and BA with the OP caught in the middle, this is not his/her problem.
Jan 3, 2020, 2:14 am
#21
Join Date: May 1998
Location: australia
Posts: 5,761
The fact that it is an issue between AA and BA does not differentiate which carrier should reimburse the traveller. It may not be his/her problem but s/he has to dispute one of the charges and which one to dispute is determined by which charge did not deliver what was charged for and to me the AA charge fits that description. The BA charge delivered exactly what BA promised to provide for that charge.
Jan 3, 2020, 2:22 am
#22
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1. I would demand from BA directly to refund the baggage charge!
2. If BA does not comply, I would file a DOT complaint against BA and turn in the original e-ticket receipt with the indicated baggage allowance.
3. If BA does not comply, of course also initiate a chargeback.
2. If BA does not comply, I would file a DOT complaint against BA and turn in the original e-ticket receipt with the indicated baggage allowance.
3. If BA does not comply, of course also initiate a chargeback.
Jan 3, 2020, 5:47 am
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
The US DOT rules generally state that the baggage policy of the "first marketing carrier" shall apply to the entire ticket unless the first marketing carrier decides to apply the baggage rules of the most significant marketing carrier. So in any case, the OP should have gotten the AA TATL fee schedule for bags if you book AA codeshares and the first flight you flew was an AA TATL flight. The DOT also says that the bag fee schedule has to be the same every time you check in, e.g. had you managed to book an AA TATL flight to Europe, a 24h+ stopover, then an intra-Europe BA flight on the same ticket, you would be charged according to the AA TATL fee schedule ($60 for the first bag in BE) when you check in with BA for the intra-Europe flight.
It gets complicated when you bring frequent flyer program waivers into the mix. The DOT says the airlines can make their own rules about when they waive a bag fee, as long as when you are charged a fee, you are charged according to the fee schedule of the FMC. So the airlines are free to say that if you are on a BA-operated flight you don't get any frequent flier waivers.
However, the DOT also says that the bag fees displayed on your receipt are binding, as long as they are in compliance with the above rules. So if you have a receipt showing a $0 bag fee, you should be charged a $0 bag fee. I would not expect BA agents to know this rule and know to waive the bag fee when presented with the receipt though.
The previous thread on this issue on an AA codeshare operated by AS seems to indicate that refunds on erroneously charged bag fees should be filed with the operating carrier that charged the fee, which makes sense since they are responsible for the check-in employees that charged the fee. However, be prepared for BA to not have a particularly in-depth understanding of DOT rules.
It gets complicated when you bring frequent flyer program waivers into the mix. The DOT says the airlines can make their own rules about when they waive a bag fee, as long as when you are charged a fee, you are charged according to the fee schedule of the FMC. So the airlines are free to say that if you are on a BA-operated flight you don't get any frequent flier waivers.
However, the DOT also says that the bag fees displayed on your receipt are binding, as long as they are in compliance with the above rules. So if you have a receipt showing a $0 bag fee, you should be charged a $0 bag fee. I would not expect BA agents to know this rule and know to waive the bag fee when presented with the receipt though.
The previous thread on this issue on an AA codeshare operated by AS seems to indicate that refunds on erroneously charged bag fees should be filed with the operating carrier that charged the fee, which makes sense since they are responsible for the check-in employees that charged the fee. However, be prepared for BA to not have a particularly in-depth understanding of DOT rules.
If it's true that the system requires them to charge when it shouldn't, and the only recourse is to request a refund, this should be reported to the DOT even if BA easily grants the refund. A mistake by an agent is one thing, but a repeated, systematic violation of DOT regulations needs to be remedied -- the DOT will almost certainly instruct them to fix this. However, I suspect that this was more likely to be an agent who simply didn't know how to do it and was too busy (or couldn't be bothered) to ask for help from someone who did.
Jan 3, 2020, 6:10 am
#24
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,506
I ended up filing the complaint with BA, hope to hear from them shortly.
The agent at TXL specifically told me that he sees what the receipt says and he would have reversed it if he could but was unable to. There was an agent on either side of him who also appeared like they were unable to do anything but shrug. No queue at the time that needed to be addressed besides myself.
I did not consider the DOT complaint regardless of refund, I think I will do that given the situation of "we can't override it even if you have that receipt".
BA is a large company that operates all over the world. I'm sure that they are well aware of all the regulations that they are required to comply with, particularly in the US (where they do a lot of business). Whether the front-line agents know is a different story, but of course that's true with US-based airlines as well.
If it's true that the system requires them to charge when it shouldn't, and the only recourse is to request a refund, this should be reported to the DOT even if BA easily grants the refund. A mistake by an agent is one thing, but a repeated, systematic violation of DOT regulations needs to be remedied -- the DOT will almost certainly instruct them to fix this. However, I suspect that this was more likely to be an agent who simply didn't know how to do it and was too busy (or couldn't be bothered) to ask for help from someone who did.
If it's true that the system requires them to charge when it shouldn't, and the only recourse is to request a refund, this should be reported to the DOT even if BA easily grants the refund. A mistake by an agent is one thing, but a repeated, systematic violation of DOT regulations needs to be remedied -- the DOT will almost certainly instruct them to fix this. However, I suspect that this was more likely to be an agent who simply didn't know how to do it and was too busy (or couldn't be bothered) to ask for help from someone who did.
I did not consider the DOT complaint regardless of refund, I think I will do that given the situation of "we can't override it even if you have that receipt".
Jan 3, 2020, 10:30 am
#25
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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Generally speaking BA is fairly quick on this one, since it's not unusual for there to be issues in this area, given that outside the UK very few check-in agents are employed by BA (and that applies to TXL). Some locations see high staff turnover too. Consequently I'd be hopeful of they will soon ask for your bank details. That doesn't address what will happen next time.
Jan 3, 2020, 10:46 am
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 20,987
A couple of things here.
Basic Economy for elites works different on AA and BA.
With AA basic economy, elites on basic economy can not select a seat in advance, but do keep the free bag benefit.
With BA basic economy, elites keep the privilege of selecting a seat BUT have to pay for bags.
<snip>
Basic Economy for elites works different on AA and BA.
With AA basic economy, elites on basic economy can not select a seat in advance, but do keep the free bag benefit.
With BA basic economy, elites keep the privilege of selecting a seat BUT have to pay for bags.
<snip>
This sort of confusion about extra charges will have happened before. Will be people who book these fares and do not realise the flight booked is acodeshare until at the airport/check-in
Jan 3, 2020, 1:00 pm
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,506
With such a close relationship between AA & BA on transatlantic flight having different perks for status on these low cost basic would seem a failing. Would be simplifier if were the same. But then would have to follow on for AA domestic and BA domestic/EU flights.
This sort of confusion about extra charges will have happened before. Will be people who book these fares and do not realise the flight booked is acodeshare until at the airport/check-in
This sort of confusion about extra charges will have happened before. Will be people who book these fares and do not realise the flight booked is acodeshare until at the airport/check-in
Jan 3, 2020, 1:44 pm
#28
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Washington, DC
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Posts: 3,198
This is one area where alliances have failed to meet expectations. I wish each alliance had rule commonality for baggage, advance seat selection, fare types, and so forth, especially given the degree of codesharing now in place. There's no way the average passenger, or even a frequent one, can possibly remember all of these rules, so I'm guessing most just pay and move on. I have a similar complaint about hotel chains. One needs an advanced degree in mathematics to know if you get a free breakfast at a Marriott property. I'm semi-joking of course, but I do have to carry a matrix with me so I can remember what I'm entitled to at each of the 10+ brands. I feel like baggage rules and such across alliances are similar. It shouldn't be this difficult.
