[Archived] AA oneworld & Other Airline Partner Award information, rules (2015-2018)
May 15, 2015, 2:54 pm
#151
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: American AAdvantage
Posts: 1,045
Non-QF DFW-SYD Routing
In the past, I've redeemed miles on QF for DFW-SYD in J and F. Would it require more miles to travel on CX? As an alternative to either DFW-SYD(QF) or DFW-LAX(AA)/LAX-SYD(QF), I was thinking of DFW-HKG(AA)/HKG-SYD(CX).
Thanks.
Thanks.
May 15, 2015, 3:07 pm
#152
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: AA LT PLT 3 MM+, BA (very) Blue, CO nobody
Posts: 2,640
Yes - it would be 2 separate awards on CX via HKG (but easier to get than QF direct). However, if you are going to go via HKG, why not fly CX all the way instead of AA/CX - I would. Also, if you do go via HKG, you are allowed a stopover as it is 2 awards.
May 16, 2015, 1:06 am
#153
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: WLG/BKK
Programs: TG*G, NZ*GE, QF G, Accor Gold
Posts: 10,195
MH drops a flight on OW J award - who is supposed to advise me?
I have a ticketed OW J award BKK-AKL-BKK on a mix of MH, CX, and QF QF in late may. Specifically
BKK-KUL(MH785)-HKG(MH432)-AKL(CX197)
AKL-MEL(QF156)-KUL(MH148)-BKK(MH796)
I travel in about 1 week, and when reviewing the various sectors on ExpertFlyer I noticed the tha final sector KUL-BKK MH796 22:15-23:20 wasn't showing at all. I tried a dummy single sector booking on MH's own website and again the flight is not listed as operating. The flight seems to operate until May 28, then ceases thereafter. The next available flight is teh following morning, and there is some J availability - but this requires an overnight in KUL, and loses a night in BKK.
This trip has been a nightmare due to mis-handling by USDM (who failed to ticket correctly), resulting in a cancelled ticket, leaving poor options at short notice with AA once miles were re-deposited.....I'm almost tempted to cancel the whole thing and buy a Y ticket!
Assuming that MH have elected not to operate this sector, is it AA or MH who should advise me. And as a follow-on, should MH provide acommodation at KUL since there is now a compulsory overnight? (similar to STPC?).
What are AA's obligations since they issued the ticket? What if I decide to cancel based on the overnight in KUL not suiting? Grateful for opinions/experiences.....Note I have yet to contact AA or MH as I'm keen to gain for some idea of my options.
BKK-KUL(MH785)-HKG(MH432)-AKL(CX197)
AKL-MEL(QF156)-KUL(MH148)-BKK(MH796)
I travel in about 1 week, and when reviewing the various sectors on ExpertFlyer I noticed the tha final sector KUL-BKK MH796 22:15-23:20 wasn't showing at all. I tried a dummy single sector booking on MH's own website and again the flight is not listed as operating. The flight seems to operate until May 28, then ceases thereafter. The next available flight is teh following morning, and there is some J availability - but this requires an overnight in KUL, and loses a night in BKK.
This trip has been a nightmare due to mis-handling by USDM (who failed to ticket correctly), resulting in a cancelled ticket, leaving poor options at short notice with AA once miles were re-deposited.....I'm almost tempted to cancel the whole thing and buy a Y ticket!
Assuming that MH have elected not to operate this sector, is it AA or MH who should advise me. And as a follow-on, should MH provide acommodation at KUL since there is now a compulsory overnight? (similar to STPC?).
What are AA's obligations since they issued the ticket? What if I decide to cancel based on the overnight in KUL not suiting? Grateful for opinions/experiences.....Note I have yet to contact AA or MH as I'm keen to gain for some idea of my options.
Last edited by Thai-Kiwi; May 16, 2015 at 1:21 am
May 16, 2015, 1:45 am
#154
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,586
MH isn't going to pay the hotel bill for the night
If there is availability the next day, then should be easy to get AA to rebook the sector - you will have the option to cancel and redeposit without penalty and can then purchase a revenue ticket if you prefer
If the flight is not operating anymore, then there is a limit to what AA can do
If there is availability the next day, then should be easy to get AA to rebook the sector - you will have the option to cancel and redeposit without penalty and can then purchase a revenue ticket if you prefer
If the flight is not operating anymore, then there is a limit to what AA can do
May 16, 2015, 2:00 am
#155
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: WLG/BKK
Programs: TG*G, NZ*GE, QF G, Accor Gold
Posts: 10,195
MH isn't going to pay the hotel bill for the night
If there is availability the next day, then should be easy to get AA to rebook the sector - you will have the option to cancel and redeposit without penalty and can then purchase a revenue ticket if you prefer
If the flight is not operating anymore, then there is a limit to what AA can do
If there is availability the next day, then should be easy to get AA to rebook the sector - you will have the option to cancel and redeposit without penalty and can then purchase a revenue ticket if you prefer
If the flight is not operating anymore, then there is a limit to what AA can do
It would seem a weakness in the ticketing system if this didn't come to light until check-in!
Cheers, TK
Edited to add:
Called MH. The staff member said the final sector was cancelled since there wasn't 2 hours between flights at KUL (note EF say MH-MH Intl-Intl MCT is 60 mins. When pressed on the fact that MH weren't even operating the flight according to their own website (and others), the agent checked and confimred the flight wasn't actually being operated, and that I needed to contact AA for a re-booking on another flight. The comment about not meeting MCT seems complete BS to me....
I'll contact MH first to see what is happening with this sector, then confirm that AA can also 'see' the problem, and finally make a call on either taking the later flight on MH or cancelling and buing a revenue ticket.
Last edited by Thai-Kiwi; May 16, 2015 at 2:35 am
May 16, 2015, 2:30 am
#156
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,586
Hopefully you would be contacted.
Given that MH796 was the last flight of the day and MH148 arrives after the previous service, I cannot see what MH would be able to do for you for travel that day
If the next morning's service to BKK has availabity that may be the best option for an award ticket from MH
Depending on the day of week there is a RJ flight at 22:10 which , if it has award availability, may be a good option. Alternatively , perhaps check for other routings such as AKL-KUL or AKL-HKG for award availability
Given that MH796 was the last flight of the day and MH148 arrives after the previous service, I cannot see what MH would be able to do for you for travel that day
If the next morning's service to BKK has availabity that may be the best option for an award ticket from MH
Depending on the day of week there is a RJ flight at 22:10 which , if it has award availability, may be a good option. Alternatively , perhaps check for other routings such as AKL-KUL or AKL-HKG for award availability
May 16, 2015, 2:46 am
#157
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: WLG/BKK
Programs: TG*G, NZ*GE, QF G, Accor Gold
Posts: 10,195
Hopefully you would be contacted.
Given that MH796 was the last flight of the day and MH148 arrives after the previous service, I cannot see what MH would be able to do for you for travel that day
If the next morning's service to BKK has availabity that may be the best option for an award ticket from MH
Depending on the day of week there is a RJ flight at 22:10 which , if it has award availability, may be a good option. Alternatively , perhaps check for other routings such as AKL-KUL or AKL-HKG for award availability
Given that MH796 was the last flight of the day and MH148 arrives after the previous service, I cannot see what MH would be able to do for you for travel that day
If the next morning's service to BKK has availabity that may be the best option for an award ticket from MH
Depending on the day of week there is a RJ flight at 22:10 which , if it has award availability, may be a good option. Alternatively , perhaps check for other routings such as AKL-KUL or AKL-HKG for award availability
It is self evident that if MH have decided not to operate the last flight of the day, then there'll be no same-day service to BKK with them. That leaves the ball with AA/myself. My question was when/how the customer would be notified. My AA account shows the booking as ticketd and 'OK'.
Similarly, many (all?) other routing possibilities have been checked daily, as I preferred not to fly MH, but nothing showing any J/Y availability. Thanks for the RJ tip, but they don't fly on the day concerned.
Cheers, and I will work on it tomorrow. The Hurricanes-Chiefs match now much more interesting at present......
May 16, 2015, 3:56 am
#158
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,586
The MCT issue is indeed wrong - it would never have been ticketed in the 1st place ; if the flight is not operating, I would contact AA asap whilst availability next day exists and others who may have been displaced may be rebooking
I would have expected AA to send an email that there was a problem with the flights so that you could contact it for rebooking
I would have expected AA to send an email that there was a problem with the flights so that you could contact it for rebooking
May 16, 2015, 12:26 pm
#159
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The KUL city
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat, TK Elite+
Posts: 2,663
MH is subbing and consolidating 2 737s to 1 777 between May 30 and June 6 (not too sure why a lot of 737 flights are canceled that particular week considering it's school holidays in Malaysia), but my friend who traveled last year and had his late night KUL-DPS canceled and he was put on next morning's flight and MH provided accommodation. Not too sure how this has changed now tho with MH's current financial situation.
May 17, 2015, 12:50 pm
#160
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Germany / Thailand
Programs: M&M/S SPG livetime gold, but not running behind status & points anymore! Now only book value for $
Posts: 3,090
It would be enough to limit the routings to " no backtracking ", may be with the exeption, where no oneworld direct Routing aply, a MPM+25% is allowed.
Which kind of logic is behind this rule ? Them only not want people to fly Europe-HKG-Indian Sub. on CX, for the lower milage, and this them already reach with the MPM+25% rule.
Or is there any other reason, why people should not fly via AUH or DOH to Australia ? From Europe it`s absolutly straight on the way.
May 17, 2015, 3:00 pm
#161
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,586
This rule is simply stupid !
It would be enough to limit the routings to " no backtracking ", may be with the exeption, where no oneworld direct Routing aply, a MPM+25% is allowed.
Which kind of logic is behind this rule ? Them only not want people to fly Europe-HKG-Indian Sub. on CX, for the lower milage, and this them already reach with the MPM+25% rule.
Or is there any other reason, why people should not fly via AUH or DOH to Australia ? From Europe it`s absolutly straight on the way.
It would be enough to limit the routings to " no backtracking ", may be with the exeption, where no oneworld direct Routing aply, a MPM+25% is allowed.
Which kind of logic is behind this rule ? Them only not want people to fly Europe-HKG-Indian Sub. on CX, for the lower milage, and this them already reach with the MPM+25% rule.
Or is there any other reason, why people should not fly via AUH or DOH to Australia ? From Europe it`s absolutly straight on the way.
Simple ( and hard to argue that it is silly rules ) is that
(a) Need to travel directly between origin zone and destination zone and
(b) has to be a routing that would be permitted on a paid fare. ( MPMs are only relevant when designated routeings are not specified )
For some destinations it is impossible ( or at least very difficult ) to travel between origin zone and destination zone directly. In these cases an exception is made
For Europe to Middle East/India , there is no reason at all to provide an exception since there is no issue going directly between regions
For Europe to South Pacific, transit in Asia 1 or Asia 2 is permitted. This provides decent options to get between Europe and South Pacific. Without the exception , would be limited to QF2/10 and BA15 from Europe to South Pacific rather than allow travel on airlines such as CX, MH and JL
It would ne nice if it also allowed Middle East as a connection point with a QR exception , which I am surprised is not allowed, but it is what it is
I am not surprised at such rules when you look at what people will try to do otherwise
May 17, 2015, 4:09 pm
#162
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Germany / Thailand
Programs: M&M/S SPG livetime gold, but not running behind status & points anymore! Now only book value for $
Posts: 3,090
Simple ( and hard to argue that it is silly rules ) is that
(a) Need to travel directly between origin zone and destination zone and
(b) has to be a routing that would be permitted on a paid fare. ( MPMs are only relevant when designated routeings are not specified )
For some destinations it is impossible ( or at least very difficult ) to travel between origin zone and destination zone directly. In these cases an exception is made
For Europe to Middle East/India , there is no reason at all to provide an exception since there is no issue going directly between regions
For Europe to South Pacific, transit in Asia 1 or Asia 2 is permitted. This provides decent options to get between Europe and South Pacific. Without the exception , would be limited to QF2/10 and BA15 from Europe to South Pacific rather than allow travel on airlines such as CX, MH and JL
It would ne nice if it also allowed Middle East as a connection point with a QR exception , which I am surprised is not allowed, but it is what it is
I am not surprised at such rules when you look at what people will try to do otherwise
(a) Need to travel directly between origin zone and destination zone and
(b) has to be a routing that would be permitted on a paid fare. ( MPMs are only relevant when designated routeings are not specified )
For some destinations it is impossible ( or at least very difficult ) to travel between origin zone and destination zone directly. In these cases an exception is made
For Europe to Middle East/India , there is no reason at all to provide an exception since there is no issue going directly between regions
For Europe to South Pacific, transit in Asia 1 or Asia 2 is permitted. This provides decent options to get between Europe and South Pacific. Without the exception , would be limited to QF2/10 and BA15 from Europe to South Pacific rather than allow travel on airlines such as CX, MH and JL
It would ne nice if it also allowed Middle East as a connection point with a QR exception , which I am surprised is not allowed, but it is what it is
I am not surprised at such rules when you look at what people will try to do otherwise
My most liked Routing is between Germany and Thailand.
With the existing rules Iam limited to (CX) FRA-HKG-BKK/HKT which is one of my top, but due to only 1 flight per day availability is very much limited in prem. cabins.
2nd, (BA) DE-LON-BKK, which is not an real option due to the high YQ and one of the most bad availability @ all in C/F, and MH does not fly anymore ex DE via KUL.
The best availability is on EY and QR via AUH and DOH and with alot of flights every day from DUS/HAM/BER/FRA and MUC to BKK and HKT.
The flights are no backtracking, and both EY and QR have published rates for the Routings.
P.S. I know, both origing ( DE ) and Destination (TH) are mainly served by *aliance. But I not choosed to " suck" with oneworld. US changed to AA and BMI DC to BA. And now people them have saved miles over many years, have to see how them can burn them. And as already said, Iam not willing to pay more than 1000 $ on fees for BA Award flights,( which is a rippoff )! With these fees some awards even not have a value @ all.
Last edited by bertheike; May 17, 2015 at 4:21 pm
May 17, 2015, 4:36 pm
#163
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,586
You can use QR to get to Asia 2 - Europe to Asia 2 is permitted via Middle East for a QR-QR connection
Airlines such a BA, MH and CX all offer direct service from Europe to Asia 2
The only real restriction that I can see is not being able to use EY
AA has had these routing rules for a long time, it is not some new invention that is now causing issues
Airlines such a BA, MH and CX all offer direct service from Europe to Asia 2
The only real restriction that I can see is not being able to use EY
AA has had these routing rules for a long time, it is not some new invention that is now causing issues
May 17, 2015, 4:41 pm
#164
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Which logic is behind this ?
My most liked Routing is between Germany and Thailand.
With the existing rules Iam limited to (CX) FRA-HKG-BKK/HKT which is one of my top, but due to only 1 flight per day availability is very much limited in prem. cabins.
2nd, (BA) DE-LON-BKK, which is not an real option due to the high YQ and one of the most bad availability @ all in C/F, and MH does not fly anymore ex DE via KUL.
The best availability is on EY and QR via AUH and DOH and with alot of flights every day from DUS/HAM/BER/FRA and MUC to BKK and HKT.
The flights are no backtracking, and both EY and QR have published rates for the Routings.
P.S. I know, both origing ( DE ) and Destination (TH) are mainly served by *aliance. But I not choosed to " suck" with oneworld. US changed to AA and BMI DC to BA. And now people them have saved miles over many years, have to see how them can burn them. And as already said, Iam not willing to pay more than 1000 $ on fees for BA Award flights,( which is a rippoff )! With these fees some awards even not have a value @ all.
My most liked Routing is between Germany and Thailand.
With the existing rules Iam limited to (CX) FRA-HKG-BKK/HKT which is one of my top, but due to only 1 flight per day availability is very much limited in prem. cabins.
2nd, (BA) DE-LON-BKK, which is not an real option due to the high YQ and one of the most bad availability @ all in C/F, and MH does not fly anymore ex DE via KUL.
The best availability is on EY and QR via AUH and DOH and with alot of flights every day from DUS/HAM/BER/FRA and MUC to BKK and HKT.
The flights are no backtracking, and both EY and QR have published rates for the Routings.
P.S. I know, both origing ( DE ) and Destination (TH) are mainly served by *aliance. But I not choosed to " suck" with oneworld. US changed to AA and BMI DC to BA. And now people them have saved miles over many years, have to see how them can burn them. And as already said, Iam not willing to pay more than 1000 $ on fees for BA Award flights,( which is a rippoff )! With these fees some awards even not have a value @ all.
You had enquired about the EY vs. QR thing and I gave you a link to the chart of allowable, 3rd zone connections here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/24702685-post9.html
May 18, 2015, 1:23 am
#165
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Germany / Thailand
Programs: M&M/S SPG livetime gold, but not running behind status & points anymore! Now only book value for $
Posts: 3,090
You had enquired about the EY vs. QR thing and I gave you a link to the chart of allowable, 3rd zone connections here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/24702685-post9.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/24702685-post9.html
Interesting that Southamerica z2/Northamerika - Africa is allowed via DOHA, but Europe - Africa is not in that list ! Which results with the only choice left is BA with it's high YQ.